posted
The following request is for Carole Bersin:
I am bidding on a large, high wall and could use some expertise. The wall is on the side of a six story building with the "ground" being the third floor roof of the adjacent building. There is an existing sign on most of the area where the new sign is to be, that was painted in the 70's and is chipping off. The wall is 40ft wide, the existing sign is approximately 40ft wide X 24ft high and the new sign would be 40ft X 40ft.
I figure I would need to power wash off as much of the old paint as possible, then apply two coats of Sure-Grip primer or similar primer before tackling the new sign. I have already had the scaffold company that I always use come out and take a look and they have recommended a swing stage at a cost of about $4500. What I don't know is the best way to transfer the design onto the wall and how to go about figuring how long it will take and what a fair price price would be. I work on a lot of walls and love Walldogging it, but I've never worked on anything that big or that high.
I am also wondering, if I do get the job, is there anyone with experience on this type of work that would like to come and work the job with me.
The photos that Bill Diaz is so kindly posting for me show the wall from a block away, the wall from the roof, the condition of the existing sign and the design for the new sign.
Thanks in advance,
Carole Bersin
[ April 14, 2008, 09:59 AM: Message edited by: Bill Diaz ]
-------------------- Bill Diaz Diaz Sign Art Pontiac IL www.diazsignart.com Posts: 2107 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Dec 2001
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Put your hand down, Mr.Meyer. You're not getting another hall pass for the restroom yet again this morning!!
P
-------------------- Pierre St.Marie Stmariegraphics Kalispell,Mt www.stmariegraphics.com ------------------ Plan on knowing everything before I die and time's running out! Posts: 4223 | From: Kalispell,Mt 59903 | Registered: Mar 2000
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The pounce pattern is made for the lettering only. Snap lines and a straight edge for the panels. On the swing stage, duct tape the snap line on the top center and drop down to the left and right to snap one line, then use a straight edge to draw the second line. then cut and roll. Have fun.
-------------------- John Arnott El Cajon CA 619 596-9989 signgraphics1@aol.com http://www.signgraphics1.com Posts: 1443 | From: El Cajon CA usa | Registered: Dec 1998
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Hire some laborers to prep the wall and prime it,...often as not it can be more cost effective,...then make patterns for the copy,...three lines of copy 1st aprox,30" 2nd aprox.75" 3rd aprox. 20" in height. use a scaled layout and draw the outside shape freehand as you paint from top to bottom,..the primary plan, for it all to work, is using a scaled layout and an architects scale to keep the measurements correct and accurate. I would plan two falls (width of the swing stage on each swing). If you've never worked on a swing stage, hire someone who has experience, this is not the place to be learning on the job,as it can be very dangerous.Be sure to secure lifelines on the roof somehow and use safety harness and rope brakes if available.
When they would still let us work on swing stages here it would only be a 3 day or less job,...we would freehand the layout directly on the wall,...weather permitting,...but that was before osha and back in the days when we could work off rope falls(block and tackle)and there was still lead in the paint.
As for bidding the job around here that job would go for about $6 to $7 a sq. ft including rigging but we have several competitors who would bid it on labor and materials and who own their own rigging,...its kind of hard to justify making over 2k a day to most customers along with some hungry competitors who will always do it for less,....Prices vary alot across the country so keep in mind these are local prices here for the Carolinas
Edited to add,.... Mike Meyer would be an excellent choice to sub this job out to if you have reservations about your inexperience on a job like this,especially if he is only an hour south,...
[ April 14, 2008, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: Tim Barrow ]
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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-------------------- Jane Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, Il. 61764 815-844-7024 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 4102 | From: Pontiac, IL USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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Yeah, Carole -- Mr. Mike's the one and only helper you'll need. He's a one man armified tornado of a painter. He will be mummified when he expires and placed in the National Sign Museum for all to behold.
-------------------- Bill Diaz Diaz Sign Art Pontiac IL www.diazsignart.com Posts: 2107 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Dec 2001
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Thanks everyone. I've put in a call to Mike, the Traveling Signman and if they go for the bid Mike will be the man with me on the job. Any other suggestions are still welcome.
Tim, I do know about the lifelines and harnesses and the scaffold company isn't going to let me near the wall without the proper equipment anyway.
-------------------- Carole Bersin Carole Bersin Painting 3527 24th Av S, Minneapolis, Mn 55406 cbersin@visi.com Posts: 211 | From: Minneapolis, Mn USA | Registered: May 2005
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Bill, I really can't see how high the ledge is or how far the building is from the street but from what I do see. I would check on an Articulating 45'- 65' boom lift and it would be cheaper then all that staging. Plus you could rig up a 8-10' ladder to put a projector on and lay it out at night (once your lift is set into position) yup Mike is the guy who I would have help me on a project like that. Go Mikey GO!!!!
-------------------- aka:Cisco the "Traveling Millennium Sign Artist" http://www.franciscovargas.com Fresno, CA 93703 559 252-0935 "to live life, is to love life, a sign of no life, is a sign of no love"...Cisco 12'98 Posts: 3576 | From: Fresno, Ca, the great USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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Wait...a second thought, after you pressure wash and seal, patterns and a scale drawing would be a little easier than working at night. and if it's deep mortar, shoot the sealer and base coat with an airless.
-------------------- aka:Cisco the "Traveling Millennium Sign Artist" http://www.franciscovargas.com Fresno, CA 93703 559 252-0935 "to live life, is to love life, a sign of no life, is a sign of no love"...Cisco 12'98 Posts: 3576 | From: Fresno, Ca, the great USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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I would tuck the cracks,and as Cisco,says, do the airless trip but using the white XIM brand of sealer. As far as setup is concerned I would have to study all of the newest types of equipment. I would have in the past set up the falls and then using a scale layout, spot the four corners with a dot of color. Then work out a line from corner to corner and start from the top and work it on down. I would definately have a good hand on board to reley on or two.
Jack
-------------------- Jack Wills Studio Design Works 1465 E.Hidalgo Circle Nye Beach / Newport, OR Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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Yup, like Cisco, the first thing I thought of was renting an articulated lift. You should be able to find one around for 750-850 bucks a week... should be able to reach up and over from the edge of the street.
[ April 15, 2008, 12:29 AM: Message edited by: Jon Jantz ]
-------------------- Jon Jantz Snappysign.com jjantz21@gmail.com http://www.allcw.com Posts: 3395 | From: Atmore, AL | Registered: Nov 2005
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I thought about an articulated lift but I'm not sure if it would reach. I think the lift would have to be in front of the three story building as it would block an alley if it were placed where you have it according to your drawing. I will look into that possibility though as it would be less expensive and much more relaxing to work from.
Dale, am I to surmise that you're soon to be a Midwesterner again.
-------------------- Carole Bersin Carole Bersin Painting 3527 24th Av S, Minneapolis, Mn 55406 cbersin@visi.com Posts: 211 | From: Minneapolis, Mn USA | Registered: May 2005
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They make a manlift that would reach it from almost anywhere on the block. The HAX150 by JLG. It has a 150' max height with a 80' outreach at 80' up. It would rent for more than $850 a week though...
Can you imagine how scary it would be to be 80 feet in the air and your machine is 80 feet over there ------>. I'd love to take that baby all the way to the top... I wonder if you can drive it from up there?
-------------------- Jon Jantz Snappysign.com jjantz21@gmail.com http://www.allcw.com Posts: 3395 | From: Atmore, AL | Registered: Nov 2005
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That's "hairy" Jon! I don't mind heights, but I wouldn't go near that thing in anything less than a VERY gentle breeze!
Does it come with it's own hammer in a quick release snatch block?
Note: For all those wannabe Walldogs an essential piece of equipment is a hammer. If you fall, you knock yerself out on the way down with the hammer. Then you don't feel the pain of landing.
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jon at 80' up I would like to think that damn thing wouldnt move at all till you dropped down at least to 20'....man what a lift.
and have checked out the prices of these units! I mean you could go out and buy a peterbilt with a 2 man bucket on it for what they sell these for
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
posted
It doesn't look like an easy set for a swing stage. An articulated lift with an 8" platform would work well here.
Flake that wall down with a good heavy scraper...caulk the major crack you show there...roll it with XIM then roll on "Traffic marking white" with a 3/8" nap roller...(drys in about 15 minutes)it's quite heavy and won't run and it will fill nearly everything and you can roll a second coat to smooth things out. forget the pattern and lay it out with a graphed out scale sketch 1' to the foot.
As far as cost "get all you can" but a good rule of thumb would be to figure all the time you think you can do it in then double it...figure in all your costs then add it to the time and take that times four. If that looks like too much it probably isn't and if it doesn't look like enough "jack it up"
Sorry I can't offer more help on pricing but this has worked for me for years.
Let us know how this turns out!
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
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