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Late in June of this year, a customer comes in and asks me to come out side and look at his van that we lettered in 2006. The Oracal King Blue 751 looked like it was 10 years old. Letters curled up with the adhesive residue. Needles to say I told the customer I would redo BOTH vans asap. I called our distributor and sent the photos. A Oracal representative called me within two days. They said they didn't dispute the claim of Failed vinyl and they would issue me a new roll of vinyl and compensation for the removal & re-install. The rep told me the compensation wouldn't be as much as I would expect. I didn't expect much and I didn't get much. I haven't heard a word from them since. I asked my distributor a couple times about it and he was under the impression that the situation was taken care of by Oracal. We also re-did a sign last year, but we chalked it up to a bad installation job by the customer. He attached it to a manchered roof angle towards the sun. What bothers me most is that we had a bad roll or two. How many signs or vehicles are out there totally failing. How many of you use Oracal King Blue 751. We redid two vans. It was a mess getting the glue & vinyl off We use a heatgun & the regular assortment of chemicals. First photo is passenger side. Second photo id drivers side.
-------------------- Bob Boyd A C Display Studios Atlantic City, NJ Posts: 54 | From: Atlantic City, NJ | Registered: Nov 2001
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Wow bob, that looks like really old vinyl. I use Oracal 651, 751 and 851 exclusively, but never have I seen anything like that in just two years. I dont think Ive ever used King Blue though. At first look, it looks like they may have mislabeled the vinyl and sent you maybe the old 641 or something of the sort. Even 651 wouldnt look like that after two years. Man, I bet that was a chore to clean up and redo.
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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The Oracal representative told me that they didn't dispute my claim of failure. So that sounds like a bad batch to me. I too use 95% oracal products for vehicles & large format.
-------------------- Bob Boyd A C Display Studios Atlantic City, NJ Posts: 54 | From: Atlantic City, NJ | Registered: Nov 2001
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I'm no way a vinyl dude but judging by the vehicle's paint I would think he has been either steam cleaning or high pressure washing the vehicle daily or weekly and in general not really caring for it. Paint looks oxidized which led me to believe what I say above.
Oh well
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
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I ran into a situation last Monday concerning Oracal 751. I had ordered 3 15"x50yd rolls of white for Edge printing. When the material arrived Monday, we tried to load them onto the Edge but the stuff wouldn't fit. Seems the punch pattern were too far apart. I called my supplier and told them of the situation.
Within 30 minutes, a rep from Oracal called. Seems a mispunched batch got past quality control.
They overnighted 3 new rolls plus sent me a fourth roll for my trouble for free.
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We have been very happy with Oracal. A few years ago we had to redo a BUNCH of vehicles with a "bad batch of vinyl" from an un-named distributor that we don't use anymore and type of vinyl that we will NEVER use again! You don't want to get me started on THAT~!
But Oracal has been great! Sorry for your bad luck. I fell like your distributor should go to bat for you. We have GREAT service from our present distributors!!
-------------------- Jane Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, Il. 61764 815-844-7024 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 4102 | From: Pontiac, IL USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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There is always the chance that it wasn't the vinyl that failed, but the prep/application method.
What you use and how you use it to clean the substrate can be the cause of premature failure, no one wants to hear this but, when folks are using products not designed for cleaning or applying films, well.... Windex, prep-sol, 409, alcohol, etc.
Sometimes people say "I have never had a problem" well maybe you did but your customer never came back to tell you.How heavy does that weight on your reputation?
Using the wrong products WILL come back to bite you, maybe not everytime, but eventually it will get ya !! I have talked to sooo many sign shop owners who will NOT offer any kind of vinyl warrantee, thats because they are not sure they're work will make it thru the car wash, again, prep and application method...
I will give a warantee against curling, shrinking, bubbles, loose edges, etc, even if the job goes thru a car wash 1 hour later ! See the videos at www.rapidtac.com
Roger
-------------------- Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated 186 Combs Dr. Merlin Oregon 97532 Posts: 3020 | From: Merlin Oregon | Registered: Dec 1998
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Shoulda used good 'ol Oacal 651. . . . .never had a failure. . . .I never have trusted the higher priced 751. . . .although I just pulled off some Graphics on an aluminum panel I did 5+ yrs. ago. . . .was done with Avery Lime Green. . . .it still looked fresh & peeled off like a dream. . . almost no glue residue. . . . .that was good vynull!!!!
-------------------- Carl Wood Olive Branch, Ms Posts: 1392 | From: Olive Branch,MS USA | Registered: Nov 1999
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Scary stuff. I do think Joey is right about the van being pressure-washed, but even that should not have made the vynull lift to such a degree. Last week I went to put a roll of 15" 751C black onto my 4E, it was too big by ¼" and would not fit onto my sprockets. Love....Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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If you didn't have anything else from that roll fail, i'm betting on the pressure washing problem as well. The customer will deny it to the grave, but i've seen it personally many a time.
-------------------- Bruce Evans Crown Graphics Chino, CA graphics@westcoach.net Posts: 910 | From: Chino, CA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Oracal did not dispute that it was vinyl failure. They knew they had a problem with King Blue. They agreed to compensate me with new vinyl & removal fees, although I haven't seen anything yet. I wanted to let everyone know that it took two years for total failure and that if anyone uses King Blue be aware.
-------------------- Bob Boyd A C Display Studios Atlantic City, NJ Posts: 54 | From: Atlantic City, NJ | Registered: Nov 2001
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