I've got one that I would like to choke about half the time! I've got the Experince, Skill, and Passion. He has a check book and decent credit. Does that make him Grand Poo-Bah and me Nothing? I would walk out the door tomorrow if I could figure out a way to open a shop on my own. Plus I'd hate to dissappoint any customers that may be affected by my leaving.
How do you guys deal with buisness partners?
-------------------- Lee McKee McKee Studios Birmingham, Al Planet Earth (sometimes) Posts: 277 | From: Birmingham, Al | Registered: Jan 2003
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I'm married to my business partner, and we enjoy barbecues.
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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There is only one person I would have partnered up with but he moved south on me. He is a great Friend and that was what would have been hard....sometimes Friends are lost over business.
-------------------- Rob Larkham Sign Techniques Inc. Chicopee, Ma Posts: 607 | From: Chester, Ma. | Registered: Apr 2002
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business partnership is like loaning people money, DONT DO IT. I have seen one thats worked yet. They start out strong and then slowly the problems come....from what I have seen
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
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I started this business with an equal partner and equal investment in 1980. That investment was $1,000 from which we could buy the basics and build a screen printing shop.
We had totally different personalities and yet were both fiscally conservative. If we could build something rather than buy a new one, we'd build it. We had a great relationship and a great partnership until he died 12 years ago. I felt I lost a brother.
I realize that this is not the norm however. There really should be some kind of personality test like some of the marriage tests for potential partners.
-------------------- Bill Modzel Mod-Zel screen Printing Traverse city, MI modzel@sbcglobal.net Posts: 1356 | From: Traverse City, MI | Registered: Nov 1998
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One of my best clients is an RV dealer which is a partnership. These guys worked at the same place together for 16 years and decided together to buy the dealership. Now, many years later they still work well, camp and dine out as families.
A while back, I spent some time with one of them to "interview" him. He told me the reason it works is that they refuse to compete with each other. They each have their strengths, and thats what they work on. For instance, one is very "technical" (computers, electrical, mechanical, etc) while the other does beautiful teatious woodwork, trim, and custom stuff. They take turns waiting on walk in traffic. They are equals in the business.
Another thing they did is protect their families in the event of the death of either partner, the company pays a life insurance premium so the widow is automatically bought out with the life insurance proceeds. Genius in my opinoin.
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3484 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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If you feel this way now, it's time to tighten your belt and move on. It will never get better! You already know it's coming. Now is the time to do it. Good luck.
-------------------- John Arnott El Cajon CA 619 596-9989 signgraphics1@aol.com http://www.signgraphics1.com Posts: 1443 | From: El Cajon CA usa | Registered: Dec 1998
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Lee, I guess I didn't really offer any help, just a trip down my own memory lane. How is your partnership set up? Does you partner essentially own all of your equipment? How are the profits shared? Is money pumped back into the business or is it just split on your draws?
If you leave tomorrow, will the doors shut or can he keep it going? Essentially, are you just an employee with a "partner" title?
If you're this frustrated, talk to him about some sort of buyout schedule. If you just leave with the intention of setting up shop on your own, next week you may have an instant competitor with your own partner and his new manager.
-------------------- Bill Modzel Mod-Zel screen Printing Traverse city, MI modzel@sbcglobal.net Posts: 1356 | From: Traverse City, MI | Registered: Nov 1998
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Yep, now you know why it's "Sears" rather than "Sears and Robuck" anymore. You never really know someone truly until you (1) marry them, or (2) go into business with them. BTW, it cost Frank Fellers $7,000,000 to buy out his business partner. If memory serves me correctly the partner ponied up $100,000 about 10 years ago; that's all he did - no work, no nuthin' just the money man.
-------------------- Ricky Jackson Signs Now 614 Russell Parkway Warner Robins, GA (478) 923-7722 signpimp50@hotmail.com
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Issac Newton Posts: 3528 | From: Warner Robins, GA | Registered: Oct 2004
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Thanks for the counseling guys, I have an agreement that makes us partners in the fact that I am the "sign man" and he is the "t-shirt guy" that being said, all sign jobs work out that after the overhead is delt with the profit is split one third for me one third for him and one third for the "company" the problem lays in that he IS the company. He had a pre-existing t-shirt company for years an I came in to start the signage side of things. He has never had a partner so he feels as if it is all his. Perhaps he is right but, if I left tomorrow then he would have no sign business. Sure, he could make a pair of truck magnetics or a simple one color banner but, this would take away from his t-shirt business. I said all that to say this. I own all my own brushes and paint is relatively cheap. I own "the sign truck" and plotters can be had cheap as well. Moreover I posses the experience in sign making and the talent for design (for what its worth) I suppose a "partnership" this is not. This little rant of mine has solidified my deep down gut reaction that I can do better on my own. I want to thank you guys (even the ones that didn't reply to my topic here) If it was not for the support of letterville as a group of really great people as well as a WEALTH of information on the sign making craft I would probably be working a 9-5 job somewhere that I would hate. I also want to thank R.T. Thomas for introducing Me to Letterville, (I know he is lurking out there) Here We Go Again.... Lee McKee Owner and Operator of the newly formed McKee Signs. Wish me luck... I'll need it.
-------------------- Lee McKee McKee Studios Birmingham, Al Planet Earth (sometimes) Posts: 277 | From: Birmingham, Al | Registered: Jan 2003
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After two failed partnerships, many years ago, I finally figured out that the only "good" partnership is the one where your bank / banker is the other partner.
Banks don't try to tell you what to do or how to do it, they are only interested in the bottom line. Just like you should be too. It is a mutually beneficial goal. Both partners have the same goal... PROFIT.
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
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Lee, sounds like you are making the right move.Your gut instinct is telling you so.It's better to be self sufficient than to be unequally yoked with a bad partner, in any relationship.You'll do fine.
-------------------- Darcy Baker Darcy's Signs Eureka Springs. AR. Posts: 1169 | From: Eureka Springs, AR | Registered: Nov 2007
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On the funny side, I had a partner twelve years ago. It wasn't until we had formed that he admitted to being colour blind, and afraid of heights.
Not very helpful in the sign game.
I bought him out, after 6 months... best thing I ever did. As Fleetwood Mac said... "Go your own way"... Sounds like you are just being used, and if you can get set up with signs (made at home), letterheads, a plotter, and anything you can think of... ready to go, think about it constantly, and cover all bases. When all bases have been covered, just say "I'm outa here". Two things... try to make it when Yellow Pages advertising is open so you don't have to wait a year to be in the phone book, and get outa there on a Friday, so you can open on Monday... just have all your tools ready on Friday night... ready to go.
Good Luck
-------------------- Gregg Sydney Signworks (02) 9837 1198 Schofields NSW Australia Posts: 368 | From: Schofields | Registered: May 2007
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It's thankfully only been a year Si - Well let me ask you guys this then. I've spent the last year with him building up a nice customer base. I know all the customer very well and many of them I've either done work for before or otherwise "brought to the table". Should I approch them about doing work or would that be in poor taste. I've signed no agreement that would prevent me from doing so. I feel like they are MY customers. It's not like I'm going to try to steal away his t-shirt customers. I don't really care about halfing everything as long as I leave with at least what I brought in to it.
-------------------- Lee McKee McKee Studios Birmingham, Al Planet Earth (sometimes) Posts: 277 | From: Birmingham, Al | Registered: Jan 2003
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customers who shop at sears also shop at wal-mart.Usually they look for the best service,product and value.If you need to advertise do so. Sometimes it means knocking on doors. Around here I usually get a job or two just by going in town and visiting with folks.
-------------------- Darcy Baker Darcy's Signs Eureka Springs. AR. Posts: 1169 | From: Eureka Springs, AR | Registered: Nov 2007
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Thanks Y'all, Please ignore that last question about trying to get former customer to "come over to the dark side" After re-reading my post from yesterday I see that It looks like I'm asking someone to say its OK to be a dirt-bag to go out and seek out former clients. If they want they will find me. I'll seek out new customers. Thanks again Guys (and Gals)
[ April 30, 2008, 08:15 AM: Message edited by: Lee McKee ]
-------------------- Lee McKee McKee Studios Birmingham, Al Planet Earth (sometimes) Posts: 277 | From: Birmingham, Al | Registered: Jan 2003
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Lee, as you said, if they want you, they will find you.
In 1981, I took on a partner. A year and a half later, when I returned from a holiday weekend, I found the locks changed and the partner's son moved into my office. That very night, I had customers calling me at my house telling me they needed signs and wanted me to do them. One told me: "I've always done business with you, not your company." Without calling a single customer, I ended up with the cream of the crop of the company's accounts. Take the high road, the business will come and you'll like who you see in the mirror.
After that incident, I decided no more partners for me. I would either work for someone or they'd work for me. I made the mistake of breaking that resolve in 2001 and started working on another partnership. Shortly, I was $25,000 poorer and wiser. I'm back in the "no partners for me" mode.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5084 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Although I've never been in a partnership with anyone else, my brother (who owns a large, electric sign company) has. He opened a sign business in 1962 with another man and later took on another partner. He eventually bought out both because he was doing all the work and they were taking most of the money. It cost him a small fortunue but now the business is completely his.
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Mckee Signs it is.... The only thing we had in writing was from out original agreement over a year ago. So many things have changed since then that makes the original document not at all relivent. I have a lead on a NICE building to rent on the cheap. So We'll see what happens -L-
-------------------- Lee McKee McKee Studios Birmingham, Al Planet Earth (sometimes) Posts: 277 | From: Birmingham, Al | Registered: Jan 2003
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Monte My "partner" knows nothing of the sign trade and even less about the friends we all have here in Letterville. Besides, he knows how I feel all too well... I didn't just start blabering about at the first sign of distress. It is a daily battle with that guy. We started out as great friends, although people who obviously knew him better warned me. Now... Not so much. Today I start my first project as Mckee Signs. Even bought a biz license yesterday.
-------------------- Lee McKee McKee Studios Birmingham, Al Planet Earth (sometimes) Posts: 277 | From: Birmingham, Al | Registered: Jan 2003
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-------------------- Harris Kohen K-Man Pinstriping and Graphix Trenton, NJ "Showing the world that even I can strategically place the pigment where its got to go." Posts: 1739 | From: Trenton, NJ, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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My business partner was an accountant. He was going to handle the money and business side of things. I was going to handle the production side.
Three months later he got his ass run out of here for running two checking accounts. He's currently a resident of the Alabama Prison System serving 7 years to life.
Partners suck.
-------------------- Pat Whatley Montgomery, AL (334) 262-7446 office (334) 324-8465 cell Posts: 1306 | From: Wetumpka, AL USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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"I would walk out the door tomorrow if I could figure out a way to open a shop on my own."
Lee, did you figure out how to open your own shop between the above and the end of the thread?? There may be a lot of good advice, but bear in mind that it's all based on their experience,not necessarily what may become yours.
Take your time , and re-read what Monte said.
P
-------------------- Pierre St.Marie Stmariegraphics Kalispell,Mt www.stmariegraphics.com ------------------ Plan on knowing everything before I die and time's running out! Posts: 4223 | From: Kalispell,Mt 59903 | Registered: Mar 2000
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Well as I said I have good line on a perfect building to lease and as of now I'll be working out of the Sign Van mostly doing handpainted stuff until I can afford a plotter. Just call me a journeyman sign painter. So Yes, I've figured out how to open a shop between there and here. Wednesday was my last offical day. (Very eventfull as well, I almost had to call the cops out just to pick up my things) I've been here before and going out on my own is nothing new... It's just more stressfull the older I get. Thanks for the support as well as the cautions. Thats why I love it here.
Now, we have picked at this wound long enough... Who wants Chinese?
[ May 01, 2008, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: Lee McKee ]
-------------------- Lee McKee McKee Studios Birmingham, Al Planet Earth (sometimes) Posts: 277 | From: Birmingham, Al | Registered: Jan 2003
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the way i see your situation....with a NON SIGN INVOLVED PARTNER...is you do the work HE MAKES MONEY from you..so you arent in a partnership ..youre AN EMPLOYEE!!! i have a partner, i work with. he does mostly walls and paint. he comes to me for layouts/patterns and we do the pricing of the work together. he gets most of the money IF HE DOES THE LABOR... i get paid for my time and layouts. hes happy iam happy.....its called complimenting each others abliities. i had an INSTALLER try to be a so called partner. he came to me one day, asked how much i would charge him to do R.T.A. vinyl for signs he sold. this was back in 98....told him 4 sq. ft. for intermediate. he said ok. i told him my end was layout, cut. weed & tape...and i hand him him that. well it was good for a while. then he started bringing me SIGN PANELS he bought for these jobs and havin me STICK THE STUFF at that price....UNTILL one day he brings me a job for him.......... i couldnt cut in in vinyl, had to project layout on HIS MATERIAL then HAND PAINT to get as he wanted it. well......he came to pick it up, and really liked the work i did. he loaded it up and came in to pay me.....i GAVE HIM A BILL FOR TIME AND LABOR THAT I HAD PUT INTO THIS JOB. he liked to crap his pants!!!!!!! 1ST THING OUTA HIS MOUTH... i cant make any money on this job if i pay you that amount.... i looked at him and said, "HOW MUCH WORK DO YOU PERSONALLY HAVE IN THE JOB."? the bill i gave you is for SIGN PRODUCTION......on YOURE MATERIAL. TIME, LABOR & TALENT that i put into it. now you are learning something, and that is.... SELLING & INSTALLING signs.....is only bout 25% of the price of what youre selling ....PRODUCTION IS 75%.....now pay me..... he did and i havent seen him since)))))))))
[ May 01, 2008, 03:27 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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