posted
Alright now that I've got your attention.. this has nothing to do with sex.
Laura's post on going back to a home based business is very interesting. How many on here used to have a store front business, but went back to being home based. How many like it? Is the Bottom line, money wise better? Also did you have employees when you were store front and did you keep the employees? Did you have any problems with council?
This is a very interesting Topic for me, after paying rent here and Taxes for 9 years totaling $400,000......Yes you read that right...$400,000 and having a staff of 3 during the winter and 6 during the summer, a home based business may be appealing to me. I would not want to be without some key employees... I have been keeping track and %90 of our business is either repeat work, and %90 of it comes through the phone or email... as a matter of fact our biggest customers have never even seen our shop...now that is something to think about.
[ January 29, 2008, 10:37 AM: Message edited by: Neil D. Butler ]
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Better check your ordinances! We wanted to have the shop at our home here in Kentucky and were told we could operate a business out of our actual home but no structure on our property. Although, many of the country folk get away with it out here, we thought best not to test the system. Actually in South Dakota we did use 1/2 of our home as work space...but clear coat and HDU dust is not the welcome home smell most people prefer.
posted
This topic has been discussed many times here with plenty of successful home based businesses weighing in.
Depending on the type of business you have (or want) it can work very well.
We've always been home based and in early years worked primarily on customer's worksites. Now we have a small acreage, am properly zoned and permitted to operate a separate building/shop on the back of the property.
We do not rely on drive by or walk in traffic. Our building is custom built to reflect the image we want to portray, both inside and out. Being home based in our case is not second best, but rather the very best solution we could hope for.
We get to build up a sizable equity in real estate and enjoy a combined lifestyle of business/personal time... not something everyone would enjoy. But it suits us just right.
We do not lease space to our business - its a personal asset and therefore not subject to capital gains if or when we sell. The business only pays the operating costs.
Our shop is a stand alone structure. Only the business office is in the house.
Because we do welding in our shop insurance regulations required us to build our shop at least 200 feet from the house and be non-flamable construction. So our building is concrete infilled styrofoam block construction. The benefits have been many... its cheap to heat in winter and stays cool in summer. And its soundproof, so noise produced in the shop does not bother our neighbors... critical!
As always do your homework when thinking about these things. Look at tax implications, local rules and regulations and such.
Properly done a business at home can be very professional and a huge asset.
Living the dream in Yarrow...
-grampa dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8738 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
After having a storefront for 5 years, I came back home 14 months ago. So funny, when we made the move and sold the building, I felt like I had failed...really. But looking back it was a huge blessing! I have sooooooo much less overhead. I am back in the building I started out in. Now, we only serve businesses, no retail.
When I drive past my competitors large shop, I feel bad because they almost live there. Their house is about a block from my parents, and you can drive past it at 10pm and they're still working. I couldn't deal with that. But, that is where I was headed...just to have a storefront, NO THANK YOU!
I have to say at this point that it was some very nice Letterheads who encouraged me to look at this as the blessing that it turned out to be.
My favorite perk is that the 3 grandkids are here when there is no school. You never get a second shot at this time in their lives.
So Laura, Neil...do what you have to do to survive and protect your investment. When clients ask, I just tell them we did it to keep ourselves competitive and to stay on top. Fortunatly my house is on a main state highway and we are zoned residential/commercial. So far I have chosen to run without a sign. But, we keep ourselves very visable in town.
As far as employees, my designer who has been with me for 7 years continues to crank out great stuff. She wanted to be a stay at home mom after she got married. So, the timing was perfect. She designs stuff and emails the files to me. We meet once a week at the local coffee house to discuss projects and other matters. We both have Nextel so it's like she's in the other room.
I never invite clients to my house. I am always willing to come to their office or to buy them a cup of coffee at the local coffee house. We are a mobile, we come to you business.
Today, I feel very blessed. This was the first time in three years I was able to give her a year end bonus. That was only possible because of my new circumstances. I might even be able to afford a vacation this year!
[ January 29, 2008, 11:47 AM: Message edited by: Rick Beisiegel ]
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3484 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Interesting read... If I was going to go home based, I would still want a seperate building close to my house, I would not want any production at all in the house, much like Dan. I would have to sell my home and find a suitable house with a big enough lot to build a nice little shop on it.. on the main Road in the community I live now, prefarably.
Any more "Former Store Front Shop Owners" who went back to Home Based?
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
This makes me feel better. Its been hard to make this decision. Once made, I felt like a weight was lifted. I don't know what its going to be like as lots of my business was walk-ins...some new customers, but many old ones. Being 30 miles round trip from home is going to take some getting used to. Things that I think about are...do I schedule so that I only have to go to town once a week...should I just concentrate on internet sales...etc.
-------------------- Laura Butler Vision Graphics & Sign 4479 Welch Rd Attica, Mi 48412 Posts: 2855 | From: Attica, Mi, USA | Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
Laura, I would suggest picking 1 day a week and making that your "out of shop" day. Try to schedule all your in-town work that day. It will cut down on fuel expenses, but also on lost time. If you have to visit 1 customer in town on 3 seperate days in 1 week, you not only spend a lot more on gas, you lose the time to travel back & forth 3 times and you also spend a lot of time getting to a stopping point in your production so you can leave & go to town.
When I had physical therapy several times a week, it killed my production a lot. There were so many things I couldn't get into before I left because I wouldn't be at a good stopping point to leave or I'd start something, then have to get to a stopping point, then have to back-track when I got back.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
I've had 3 storefront locations. My circumstances for going homebased were soley because I had a new child in my life.
My clientelle was different with a storefront. So was the way I did biz. It was long hours and employees needed to help.
Today, I work my work in around my homelife. With no storefront to cater to, it's doable. The freedom is incredible!
But knowing what you want out of your biz in the future ought to play a big part in your decision. Do you wish to grow your biz to new heights and sell it one day? Or stay with it and coast through it during retirement? More sellable in a storefront I would think.
Your biz WILL change going homebased, but it levels out. What you paid in overhead, you can now pocket that, however you will indeed loose walk-ins due to less exposure. Think about where your main funds come from and ensure you become this mobile indentity for them.
posted
I love being home-based for all of the obvious reasons, but sometimes, I still have to learn the lesson of charging the same, or even more as if I had overhead or intend to have overhead as this offsets increased power bills or more tool purchases, etc.
There's nothing like being able to check on something or work on something in the shop 'after' hours, or, as only one example, have laundry going while working in the shop . . .
There's nothing like being at home during those (howbeit infrequent) 'downtimes' such as waiting for paint to dry or the UPS guy to deliver, time which can be used for some household activity.
There's nothing like being at home when my kid gets off the bus.
There's nothing like saving gas by not having to travel to-and-from another location, and there's nothing like knowin' it's not a big deal if you left something at the house or forgot something at the shop . . . 'um . . . unless you're on a job site . . .
The only drawback I ever noticed was people stopping by at inconvenient times, but breif comments by phone take care of 90% of that - just lettin' people know where you stand on your hours and time. It very rarely happens here due to being a smaller town and word of mouth prevents people from it.
By the way you're absolutley right about few walk-ins. It's very rare now for me to even have walk-in's, but when I was in a more central location in the city I had them, not much, but more frequently, all of which affect production.
It behooves anyone to call first on every occasion of visiting, (manners are not limited to the sign industry) but in all areas of life so as not to waste ones own time trying to see people who are unavailable, or wasting the time of a busy person you've rudely and abruptly dropped in on.
In business, even simple 'tentative' appointments are mandantory.
posted
when pat whatley was teaching me how to use the computer and flexi program a few years back I noticed how some people came inot his shop and wasted 30 minutes of his time for a car tag, or a for sale sign....hmmmm. that did not seem like fun. I always thought I wanted the 10 employees, 3 bucket trucks and a shop large enough to house airplanes. I chose to keep my sanity and keep it simple. I would NEVER have a storefront now that I look back. Im have alot of freedom and Im very flexible now. I wouldnt take anything for it.
Im not in the book and dont get alot of harassing birthday banners calls. I dont have the time wasted on walk-ins and the less humans I deal with the better off I am.
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
posted
I was in business with my brother up in Ohio for 25 years. We had 3 - 5 employees, a boom truck, and 2 work vans. Our shop was about 2900 sq. ft. We had a good reputation, good clientele, and a pretty good business for most of that time.
But along with that comes the sick days, hangover days, truck breakdowns, contractor don't show up, payroll, SS, taxes, insurance, bonding, and on and on. We had an unpleasant separation and I left for parts unknown.
Finally moving here to Mississippi, we found a house on the edge of a small town that has about a 1200 sq. ft. shop about 50 feet from the house. (nice commute). It's bare bones...no heat or A/C...but has everything else I need. And since we're in a mild climate (for winter at least) it's not a problem.
My overhead is next to nothing; I work mostly by myself, although now I have my step-son living with us, and he helps me out a lot. The vast majority of my business is carried on there. I keep my computers in the house to protect them from moisture, etc., so in cold weather I schedule my days to do my computer work in the mornings, then go out to the shop in the afternoon. When the hot summer days come, I reverse the procedure, working in the house in the hot afternoons.
It's roughing it a little, but I don't mind. I love the way it's worked out. My customers come to the house at wierd hours too; but living out here in the country, I guess I just expect life in general to be a little more country, more informal.
The only big drawback is supplies. I'm about 40 miles south of Jackson, where I can buy some stuff. Most is ordered thru outside supliers, but I've been able to coax a couple of them to deliver to me so that's not bad. I try to schedule sales calls and supply runs for one day a week, so if I blow a whole day running, at least I got it all done til next week.
I wish I had done this many years ago. There's so much more peace in our lives now. It's hard to imagine how much stress you can eliminate from your life when you work independently. If I want to take my wife to lunch, or go on a day-trip with the church group...I go. If I want to work on Saturday evening, or on a holiday, I can.
Obviously, it's not all wine and roses. The monkey is still on your back to provide. But I think a lot of that pressure can be alleviated by simply living within your means and trusting God for guidance. It's definitley something to look at; I'd never work for anyone else again.
posted
I don't know but I think having a home based business guarantees you'll have less sex. The wife always says "Your always out in the shop", but its a good place to hide, there is a fridge with a few beers stashed behind the pop, and they don't really know what you are doing out there late at night. When you walk in the house about 12:00 midnight and she says "boy you must be busy", you must reply boy "I'm swamped" (even though you were working on your 1970 BMW R75/5 restoration and trying to get the pinstripe on the sidecar just ride). You crawl into bed and try to get a little busy and she says "where were you 2 hours ago go to sleep I got to get up in the morning". And if you just happen to be having sex say at 7:30am after the kids have went to school, some customer will show up and see your truck is parked by the shop and beat on the house door because your not in the shop, customer interruptis.
Not that any of this has happened to me, but I know someone it has happened to.
The Colonel 18 years of having a shop behind the house.
-------------------- Silver Creek Signworks Dick Bohrer Two Harbors, MN Posts: 236 | From: Two Harbors, MN USA | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
I think that some poeple have a home based business that involes sex. But not me.
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3812 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
I have had 3 store front locations. The last one had me doing 16 - 18 hour days for the final 5 years there. I know better than most what burn out means. I had an average of 6 employees. I'm in home now working out of my large garage in my newly built place and have'nt been this happy and content in over 20 years. I've been making signs for 33 years now. I'm blessed with the type of jobs I like (done by hand) and charge top dollar as well. I have the time to focus on doing my best and getting creative, which is best for my clients as well. It works for me.
-------------------- Jerry Berg South Paw Sign Washington State Posts: 87 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
I spent about 15+ years being home based. No overhead/ tons of tax write-offs/ very few "walk-ups"/ and a whole bunch of good benifits.
If you do good work it doesn't matter where you do it. And if you keep your regular customers happy, they will keep you happy also!
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
Wow! There a are a lot of responses that are really interesting. One thing that bothers me a little is when it is time to move on, is the Home Based Business going to be worth anything? Maybe it may be worth something to some other sign Shop, but then again, as I'm typing this, I realize that at least the money you're paying out is at least paying off the House and Shop... and that in itself could be your retirement. I just turned 49 a couple of weeks ago, and reflecting back on the past 9 years we have built up a good name and a great Clientile. We have gotten some great Customers because of our location, and some great Business experience as well.
Thanks
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Neil, I purchased land and built a 40 x 60 building just less than 4 blocks from my home.
Easy access when needed but miles away also when needed.
My home is in residential zoned so home based building was out of the question even if in the home.
If selling ever has to take place the location can be used for just about anything being that is zoned commercial.
As far as clients Dave said it all.
quote:Originally posted by Dave Grundy: If you do good work it doesn't matter where you do it. And if you keep your regular customers happy, they will keep you happy also! [/QB]
I have done work all over the state of Michigan, the north of Indiana and Ohio, and also signs in Mall of America, all through word of mouth.
15 years I still have no sign out front and I have never advertised in any way.
Because of the type of signs I do location is not a factor, but I will stand behind the sign men and women that rely heavily on walk-in fast turn around signs and signs done in large quantities. They need exposure.
Only you can make the call on what type of sign brings you the most income and what you want to produce.
Iam sure you will make a good call.
-------------------- Sam Staffan Mackinaw Art & Sign 721 S. Nokomis St. Mackinaw City, MI dstaffan@sbcglobal.net Posts: 1694 | From: Mackinaw City, MI | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Hey Neil, Having visited and seen your shop, I think the concerns in your last post are really valid. Where it sits, and with the business you do, I'd guess your shop has a pretty good resale value. Even if you do the same amount of work from your home, it's not likely to have the resale value it does where it sits. I guess that you need to weigh out what your savings in terms of being home based vs resale value. In your case could you start to build a sideline business that branches off more in the traditional skills (I think I remember you expressing sentiments about wanting to try more of that) and eventually sell Signs 1st?
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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posted
You have a great memory Kelly, and yes Lately the old ways seem very appealing to me..maybe even a router? Then I would have to visit Dan and do a workshop.
Business really has been steady, even this January we hav'nt stopped here, full crew here working and no end in sight... we must be doing something right, our supplier tells us that they are finding it slow, and so are a lot of other shops here.. I'm not saying this to bragg, Im really not.. we have to be busy to pay the bills... that's what this post is all about, no sense doing $400,000 a year, and at the end of it there really is not much money left.. I'd rather do half and make a little more.
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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Besides being a considerable savings in overheads and a large tax deduction, the conveience is unbeatable.
I have 1/2 acre property 10 minutes from town centre. A large shed and 1/4 acre back lawn with a seperate entry onto the road behind.
My studio in the house is a closed in (all glass) porch on the front of the house. We use the unused dining room for the office/cutting room.
Most of my work is regular customers "on-site" anyway. We don't have walk-in work at all and Sue runs shot-gun on the phone leaving me free to work. Visitors seldom come unannounced and are usually only coming to pick up finished work.
The trick is where to draw the line between work and home life. It's not easy at times but the flexibility is worth it. I can "shut shop" anytime I want.
As for the value of selling the business when I "Fully" retire, I doubt I have much to sell. a Most of my work is brush related and Jonsigns is ME. I have few tools-of-trade that I wouldn't use for hobbys and home maintenance. The computer systems have no re-sale value.
Apart from paint and vinyl stock, there is only the customer base. Possibly I could sell these and the related files, but was intending to pass it all on to my daughter Vicky if she wants it.
Two of my friends here have recently retired from shop fronts. Neither was able to sell as going concerns despite one being fully vinyl/print, and their shops are now occupied by other business.
You asked the question 'Is the home-based business going to be worth anything?'
It will be (is) worth something to you, the owner!
Are your future plans to sell the business someday or something? There's been quite a lot of discussion here about 'selling' a sign business, the act of which is not so much about the building or location as it is the regular, repeat customer base, or the loyal customers . . . uh, there's a whole 'nuther subject . . .
In the financial arena, say in the eyes of the bank, or other lenders, a home-based business is worth whatever assets you have invested in the business - the building, the tools and euqipment and the income generated. So there's no worries about 'worth' if you have stuff to work with, and your workin' with it, and yer generatin' income.
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