posted
As if getting more snow today wasn't bad enough. Now I can't get my truck to start. It's a 2002 F-150 4.6l. It started fine this morning, and I drove to work. I went out later to move it, and it just makes a single loud click - which has a bit of a ping to it, like the sound of a relay. Tried to jump start it, and the result is the same - a click each time the key is turned. This makes me think the battery isn't the problem. The click seems to be coming from a wiring box on the firewall (passenger side). Dash lights, radio, and other electrical seem fine. Anyone have any ideas on what it might be?
My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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No hammers my friend, it isn't the problem...problem lies inside that box, inside you should find a relay switch w/cable from battery attached to one side and another, same size going off to the starter, that's your starter relay...sounds like it's bad and the way to find out is to take a pair of pliers, open them up and use the widen handles of pliers to go from the terminal battery cable is attached to the small wire terminal on side of relay, it should spark a little bit upon contact, but not continously, if continuously, it's the wrong terminal, there's two...go to other one, but from my experience, the correct one is the closest, it should then turn motor over, starting it...but do not bang on starter!!!! It won't do anything to help, only create more problems, their cast aluminum and will break very easily, so banging on starter is OUT, FORBODDEN, NADA, don't do it!!!!
When you determine this as your problem, go to AutoZone and buy a new one, very easy to replace....cold weather probably caused it to fail, common ailment on Fords......not to worry, no big deal...good luck...
-------------------- Frank Magoo, Magoo's-Las Vegas; fmagoo@netzero.com "the only easy day was yesterday" Posts: 2365 | From: Las Vegas, Nv. | Registered: Jun 2003
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yep, recently replaced starter relay on my 91 ford van. same deal. Now she won't run again, engine lite came on. put my code scanner on it and said engine was running lean.I'm going to check my fuel filters and if that doesn't do it I'll tow it to my mechanic since he has a "real" scanner which will easily isolate the problem be it map sensor or whatever.
-------------------- Darcy Baker Darcy's Signs Eureka Springs. AR. Posts: 1169 | From: Eureka Springs, AR | Registered: Nov 2007
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No seriously, I had Fords for many years and they are indestructible passenger trucks.
Had that same thing happen to mine too...hammer worked to get it going in a pinch, but there is an issue, like Frank said, that it needs to be replaced.
I had an 88 with the straight 6, and a stick, got it with 125,000 on it sold it with 240,000 on it and the kid I sold it to committed a felony hate crime with it ( running down a minority couple going the opposite direction head-on in a 4 lane highway.) Not to be proud of that, but the things just keep going. We've got a 91 F-150 that our neighbor kid gave us when he went away to school. It only ran on 3 cyl until Paul took it apart and now is back on 6. The thing sat all summer and early winter, and we never started it. Went to start it to plow last month and fired right up. Even when we were at -20 with windchill last month, fired right away...no jump needed. My S-10 on the other hand, a garage kept truck, refuses to start when Paul takes it to work...he's got to keep a booster pak in it. Last week had to pick him up twice, since it wouldn't start!
Total GM die hard here, but those Fords never disappoint when it comes to starting!
Keep your head up!
-------------------- Nikki Goral Image Advantage Signs 4050 Champeau Road New Franken, WI 54229 920-465-4500 "Finish every day and be done with it. Tomorrow is a new day."-Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 928 | From: New Franken, WI (East Green Bay) | Registered: Jun 2007
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No hammers my friend, it isn't the problem...problem lies inside that box, inside you should find a relay switch w/cable from battery attached to one side and another, same size going off to the starter, that's your starter relay...sounds like it's bad and the way to find out is to take a pair of pliers, open them up and use the widen handles of pliers to go from the terminal battery cable is attached to the small wire terminal on side of relay, it should spark a little bit upon contact, but not continously, if continuously, it's the wrong terminal, there's two...go to other one, but from my experience, the correct one is the closest, it should then turn motor over, starting it...but do not bang on starter!!!! It won't do anything to help, only create more problems, their cast aluminum and will break very easily, so banging on starter is OUT, FORBODDEN, NADA, don't do it!!!!
When you determine this as your problem, go to AutoZone and buy a new one, very easy to replace....cold weather probably caused it to fail, common ailment on Fords......not to worry, no big deal...good luck...
I'm a Chevy guy (even though I'm in a Ranger...it's my wife's, I promise)... Magoo is dead on. Tapping on the side of a Ford started isn't going to do any good. Like he said, it sounds like the relay. I am pretty sure they are on the inner fender well, or firewall. It's pretty easy to fix, and will only cost 5 or 10 bucks.
-------------------- Mark Kottwitz Kottwitz Graphics Ridgely, MD www.SeeMySignWork.com -------------------------- Imagination is more important than knowledge. -- Albert Einstein Posts: 746 | From: Ridgely, MD | Registered: Oct 2000
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maybe its a "SOUTHERN FORD" dont like the cold))))) RELAY IS THE PROBLEM, if that aint it then you got a bad ignition switch....
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Also check the battery cable, might be time to clean them. By the way .. You can touch the two ends of the battery cables together fot a brief moment to reboot the computer. Do that before attaching cables back to battery.
Jack
[ February 06, 2008, 05:53 PM: Message edited by: jack wills ]
-------------------- Jack Wills Studio Design Works 1465 E.Hidalgo Circle Nye Beach / Newport, OR Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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Thanks so much for all the suggestions. It gives me a place to start the process of elimination. Good thing I've got another vehicle to drive in the mean time.
My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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-------------------- Nikki Goral Image Advantage Signs 4050 Champeau Road New Franken, WI 54229 920-465-4500 "Finish every day and be done with it. Tomorrow is a new day."-Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 928 | From: New Franken, WI (East Green Bay) | Registered: Jun 2007
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Russ....have almost the same machine. What did you try to boost with...a car? No can do. I've had no probs with mine....good luck and let us know what the prob was/is!
posted
I used an identical F-150 to jump it with. No difference in symptoms whatsoever. From the beginning it has made a single relay click each time the key is turned. Nothing less. Nothing more.
I cleaned the batter terminals and the connectors with sandpaper and hooked them back up. Same result - the relay clicks.
Replaced the relay, and it still clicks once each time the key is turned.
Shorted across the two large copper bolts on the relay, and I hear a smaller click down by the starter. The smaller click was probably there all along, but it isn't loud enough to hear over the relay.
Tomorrow I will see if I can get a look at the wire to the starter. The Chilton book photos aren't very helpful. At this point it seems like the ignition switch is probably ok, because it is sending juice to the relay, which is sending it to the solenoid. I'm starting to suspect the wire, or the starter itself, and possibly the solenoid.
Tomorrow it's supposed to snow again, and the truck is parked outside. Gotta love it.
My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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F-O-R-D, Fix Or Repair Daily! Had a problem with an F-250, would not start as well, several times while driving at posted speeds would just cut out and never start again. It seams that it was an electronic module under the hood that caused the problem, called my mechanic and he would come to my rescue with the module and I would be on my way! e had a box full of these used as many of his customers have had the same issue! Found On Road Dead!
-------------------- Len Mort Signmaker1.com 11 Juniper Drive Millbury, MA 508-865-2382 "A Good Business Sign, is A Sign of Good Business"(1957) Posts: 811 | From: Millbury, Ma | Registered: Dec 2006
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This might be too simple, but F-150's have a switch under the dash (passenger side) that cuts off the starter when the truck's been bumped hard enough, apparently to prevent accidental fires from the gas tank - try that first, you never know......
-------------------- www.signcreations.net Sonny Franks Lilburn, GA 770-923-9933 Posts: 4115 | From: Lilburn, GA USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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-------------------- Nikki Goral Image Advantage Signs 4050 Champeau Road New Franken, WI 54229 920-465-4500 "Finish every day and be done with it. Tomorrow is a new day."-Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 928 | From: New Franken, WI (East Green Bay) | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
thats the TFI you speak of Len... replace that along with the stator on the distributor as a set... but this will not prevent the motor from turning over..as Russ speaks of...
posted
Years ago this used to happen on my old pick ups from time to time, I used to take a screwdriver and cross over the 2 contacts on the starter itself, that used to engage the starter. I know everyones got an opinion... and Like Steve said sometimes I used to "Gently" tap the starter with a hammer, not "Bang" on it....this sometimes worked to free up the "Bendex Drive?" is that what it's called? Now I'm talking old school trucks here.. not newer ones.
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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I'm shadetree myself but sounds like starter solenoid if cables, ig switch and relay weren't the problem.you're running out of parts to suspect so you're narrowing it down eh? Isn't there somebody from Ford lurking gonna say First On Race Day?
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And as soon as ya gets it running, trade it in for a Toyota! I have 2 of them. Little speedy, my 91 PU, has over 360,000 miles on it. You can hear the little round cylinder heads banging on the top of the motor as your driving, but it still goes!
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3812 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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Russ if you can email me I will talk you through the repair.
Try turning your headlamps on, and while they're on try starting the engine. If the headlamps dont dim considerably, I would get yourself a starter, which by the way is a bitch to replace because of the bolt on the top side of the solenoid on the starter, theyre usually pretty tight from corrosion.
Ford or Chevy they're all junk, but they're both still better than a Chrysler product. Dodge Charger police cars are "falling apart" at 30,000 miles, and we can't get parts for them from Chrysler in a reasonable amount of time.
-------------------- Harris Kohen K-Man Pinstriping and Graphix Trenton, NJ "Showing the world that even I can strategically place the pigment where its got to go." Posts: 1739 | From: Trenton, NJ, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:Originally posted by George Perkins: Ford has a problem with wiper switches??? Ever drive an eighties Chevy mike? They kept producing that lame switch for years
Ford must have bought the leftovers for their 90's trucks!
Sometimes the wipers actually work when you turn on the switch, most of the time they don't. Then, for those times they don't work, it's like it has a memory of which function you wanted because at some random point in the future when the wipers do decide to turn on under their own will, it just happens to be the same function you wanted the previous week. And this really sucks when the last time you needed the wipers, you hit the washer fluid button first. Yeah, that's great, buzzing down the highway and all of a sudden your windshield is temporarily blockaded by a sheet of blue water!
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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find a local repair shop who needs lettering on their tow truck... don;t forget to post pics of the tow truck when its done.
-------------------- Ken McTague, Concept Signs 57 Bridge St. (route 107) Salem MA 01970 1-978-745-5800 conceptsign@yahoo.com http://www.pinheadlounge.com/CaptainKen
---------------------------------
"A wise man once said that, or was it a wise guy?" Posts: 2425 | From: Salem, MA | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
I finally got a chance to take a look at the starter itself. I see the corrosion on the solenoid terminals, especially at A. This is the best picture I could take in those cramped quarters. I think I saw some where B connects to solenoid as well.
To replace those wires, do you replace the entire wiring harness?
My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
The clicks signify your bendix is stuck. Electrical contacts are ok, otherwise you wouldn't get just the clicks unless the current is not enough.
The spring that throws the gear forward in the starter motor is jammed. Frozen?
Gentle tap on the starter casing might free it or try some gentle heat with a hair drier or heat gun. maybe a replacement job.
posted
OK, Russ , unless this truck is wired up in some strange way, A is your main 12v supply that comes straight from the battery. Its unswitched and its hot all the time. With that much corrosion it could well be your problem. If its coorded badly enough, no power is getting through to the starter. This could be why jumping isn't working. Disconnect from the battery first, then the starter. Take it to an auto parts store and match it up with the correct length and replace. Yours is pretty much junk.
B is the wire to the solinoid. This wire is the one activated by turning the ignition switch to start. It is only hot when turned to start. Because of that these do not corrode.
C. appears to be your ground wire. This one also comes from the battery. While you are down there taking off the other cable, it wouldn't hurt to take that one off too and clean it. While 9 out of 10 times its the hot cable, the ground can cause problems too. Many a starter has been replaced only to find out its a ground problem.
If after fixing the cables it still won't start replace the starter.......right now, my money is on that nasty battery cable.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
In the time it took to take the pic and publish to the bull board you could have removed the starter and brought it to the parts store to get it checked!!!I thought you would be telling us what you found by now.
posted
Yeah, I've been procrastinating. Work has been busy, and it's been too cold and wet for me to want to climb under there and start tearing things apart. The truck is parked outside in the snow. Hopefully this coming week I can get some help pushing it into the heated service bay at work.
My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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Russ, git r dun.I called the shops around here to get my 90 benz tranny filter changed.They wanted 200 bucks.I bought filter, gasket and fluid for less than 80 bucks and rolled around in the mud soaked in fluid for an hour.Took 3 baths but I had the satisfaction of not spending my dough with those other guys.Might of been different if they bought a sign from me.
-------------------- Darcy Baker Darcy's Signs Eureka Springs. AR. Posts: 1169 | From: Eureka Springs, AR | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
Today I was able to get the truck inside where it was a little warmer. I removed the cable connections and found that they weren't that corroded. I cleaned them anyway and put them all back. Still just the same click.
I removed the three bolts holding the starter in place, and dropped it out. It is smaller and lighter than I expected. Took it to Checker and of course it failed on their machine (with sparks). Bought new starter for about $145 and installed it. Guess what. It starts. I spent about 4 hours on it today, including trips to the store.
It helped to have various socket extensions, including a 6" and two 3". The third bolt is hidden, but it isn't too hard to remove if you have the right extension length. My little headlamp came in very handy, and safety glasses were a must. I was constantly being pelted in the face with falling debris.
So, after all was said and done, the repair cost less than $175. Not bad. I'm sure glad it's over.
My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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-------------------- Harris Kohen K-Man Pinstriping and Graphix Trenton, NJ "Showing the world that even I can strategically place the pigment where its got to go." Posts: 1739 | From: Trenton, NJ, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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Glad you got 'er started Russ.... cars can be a pain...they usually develop a problem on the coldest day of the year I've noticed. Glad it wasn't something too costly.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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