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This is not an anti-inspirational topic. But lately, the more I do, the less I want to do. Meaning, when I first started out in the sign biz I wanted to try everything. I wanted my fingers in every pie from hand lettering to sandblasting.
Now that I am getting older, and have been in the sign biz for 23 years, I no longer want to learn new things. I don't care if I ever learn to glue chip, even if I do like to look at pieces like that. I will never want to carve anything. Silk screening? Not for me. Wraps? You've got to be kidding. Neon? No way.
Last January someone called for acrylic sheets with zip-trax glued on. Sure! I know how to do that, even if I've only done it 3 or 4 times. Ended up eating the job because the trax dried up too tight together. Same month, Gemini letters. Since I know factory kerning can be iffy I decide to make my own pattern. Got a crooked letter that the customer is still complaining about.
I am not saying that I am creatively dead. I went to a pinstriping jam in February and had more fun there than I ever had at a Letterhead meet. I am getting better at designing in Corel, and have been selling logo work without ever even having to touch a sign. I like that. I like not having to lift heavy things or climb ladders.
In the past two days I have referred three clients to other shops. Why? I don't want to make and hang a huge banner for over Main Street. Too much responsibility. I know the guy who has been doing those banners for the past 45 years, I told the lady to call him. I do not want to mess with Lexan faces ever again, so I told the next caller to call the same guy. Someone emails via my site regarding pinstriping a motorcycle. I can letter anything, but I am not a strong striper. So I told him to call my friend from the World of Wheels.
It probably sounds weird that I will turn away work, especially for all the times I've whined about business being slow. But I would rather stick with what I do know how to do, and do it as well as I can, than fumble through something I don't enjoy just to make a few bucks. Life is too short. Love....Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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I know what you mean Jill. Sometimes I get da blues too but usually pull myself out of it by taking a 15 minute Power_nap while I am weeding endless copy. LOL
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There's nothing wrong with anything you talk of in your post Jill... I referred a good sized job to Phoenix this week and turned down another. I want to live too!
I think it can be good business practice to keep our work within a narrow niche of what we are good at and just as importantly of what we enjoy.
Focusing on a marrow specialized niche will make us better at that particular aspect of the trade, build our repuation and hopefully allow us to charge what its worth too.
-grampa dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8738 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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Exactly, Dan. Know how to do what you do best, which ways work best for you, love what you do, and try to make it better each time. And know when to say no. Love....Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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Grandpa Dan, You inspire me buddy. Just this afternoon my longtime employee Hortense cranked a dog sculpture out of scrap Coroplast and Ear Wax in 15 minutes!
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Me too, Jilly......... With all of the exotic programs and equipment Lat has in the studio and shop, I truly cannot run a single one of them. The programs are beyond me and I no longer have the drive to learn. They're probably the sorts of programs that most here already use. I actually used to be a lot nicer. My kids point out the differences just between now and four or five years ago. I'm not sure what happened, but my wife draws a direct correlation between the pre-cancer hormone shots into my stomach and the advent of my (her words) general bad additude . Maybe. I seemed to have lost my interest in taking on complex projects or learning new programs and equipment at the same time, more or less. Life is not only too short, its getting shorter for some of us. BTW,........ Si. How ya doin'?
P
-------------------- Pierre St.Marie Stmariegraphics Kalispell,Mt www.stmariegraphics.com ------------------ Plan on knowing everything before I die and time's running out! Posts: 4223 | From: Kalispell,Mt 59903 | Registered: Mar 2000
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-------------------- Pierre St.Marie Stmariegraphics Kalispell,Mt www.stmariegraphics.com ------------------ Plan on knowing everything before I die and time's running out! Posts: 4223 | From: Kalispell,Mt 59903 | Registered: Mar 2000
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I hear ya Jill. I've also dropped a lot of the services that were not profitable in terms of time and returns. I still have that burning desire to learn things, but I'm focusing it towards the things I really do enjoy while I still can. It's time I decided what I want to be when I grow up...hmm for that matter it is probably time I grew up. Nah, not yet.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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Why take on a job you know you're not great at doing, will aggrevate the crap out of youand chances are you won't be satisfied with the end result. If all of these things are against you, chances are the job will take to long as you're not proficient(sp?) at it and will wind up losing money in the long run.
Stick with what you know and what you like.
I know my limitations and would rather pass a job on to someone else than to have a dissatisfied customer, because I did'nt know what i was doing.
[ April 10, 2008, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: David Thompson ]
-------------------- David Thompson Pro-Line Graphics Martinsville, NJ
I'm not this dumb, it's just the paint fumes talkin' Posts: 397 | From: Martinsville, NJ | Registered: Oct 2001
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Jill, I admire that you have grown so wise. I'm glad you are choosing to do what you want, the way you want.....good going. I'm so proud to you.
-------------------- Susan Banasky Source Signs Nanaimo, British Columbia sourcesigns@shaw.ca
When in need....go directly to the "Source"!
Proud Supporter of this "Knowledge Network"! Posts: 1323 | From: Nanaimo, B.C. Canada | Registered: Oct 1999
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Know you limitations, but don't limit your knowledge.
Having the knowledge to do a job is all fine and good, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you should do it. If it unprofitable or outside of you comfort range, saying no can be the better choice. A few less headaches are always a good thing.
"Now that I am getting older, and have been in the sign biz for 23 years, I no longer want to learn new things." I can't honestly say I fully agree with that statement. Sure, you can make the leap from hand lettering to carving. It's still a big step and the beginning of experience building, but it's sometimes the little things that you may miss that would prove more valuable.
Just an example... I learned how to roll out application tape on larger signs with an empty tube from a roll of vinyl. Learned that trick in Georgia.(Thanks, Kwunchie!) Not something that's going to light the world on fire, but it certainly has made things go quicker and big runs of vinyl don't bother me any more.
You don't have to know it all...but you just might learn how to do it a little better. Doesn't hurt to keep an eye open. Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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I know what you're talking about. I enjoy learning new things but then when I look around I think, "I should just get better at what I have been working on instead of opening up another door that now I have to practice THAT new skill." But sometimes it's just FUN to try something new. As far as signs go, we give other shops work all the time! There are 4 of us and you would think we could do most jobs but there are just things we'd RATHER NOT do. We don't want to do "bucket truck work", so we don't. We aren't electricians and don't want that responsibility...and so forth. I think it is good to try to get better at what we already like to do and just stick to that. But the guys still want a router...
[ April 10, 2008, 06:16 PM: Message edited by: Jane Diaz ]
-------------------- Jane Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, Il. 61764 815-844-7024 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 4102 | From: Pontiac, IL USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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Ray, try using a mostly full roll of premask instead of the tube, more weight, more HPower! but isn't a drag to "roll in" a bit of small copy doing the roller method
-------------------- John Lennig / Big Top Sign Arts 5668 Ewart Street, Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada bigtopya@hotmail.com 604.451.0006 Posts: 2184 | From: Burnaby, British Columbia,Canada | Registered: Nov 2001
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Oh, I don't mind learning new ways to do things I like to do (like dipping the wooden end of a brush in paint to make dots) and Stevo taught me that masking trick you mentioned. Or the time I figured out (by screwing up) that a computer pounce pattern works better when cut in reverse. There are always better easier ways to do things. Sometimes we out-smarten ourselves and complicate everything. (like me and my own Gemini pattern) I meant I don't care to learn new things...like carving, glass gilding, etc. But I will never stop studying letter forms or colors or listening to my mentors. I am going to stay with what I know and love. I don't want to be a Jill of all trades and mistress of none. It's very freeing to just be the best me I know how to be and not try to be something I'm not just so I can say I did this or that, or to try and please someone who thinks I should be somebody else. I used to compete for every sign job in town, and even feel slighted when I didn't get something I bid on. Just trying to de-stress my life and focus on what really matters. Love....Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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I LOVE your point of view, Jill, & I TOTALLY agree with you!
My husband seems to want me to do EVERYthing, & I say NO WAY! He wants to do electrical signs & everything else, & I would rather refer these customers to my friend nearby, & I do already, in some cases. I just don't tell my husband!
I am getting into glass work more, & I really like doing the sandblasted ones too. I love playing with stripes, & the vinyl sure pays the bills fast. Good enough for me!
-------------------- The Word in Signs Bobbie Rochow Jamestown, PA 16134
724-927-6471
thewordinsigns@alltel.net Posts: 3485 | From: Jamestown, PA 16134 | Registered: Oct 2002
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Now you know why I want to become a full time Gigolo. I get to learn something new each and every day. While continuing to provide a great service that I enjoy.
-------------------- Harris Kohen K-Man Pinstriping and Graphix Trenton, NJ "Showing the world that even I can strategically place the pigment where its got to go." Posts: 1739 | From: Trenton, NJ, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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When I started making signs, the price was real a motivator. Now, when I'm looking at a job my attention goes to how much effort will this take. Where are the hidden obstacles, and how much fun is it going to be.
That way I'm enjoying life a whole lot better.
-------------------- Joe Crumley Norman Sign Company 2200 Research Park Blvd. Norman, OK 73069 Posts: 1428 | From: 2200 Research Park Blvd. | Registered: Sep 2001
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wow, reading this post is like a Blessing to me. I just got out of the shop. I was working on a sho-card for a custom harley that will be in a car show. I have told myself time and time agian, "No More Sho-Cards". And no more a few others things. I rather work less, and spend more time with my Hubby. Besides, I really get my kicks working on trucks. "I hear ya Jillbeans!"
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3814 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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I totally agree. No more hand lettering, no more airbrushing, pinstriping, no more glass etching for me. I have been long done with that. How can you compete with todays market and break an airbrush out. I have stopped doing racecars, dragsters and motorcycles. there is no money in it and I really get tired of the "price" mentality of the drivers/owners. Actually I just get tired of them in general. This market has taken such a turn. It has been awesome though and I enjoy the ride. Its more about he money now than fighting to be creative. I still dig holes, climb ladders and enjoy the physical part of the work. I always will. im glad Im not a storefront "coroplast specialist" Im not up for that aggravation.
Good post Jill. Yep things have changed
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
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Bruce if you lived closer I would send you all my installs! (don't do those anymore either, I was never good at those) Love....Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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I have to agree that you should do what you love most. Sometimes its hard to turn away work when you need the money, but in reality are you really making money if your struggling to eek out a profit on a job you arent proficient at?
Unfortunately sometimes the things we love to do the most become bastardized by someone who thinks that they can become the next richest man/woman in the world by doing that same work for 50 cents on the dollar.
*** Bruce you may want to call Jill and talk to her about coroplast signs. Jill is the reigning "Coroplast Queeen"
-------------------- Harris Kohen K-Man Pinstriping and Graphix Trenton, NJ "Showing the world that even I can strategically place the pigment where its got to go." Posts: 1739 | From: Trenton, NJ, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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I noticed this same thing years ago Jill. I liked it to a diamond shape (not a brilliant, baguette or pear) where you start out all excited, in an experimental mode, learning all you can, feeling your way, figuring out what you like and don't like, and pushing your personal envelope. If you start offering a certain product in your mix you'll likely get calls for more of the same. So your business begins to grow and expand; you're taking on more jobs than you can crank out. Your backlog goes from 2 weeks to 4 and the customers are getting grouchy and think that you're not giving them good service. So you reassess things, where you're at, how you got here and where your going with this crazy ride. You've tried everything you dare, and you (for me at least) filter out the stuff you don't like doing, keeping the things you do enjoy and that are the most profitable (very important!). A few months later you find that by turning away those unprofitable jobs that you hated doing anyway, you've got more time, under a lot less stress, you're making more money, spending less time in the shop, and your customers are happier because you're more responsive. That's when the diamond shape has started tapering back down. I'm doing exactly what I want to do and only what I want to do. I would love to be a million dollar a year store but I would have to take on lighted signs and that's not something I enjoy doing. I don't want to do wraps, neon, or tatoos. What I like are the quicky sticky jobs that provide great positive cash flow and low stress. I also really enjoy the digital stuff too; that sort of scratches my creative itch sometimes but I rely on my airbrush fine art for that and I don't depend on getting my art fix from the sign business. It's a good thing Jill; embrace it.
-------------------- Ricky Jackson Signs Now 614 Russell Parkway Warner Robins, GA (478) 923-7722 signpimp50@hotmail.com
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Issac Newton Posts: 3528 | From: Warner Robins, GA | Registered: Oct 2004
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I posted under one of Dans' posts awhile back about feeling abit down, direction wise, and thought that might prompt some discussion....it did abit but in the wrong way
I understand your feelings,I have been finding out as I've been getting older that maybe I'm abit ADD
I like a rush the whole time as long as it feels positive, I see lots of parallels with what Ricky describes, running behind far too much to do, and although on the one hand that's great I wanted to steer things abit in other directions.
Still not there, taking on more and more and diversifying too, which unlike others keeps my interest alive, I think it was Donald mentioned if you're not proficient leave it to others and focus on what you know, I tend to take on all sorts of jobs and not really know how we're going to do it all, but that's part of the fun, part of the challenge for me, so far its worked out, and led us into other challenges. Like the hands and some of the other larger dimensional things, the router has opened up loads of different opportunities, and lots of learning curves.
I love the variety, never get bored, and like to learn new techniques etc.
We're all different and that's great too!
Don't worry about turning away jobs, spring is just around the corner, everything changes when the sun shines
posted
Great post and nice to see I'm not the only one that doesn't want to be "Your Complete Sign Source". We are definitely more choosy about the work we do to.
It's the challenges that keeps me going. That can be fun and profitable.
I've learned so much on this forum. My work wouldn't be the same without it. And all the great folks, like yourself, posting neat work.
J
-------------------- Joe Crumley Norman Sign Company 2200 Research Park Blvd. Norman, OK 73069 Posts: 1428 | From: 2200 Research Park Blvd. | Registered: Sep 2001
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In my old age, I've gotten much pickier about what I want to do in this business.
The night before last, we had five tornados and loads of high winds in the local area--see Dick Bohrer's "BLIZZARD- wind is making work for me" post.
Although I cut my teeth in the electric sign industry, running a Skyhook and wiring in lamps, ballasts, neon, transformers, and replacing faces in pole signs, I don't have the least bit of interest in pursuing the "opportunity" around here to repair all the signs damaged by the storm.
I'd rather stick with my dimensional work and monument signs. We do letter awnings (in our shop) for some of the awning companies and will likely get some work from them but that's about it for the storm.
I did see brick subdivision walls blown down but I know my monuments are still around. They'd probably have been a good place to hide from the wind.
Edited to add: The above statement about my monument signs being a good place to hide from the wind is full of it and I apologize for making such a self assertive statement. Although they did survive the winds of the other night, there's plenty of storms that would have easily turned them into just more dangerous airborne debris.
[ April 12, 2008, 08:30 PM: Message edited by: David Harding ]
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5084 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Hmmm...When I'm Not chosing to be creative and nave fun on a job it's just another job. For a while, or actually a long while now I have really decided to do what I got into this biz to do. Not a lot of people can make that decision, except us sign guys. Are'nt we lucky to have that choice.
-------------------- Jerry Berg South Paw Sign Washington State Posts: 87 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jun 2007
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All I got to say is the hell with ladders. And Jill, I totally understand where you are coming from. Im 51 now, and happy with the things I can do signwise. Dont mind learning a new thing here and there, but I aint stressin' myself out no more. If I can make money in the comfort zone, and take care of my family, count me a happy man. Tried to learn it all years ago. Head still hurts from that.
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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Well thought post Jill! More often than not I find my business runs me, not me running the business!! You know, taking on more jobs then I can handle and not delivering on time.
With that said, I have a 3' X 5' sign a customer requested. They want it glue chipped, hand lettered, sandblasted, guilded and hung from a custom bent scrolled and forged bracket. Can I send it down your way?? I think I'm over my head on this one!
-------------------- Mark Neurohr "Ernest" Paintin' Place 141 Sunnyside Road Kittanning, PA 16201
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One of the best posts ive ever read on here in regards to us defining what we do, and why...Over the years, ive been involved in many areas of the graphics and window tint business.. have worked for a couple of full service shops, recently I've started a position in flat glass window films,, sun control, security and graphic office windows... anything other than that will be subbed out... Im so looking forward to simplifying what i offer myself to the market... wishing all a great spring...
-------------------- Del Badry philmdesign Sylvan Lake, Alberta Posts: 636 | From: Sylvan Lake, Alberta | Registered: Nov 1998
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I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed by the whole thing myself here, Jill. Burn out can really do a number on people who have such high regard for their chosen professions and subsequently, high expectations of themselves to perform well at all times. I won't go into all that has prompted me to respond(more than one reply) but there seems to be a mutually haunting echo in this hot topic that is eerie, yet comforting in its' "grounding" reality. Thank you for opening it up. You've been a great help once again!
-------------------- David C. Petri Flying Peach Custom Paint Green Bay, WI 54302 cell 920-246-7821 Posts: 79 | From: Green Bay, WI | Registered: Jun 2006
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Mabey we should call it something else . . . .'cause I know EXACTlY what you mean by turning away things you don't want to do and to me that means you have found a new UN-limited freedom to advance the real agenda-goal of being able to pick-and-choose wha'chu wanna do . . .
don'cha love it! AND yes, I DO happen to have a song for this moment in time, for this concept of comeplete control of Jilly's business freedom . . .
~~~~It's yo' THANG~~~ ~~~~Do what'cha wanna do!~~~~~ ~~~~Can't nobody tell you~~~ ~~~~Who to sock it to!!~~~~
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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Jill, I did ten years on my own. I loved it and I hated it. When the phone didn't ring I kayaked my A$$ off. When it was busy things were good. That said, I don't miss it a bit. I shut down 5 years ago, worked at Home Cheapo, re-grouped and now work for a very large commercial shop. I make more money than I did working for myself. I do a lot of digital printing which made my layout design grow dramatically. On Friday around 4:30 I stick a card in this thing called a time clock, grab my check and I go home. The headache I once had now belongs to someone other then me. Took the Family to Disney for x-mas, just recently took a month off for some shoulder surgery (beat up kayaking) and do a lot of camping in the summer. NONE of this would have happened when I was self employed. Re-channel your energy! Get Happy!
-------------------- Rob Larkham Sign Techniques Inc. Chicopee, Ma Posts: 607 | From: Chester, Ma. | Registered: Apr 2002
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