posted
Well at 37 years old now I have been attending Letterhead meets for about 10 years now, and yes to alot of guys that go I am still a 'kid' but at the same time I have hosted or co-hosted now 7 Mass Mayhem events. I really can't help but notice a change, not only in the topic of discussions at these meets, but the quantitiy of people in attendance, the costs of hosting, and the effort of many to bring this group together year after year, for a purpose that use to seem so clear. Rescently I have noticed new purposes coming into the equation, with the Wall Dogs going into a small town, and seeming to revitalize the entire towns economy and pride with there mural painting, paint slinging weekend visits, or a group of pinheads gathering for a charity auction, raising 10s of thousands of dollars for charity in a weekend long panel jam. It seems what started as a casual gathering of fellow craftsmen gathering for their own benifit had evolved into something that benifits many more than just the folks painting. I want to stop for a moment and thank everyone who has put there blood sweat and tears into a meet that has not only raised awareness to the trade but has truly helped the community. And a special thanks to Steve & Barb for this forum to help promote them.
[ January 07, 2008, 10:26 AM: Message edited by: captain ken ]
-------------------- Ken McTague, Concept Signs 57 Bridge St. (route 107) Salem MA 01970 1-978-745-5800 conceptsign@yahoo.com http://www.pinheadlounge.com/CaptainKen
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"A wise man once said that, or was it a wise guy?" Posts: 2425 | From: Salem, MA | Registered: Apr 1999
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Looks like yer finger is on the trigger.... Capn'.
Jack
-------------------- Jack Wills Studio Design Works 1465 E.Hidalgo Circle Nye Beach / Newport, OR Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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Ken.. Being a "newbie", I won't try to say I know all about this subject, having been online only a short while.
I have met some terrific folks at these meets. Some are destined to be lifelong friends..(I hope).
The walldogs are the best to me, but that's only because it's more natural to me, to paint large-scale stuff with a fitch or cutter. The first brush I ever held in my hand, was a fitch.
But going to meets has exposed me to people and abilities that I had never seen up close. Oh sure, I knew pinstripers existed, and airbrush artists, but they were few and far between, in my neck of the woods.
It was only by getting off my butt, and saving up for a trip, that I got to see some REAL artists at work. And for that I am forever grateful.
The impact of all this openness is still out for the jury...but I believe it's all very positive in the long run.
Hope to meet you some day Ken...
Jeff
[ January 07, 2008, 05:22 PM: Message edited by: Jeff Ogden ]
-------------------- Jeff Ogden 8727 NE 68 Terr. Gainesville FL, 32609 Posts: 2138 | From: 8827 NE 68 Terr Gainesville Fl 32609 | Registered: Aug 2002
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No this isnt a Hassle Fiasco style rant, but heres a hint; keep an eye on the future live meets page...
-------------------- Ken McTague, Concept Signs 57 Bridge St. (route 107) Salem MA 01970 1-978-745-5800 conceptsign@yahoo.com http://www.pinheadlounge.com/CaptainKen
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"A wise man once said that, or was it a wise guy?" Posts: 2425 | From: Salem, MA | Registered: Apr 1999
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Ken, Letterheads is the very best thing that has happened to the sign industry. For many years I would rather attend a meet than go on vacation. The experience and friendship is priceless. The feeling of doing good at a walldog meet is very special. To see all the great talent there is in this and other countries is better than going to a museum. Now how about the future? It seems as though the industry is evolving into a vinyl industry and less and less people are learning to hand letter. The computers have taken over and the skills are fading. Even all those excellent carvers are being replaced by CNC machines. All in the name of progress. Bill
-------------------- Bill Riedel Riedel Sign Co., Inc. 15 Warren Street Little Ferry, N.J. 07643 billsr@riedelsignco.com Posts: 2953 | From: Little Ferry, New Jersey, USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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Ken, As you well know, I am nothing but a "sign groupy", but that said, I must confess that some of the most enjoyable times I have had over the last six years have been at meets. Seeing what "could have been" has a touch of sadness to it. I can also say for sure that I will never miss a meet that I can afford to go to. My personal opinion is that as the vinyl part of the business expands, the highly skilled sign man/woman will start to get premium prices for the type of professional work that they do. The stinger is that many do not "market thier wares". It may be that some part of each meet might include a serious bull session on marketing the brush, chisel, striping skills etc. to the type of client that can afford and demand that work. Just a thought.
-------------------- William "Irish" Holohan Resting...Read "Between Jobs." Marlboro, MA 01752 email: firemap1@aol.com Posts: 1110 | From: Marlboro, MA | Registered: Dec 2001
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I attended my first meet in 1992, in Cannonsburg, PA. Since then I've been to dozens of meets and hosted a couple, been a project leader for three Walldog events, and I've seen some really great things - and some things that are disturbing.
One of the things I see is that one of the major topics of discussion, at many of the live meets, is what happens here in Letterville, or on chat. That's fine, up to a point, but it begs the question - why are we traveling long distances and spending money to do so, to talk about cyberspace? What bothers me about it is the comments - many of them negative - that are made about various BB regulars who don't happen to be present. Maybe that's just human nature - but I don't remember that kind of stuff from early meets (pre-Letterville), and frankly, it turns me off from wanting to attend many of the live events.
I'm fully aware this criticism is not going to be welcomed, but the fact is, this stuff goes on - a lot - and I'm not the only person who has found it less than appealing. But somebody had to say it, so I'll take the hit.
Most of you who know me, know the passion that people like myself, Mike Meyer, and a lot of others have for hand-lettering - but we aren't getting any younger, and I'm resigning myself to the sad fact that our generation will be the last to practice this craft, and that it will die with us. I used to believe the Letterhead movement would not let that happen, but I'm not at all convinced of that anymore.
There is still a lot of good things about this movement, but I believe that it needs to go back to being about sharing skills and learning from each other, instead of degenerating into just another social gossip-fest. If the people who attend aren't there to improve their abilities, or to take the sharing of traditional skills seriously, what's the point?
Otherwise, my fear is that the Letterhead movement, as we've known it, is becoming irrelevant, and in doing so, doomed.
God, I hope I'm wrong.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Cam, why that happens I believe is because this place links most of us. It's the one thing we all have in common without even having to meet each other first, so there's something to talk about.
I hear much more positive than negtive about the site. I think it's a matter of whom you are talking to. Generally, the topic will sway momentarily to touch on a troubled issue, that's human nature to go over something that moved the masses in either a positive or negative way. It's no different than talking about the weather or who is running in politics. We speak about things that made a difference in our day.
I wouldn't let the gossip ruin the experience for you. Pick and choose your friends, just like your customers. It's what I'm chosing to do.
Now, if we ourselves tend to be the main topic of conversation.. well, you're on your own there! What got us there ought to be looked into further would be my take on it.
There's always negativity around us. It's what we chose in our own lives that makes the difference. It's not our concern how someone else chooses to portray themselves or carry on at a letterhead meet. Their day of reckoning will indeed come.
posted
A Letterhead meet benefits everyone from the attendees to the economy of the area in which it is held. The only person to get burned out is usually the host, but for some odd reason they usually decide to do it again.
When I first went to a meet it was a mind-blowing experience, like a shot in the arm, and also it was wonderful to find others like myself. That was in the days before computers, and one found out about the meet thru trade magazines. Some still do.
With the advent of Letterville, the face of the meet has indeed changed. We do know more about each other than before, it can't be helped. Often I've gotten a first impression of someone via the Internet that changes upon meeting them, both good and bad. Yes there is more gossip at meets but we are all human and humans behave in that manner.
But I don't go to a meet to sit around...I go to puke out panels. And there is still quite a lot of that going on. A meet can cause a vynuller to lay hands on a brush, even if it is just to learn a faux finishing technique. A meet can encourage creativity. A workshop at a meet can get us on track with better business habits. A meet can light a fire under a teenager who was brought along by parents who thought they'd be bored, and teach them new respect for those parents. There are lots of ripples that come from a meet and sometimes they ripple for longer than you know.
And it is still beyond cool to see a first-timer's face at a meet when they get that glazed look in their eyes...not from beer.
PS Cam, I remember watching you and your cronies hoisting a ladder to the post office in Mazeppa at dusk far more than any gossip I heard there. Well, except for the bit about Juanita!
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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Cam, nothing beats drinking beers with the mayor of Mars, Penn. at 12 in the morning while painting a spaceship hot pink. Now c'mon....those were good times! Or being the only one (along with Spider) to stay behind and help clean up and Jill letting us take about 50 cans of oneshot a piece. THANKS JILL!
For the record, I haven't been to a meet in 5 years for many of the reasons mentioned by Cam.
[ January 09, 2008, 09:00 AM: Message edited by: Robert Larkham ]
-------------------- Rob Larkham Sign Techniques Inc. Chicopee, Ma Posts: 607 | From: Chester, Ma. | Registered: Apr 2002
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Interesting observations Cam that I will both agree with and disagree with. I went to my first meet in 84. The gossiping was present then, and at every meet I have attended since. The gossip back then was much more of an "inside thing" or it revolved around the locals at the meet but it was definitely there. The internet and Letterville have merely opened things up more. As far as hand lettering dying out you may be a lot closer to the way things are. There will always be a demand for hand lettering, it's just not going to be a great as it used to be. There needn't be but a few newbies at any given meet trying to learn, the demand just isn't there. Take a look at pinstriping which happens to have been in vogue over the last few years. There are tons of new folks learning and plying the trade. There are, I would say more newbies around than old vets. The opposite is true as far as hand lettering goes. The demand is low and there are still a lot of old school folks around. As we older folks die off and the supply and demand evens out, more newcomers will show up at the meets to learn. As long as I have been going to meets, one thing has remained constant. Most folks stand around and talk, some crank out panel after panel and some get involved in learning some new skill. It's up to the individual. Having said all that I do understand some frustrations that come from going to meets. You sit and spend hours with somebody trying to show them how to hand letter only to see them a few years later and they are at the exact same point you left them at years before
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
Cam touching on us perhaps being the last hand lettering generation almost makes me cry. What a sad piece of truth. At early meets we'd share home made tools for scoring stripes in gold on windows made from popsicle sticks that we'd lubricate with saliva, or be walking around with quill ferrules softening in our mouths. There was little talk of technology and we all knew what each of the many varnishes were used for. There were no paint masks and the debate was often whether good design was of more importance than stroke quality. We could spend hours analyzing a letter and the numerous modifications possible. There were still the old timers there to share their history and snicker at us for using electric perforators and pre mixed paint. We knew how to cut in letters and wait for things to dry. It was a different time in history.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6714 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Great note Ken, thanks. I'll keep an eye out for your updates.
As the business continues to change, Jill's comment, "A meet can encourage creativity" really hits home. Although I still lack the brush skills, the inspiration I get from a meet is incredible!
I'll admit that I don't make the time or effort to apply the brush skills I learn at a meet. However, I do try to apply the creativeness and inspiration obtained from a meet in nearly all of my designs.
In the eyes of many, the future may look bleak for hand lettering. It can be difficult to compete in this "I want it now (and cheap) society. However, I feel that, with the right business skills, a good signwriter can not only survive, but flourish and prosper - keeping the craft alive and growing. The only issue is that a lot of signwriters and many potential students have the same mentality as our clients.
One good thing though, is the future is not written and anything can happen.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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wait a minute... if Cam is as old as I think he is, aren't I the next generation? cuz I look at Ted Kiely (23) and Jessie Smith (26) as the 'next' generation... which means it hasnt died with your generation or even with mine.
although this post (like so many here) has detoured from the original intent, many of you make valid points and observations. My post was just to observe that not only are the popsicle stick tricks and the saliva techniques still being shared but now it seems the community is is also benifiting from it too. Arties party was held at the Syracuse Nationals hot rod show, 25 pinstripers and letterheads showed up, not only did we have a great time with old friends and traded tips, but we also raised 36k dollars for orphaned children, seems like a win-win thing to me. I left that meet with not only the buzz from going to a meet, but a real sense of pride for what we acomplished.
signed, one proud pinhead, "Capt. Ken"
(and yeah I can hand letter too)
[ January 09, 2008, 12:21 PM: Message edited by: captain ken ]
-------------------- Ken McTague, Concept Signs 57 Bridge St. (route 107) Salem MA 01970 1-978-745-5800 conceptsign@yahoo.com http://www.pinheadlounge.com/CaptainKen
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"A wise man once said that, or was it a wise guy?" Posts: 2425 | From: Salem, MA | Registered: Apr 1999
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I tried competeing doing old school work. Many here beat me up whenever I spoke about this very same subject. I got sick of trying to compete with the quickie stickie shops and closed up shop. I now work for a very large commercial shop where the only paint work we do is outlining a carved sign or the owner still pinstripes. I'm happier now. I'm making more money than I did in my shop. Sorry to say, the future is a digital world. I fought it tooth and nail and now I run a 54" printer most days. The skills I had a few short years ago are slowly going away.
[ January 09, 2008, 12:21 PM: Message edited by: Robert Larkham ]
-------------------- Rob Larkham Sign Techniques Inc. Chicopee, Ma Posts: 607 | From: Chester, Ma. | Registered: Apr 2002
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I have been fortunate enough to have attended about 15 Live Letterhead meets since 2002. I have thoroughly enjoyed each and every one of them. I have met some incredibly talented people in all areas of the sign and design trade.
I feel I have learned way more from others than I have managed to teach anyone at these events. I believe every penny I put into a meet comes back at least 10 fold. I too have spent my vacations from my "other" job heading to whatever meet I can afford. I'd go to all of them if I could! And I hope to see you at one soon.
I mean where else can you watch the likes of Mr. Rod Tickle workin' his magic with an airbrush. Or sit down next to Grampa Dan in a street dance no less and make some wiggly lines together. Or how about having Mr. Mike Meyer teach you his patented "Projecto-paint in the Dark" technique? I've taken gilding lessons from "the Griz" and Lettering Lessons from Superfrog. And been able to sit down to a good old breakfast with my Buddy Jeff from Gainsville. I love every minute of these things!
The best part of the Meets, in my opinion is to sit and watch someone with years and years of experience help a youngster paint their first panel. Or help them pull their first pinstriped line. Sometimes I get too busy at these things and I don't help out as much as I'd like to. The Letterhead Spirit is alive and well and it's up to us to carry it along. I guess it's as strong as we want to make it!
I have some great friends back in the Midwest that have helped me out more than once at these things too...and I think they caught a bit of the Letterhead bug themselves in the process.
The picture below was taken at Kurt Gaber's Brush Bash 2 in Chippewa Falls, WI, summer 2006. I was hanging around after the event trying to finish off a few stray murals and I needed help! I called up my friends and they drove about 40 miles over to help me and asked nothing in return.
The young lady on the left was 9 years old at the time, and her sister to the right was 13. Mom was in the middle and I was slacking off and taking pictures. Actually we "colorized' this whole mural in one afternoon between us.
Not bad for a days work...
I've heard people say they shy away from the Walldog events because they sound like too much work.....Heck, it's the most fun you can have if you ask me......I pay good money to do it whenever I can. And I hope that what is produced brings a bit of joy to those who happen to pass by it....
posted
well, I gotta say sumptin here...Ken, I understand where you're coming from. It is a good post because it is bringing out the thoughts of people who have a passion for Letterhead Meets, and we all have been changed by a meet in some way or another. I can relate to Cam's response 100%, because I was at the earlier meets before computers. Those meets were very special, even magical. It was like getting to run on the field with the Big Leagers, and those big leaguers would stop and talk to YOU, and SHOW YOU the way to do things, and even go out to eat with a group or individually! (I'm not saying it doesn't happen these days,) but what I am getting at is the hard work and seasoned knowledge you work so hard to achive, and the idols that you have seen in the Magazines, were right there painting with you! Hey, that's HIM! hey, that's HER...from SignCraft! Upon returning home after each meet I attend, even today, I get a charge and think about some way I can do something different, or how I can now stop by and say HI at yet another Letterheads shop while traveling!
As to Donna's response, I agree, you can look on the positive side and yes there is alot of negativity that you cna chose to avoid. Well said. I applaud the likes of Pierre Tardif, Dan Sawatsky and Shane Dunford starting these new workshops for hand crafting-sign making get-togethers. If ya think about it, apart from Meets and Wall Dogs, it's all we got!
The Sign School I graduated from here in Minnesota back in 1980, is now defunct. "not enuf interest" and "too expensive to maintain the class"....because it's all digital now. No, not ALL, but how many sign shops call a sign school asking if one of the kids knows his way around the paint shop? They are not demanding a sign "Painter" they are asking what "program" they are running, if they know photoshop-corel draw and it goes on and on. I agree with Bill Reidel, it's progress, and it's not going to go away.
The sad reality is, yes, the hand crafting work is going away. Can you still "make it" doing hand lettered signs? Yes you can. It is much,much harder today to make it, but yes, you can. The everyday sign makers bread and butter demands prints/sketches/concepts/renderings/proofs RIGHT NOW!!! Even the fastest sign painter can't crank um out that fast..the point is, the industry is not "heading this way" it 's already here! LED Billboards are now TV commercials. It is really sink or DROWN. The "Mom and Pop's" stores are few and far between, and when they want a sign, even small towns are starting to write regulations on how they can be done and what materails, and what you MUST have to install them. It is forcing alot of sign shops to close up. Sad but true. I'm not being negative here Donna, this is the real deal. When you are already settled in a community and your children are in school and you can't just drive 40-50 miles to another sign shop to make enuf money to barely cover your gas to drive to the job...people are up against the wall, and it hits all businesses. More and more businesses buy their own sign making machines and have a shop flunky do the vynull, and we all know what that looks like, and then he's making Calvin ****ing on everything from Ford logos to who knows what.
To say this industry has changed is a big understatement. It went into the toilet if ya ask me. I do like to use the technology for certain things and would not be without it, and I too was slow to change because I have such passion for the hand skill, but man, things are really different. The common man doesn't know what looks good anymore.
I have been very slow this last year. Yeah, a whole year! Never happened to me before, I don't know how to act! Thanks to some very great friends who I meet at LETTERHEAD meets, I manage to keep the place running somehow...I am forever in debt to these folks. Speaking of passion, I will never give up. This is who I am and what I do. Plain and simple. I will be that old decripid sign "painter" that will be over in the corner of a VFW or Legion hall willing to help out another person who needs it. WHy? because it's the right thing to do.
As far as meets in the future. ouch.
I don't even se them going back to the way they used to be. Sorry to say, but it seems the younger set of people today, and this isn't ALL of the Younger set, I see many at the meets giving it a go!, are fixated with the ipod, text messaging scenario that makes them into zombies. Quite scary if ya think about it.
ANyway, if future meets REQUIRED attendees to bring a project, and force people to interact, and swap panels and open back up again, maybe, maybe they have a chance. Like any fun and organized organization people belong to, the same old guys doing the work gets old. New, fresh blood needs to breathe new life into the movement, and that's all it's ever been,....a movement, a non-governing body that keeps it's main focus on the NOVICE. TO help the NOVICE.
When that aspect is lost, forget it.
Like anything that is worth fighting for, the Letterhead Movement is not dead, I will remain forever in the ranks of skilled people that will ALWAYS take time to show others what OTHERS have shown me. It's that simple. I can't wait to paint with poeple like Rod Tickle and Dale Manor again!!!!
Thanks for reading my whine. I just had to vent, hope I didn't **** anyone off, it's not my intention. Someday, I WILL have a meet in Mazeppa again. Why not? I'm still above ground.
Good Night one and all....
-------------------- Mike Meyer Sign Painter 189 1st Ave n P.O. Box 3 Mazeppa, Mn 55956
We are not selling, we are staying here in Mazeppa....we cannot re-create what we have here....not in another lifetime! SO Here we are!!!!!!!
posted
Well as a survivor host.... Moose Jaw was a wonderful experience for me that made all the planning nightmares worth it in the end. Watching Tony Segale teach his daughter Erin and his mentee Megan how to execute a mural was heartwarming. Seeing Sal and Tramp work with Lee and make him into a very decent pinstriper in just a few days was cool. Watching young 14 yr old Erin teach the other young ones how to do doming and gold leaf as well as seeing her explain the mixing and matching of the Keim paints was great. We had a good cross section from the most talented to the completely newbee and everyone seemed to work and share and learn together. Everyone worked and played very nicely, and there was definitely a LOT of interest in murals, pinstriping, gold leafing and handlettering from the young. Don't be underestimating them! It was important to all of the hosts that the meet be a valuable learning and sharing experience and I think that we worked hard to keep the emphasis on that aspect. We had some great workshops from some very talented folk and I don't think anyone left feeling their money was not well spent. The Piesta Resistance for me was being told that our meet was like the meets used to be years ago.
The one common comment I have heard a lot is that people would rather just make their own entertainment than be entertained. For that reason we didn't plan any entertainment and from what I could tell that was to everybody's satisfaction.
[ January 10, 2008, 02:28 AM: Message edited by: Kelly Thorson ]
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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Something that Mike touched upon also seems worth considering further. Back when this started, we'd go to gatherings and bring a project idea. Sometimes we'd bring the glass or a pattern or a board, sometimes just the idea. We'd share the idea and allow others to help us develop and evolve it to what we walk away leaving. Somewhere along the way things changed to group project pieces, where something is provided to everyone and they get to do some things to personalize it. The creativity and individuality has been removed another step.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6714 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I had waited until now to ensure our decision was sound. This post is an appropriate start:
Folks: The Hudson Hullabaloo is cancelled.....
Not enough juice in my head to sum up all the why's but bottomline: It wouldn't have been a successful enough venue to make it warrant the additional time and $ required. Thankfully we have plenty of options to choose from this year with other meets.
I'll start another post so I'm not hi-jacking this one. That's honestly not my intent.
Thanks to all the supporters, mentors, and friends that backed our interest.
-------------------- Matthew Rolli AdCraft Sign&Design Hudson, WI Posts: 280 | From: Hudson, WI | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote: The one common comment I have heard a lot is that people would rather just make their own entertainment than be entertained. For that reason we didn't plan any entertainment and from what I could tell that was to everybody's satisfaction.
I think Kelly touches on a very important aspect of the "modern" Letterhead meets.
When I was planning the Looney meet, I had given thought to bringing in live entertainment, a catered Saturday afternoon pig roast and had even worked on a plan to do a large mural in town...good ideas and not too hard to organize, but I honestly felt it would both distract and detract from original my goals...to do a meet that was free for attendees, allowed my guests to do whatever you wanted and keep the core reason we gather in focus...to share and learn. I tend to "shoot from the hip" on things and wanted very much to bring that aspect into the meet...fewer rules and restrictions.
As Ken mentions, there's always a good feeling when you give to others and incorporating charitable work is always a plus. But lest we forget, when you decide go to a meet, or even more so when you host one, that is in itself a charitable act. You are giving others your time and efforts for the opportunity to learn and grow.
In recent years, one thing has changed...the days of the Letterhead meets being know to only a few are long gone. Steve and Barb have changed that forever with this website. Yet, while we tend to gripe about the infusion of technology in this line of work, here we sit using it to keep in contact, share ideas and methods and discuss how our traditions are fading away.
This is why live meets are more important today than ever. Good work is not defined by whether or not you use paint, but by the passion you put into it. The opportunities to share that passion personally are few and far between, but meets have that at the core...always...whether it be showing a kid how to pinstripe, discussing router settings or leafing a glass panel. The tools we use have changed, but technology aside, it still hasn't changed that there are those who excel with them who are willing to share their experience. Meets have evolved in that aspect as well.
One part of that evolution, too, is that meets have become more of an event than they used to be. In recent years, it seems that hosts are almost expected to "put on a show", hiring bands, tying in with local events, incorporating large scale projects, etc. All fine and good if you can absorb the costs as a host, but when does the "show" lessen the intent?
Matt, Long ago you decided to host the Hudson meet and I've no doubt you put some hard work into it since then. Today, I see you have decided not to do it. Times and circumstances change for each of us, and like the way meets and the Letterhead movement has, we need to adjust to make things better, not worse. Best to you.
my 2 bits... Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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Well, I am glad this post has 'evolved' well, usually something like this gets a few opinons and loses its original intent. Its nice to see people posting there 2 cets and nobody firing back with 5... thats the magic of a letterhead meet, everyone leaves with some new inspiration and that inspiration is different for everyone. the last meet I was at Bill Rediel and Ted Kieley worked on a panel together, the age gap between them is about 60 years, but the shared the love for hand lettering and everyone there shared it with them. My hope is that in 60 years Teddy will be working on a panel with some kid that reminds him of that day with Bill way back in the day...
-------------------- Ken McTague, Concept Signs 57 Bridge St. (route 107) Salem MA 01970 1-978-745-5800 conceptsign@yahoo.com http://www.pinheadlounge.com/CaptainKen
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"A wise man once said that, or was it a wise guy?" Posts: 2425 | From: Salem, MA | Registered: Apr 1999
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My first actual meet (which we did not consider a meet) was with 2 other sign painters. While we were at a pizza joint drinkin' some brews and slammin' pizza, there came about a challenge. We decided after getting somewhat skunky that the next thing to do was to head for one guy's shop and knock out some 2'x 4' panels. So for the next few months we would gather and do panels or pin stripes. It got old after the sixth or seventh time. There was no one else to bring in from close by so those meets were tossed. That was back in 75'.
Jack
-------------------- Jack Wills Studio Design Works 1465 E.Hidalgo Circle Nye Beach / Newport, OR Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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Although I’ve been to many Letterheads meets over the last quarter century, I am no hand lettering expert as Raymond Chapman will testify.
I feel hand lettering will never die off–there are some things that can only be accomplished by it and others that can be done more efficiently by that means. A century and a half ago, every town had a blacksmith. There are still blacksmiths today, but far fewer, and they are in more of a specialty niche market. I think that is the future of hand lettering.
When I go to a Letterheads meet, I rarely work on panels, although I did get caught with brush in hand at Cincinnati a year and a half ago. I mainly float all over, observing, talking, listening, sharing, filing and storing what I see for use in my own way of designing and building signs. I wish I could hand letter but I don’t have the time to put in to become proficient at it. I have to run a business and support a family and I also spend many hours a month on volunteer projects that would have to be sacrificed for me to learn. What I experience at a live meet does come home and get used, although possibly in a different manner than others would.
When the Signmaker was introduced, I had two sign painters working for me. To some extent, they were relieved that they no longer had to labor over tedious amounts of copy on pool rules signs and could spend more time on the higher end jobs, although they were worried about vinyl making inroads there as well.
When digital printing arrived, I was relieved that I no longer had to spend time weeding the tedious amounts of copy on pool signs or setting up to screen print one-off jobs. More recently, rather than printed vinyl laminated to a panel, I can get it imaged directly on the substrate, freeing more time and opening up additional material options.
There’s no telling what the next innovation will be, but I feel hand lettering skills will always be useful somewhere, although the market has been shrinking.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5084 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Jack's post made me smile. He describes the way I like to imagine the very first Letterhead meets. The Original Letterheads were young apprentices obsessed with their craft and the desire to share it.
My first meet was in 1983. There were die cut vinyl letters available, but everything was about handlettering and paint. The Gerber and computers were still a few years away.
Since all of us were already doing handlettering, we were all excited about learning other aspects of the business.
The "original Letterheads" were very much into glass gilding, alphabets and techniques that reflected the best of our past. I was into the layouts of Chester Cunningham, sandblasted signs, and anything that might help me improve my small sign business. Everyone seemed to be interested in pinstriping! Anything on this subject was jam packed.
Whenever I hear comments that there is no bitching, grumbling, and so called gossip at live events, I have to wonder if I was at a different meet than the commenter. Anytime you put people together, this sort of stuff happens. Although I have never been in on them, I like the sex scandals myself.
At my first meet, there were all sorts of secret meetings taking place. The gossip was that money meant for the meet had disappeared. And pinstrippers! There is just no way you are going to get a bunch of these characters together without egos bumping up against each other. It's just the way it is.
It's been 25 years since that first meet. We've seen the meets evolve over the years. By 1985, the Chicago bunch were hosting huge meets. Some of these meets were held in hotels instead of sign shops. They were more structured and better organized. I enjoyed these meets. We were all under one roof and the party went on all night.
We hosted the first Canadian Letterheads in our shop here in Fergus around 1987. I assumed everyone subscribed to sign magazines, and were following this Letterhead thing like I was. Not true. In the end, we called over 100 shops and ended up with around 30 people. Everything was free. Nothing fancy. Just coffee and donuts.
Meets continued to grow. 2 day meets turned into 3 day meets. Behind the scenes there was a desire to make each meet better than the one before. Better food, entertainment. It was great! At a meet in Welland, Ontario, over 100 unregistered people showed up! The host was actually able to donate a big cheque to the school that helped host the event.
But things were changing. In the early years, "big names" like Mike Stevens, Bob Behounek, Dusty Yaxley, Keith Kneitch...the list goes on and on, all paid their own admission and lodging. We were all there as equals to share our knowledge. There might have been some perks or "comps", as we call them today, but it was nothing like today.
I'm not going to pass judgement on this new trend, but it does cost money. Some seem to feel we need Big Names to attract people to meets. It's been my experience that today's big names were once just names the same as you and me. We all have something of value to share. Enough said on that subject.
I often wonder where all the old Letterheads have gotten to. Many of the familiar faces of the past are missing. Why?
Ask around and you will get a variety of answers. Some just got burntout. The initial excitement of our youth got lost in the daily struggle to raise a Family and pay the bills.
A few are bitter about the computer and today's trend towards instant everything. The sign painter was once a magician. The Public was truly impressed to watch us do something very few could do. The computer took that away to a certain extent. Buggy and harness makers must have felt the same.
At the end of the day, I think Letterheads is alive and doing well. This website has grown, but it is still run by the same couple that started it back in 1995. We're still doing all we can to get to as many live meets as possible. I don't believe you can actually be a Letterhead without attending a live meet!
I suggest we go back to basics. Let's take a closer look at the reason all this started and get our priorities right. There's nothing wrong with buying a few burgers and hotdogs, breaking out your BBQ and inviting the locals out for a good old Letterhead meet. If it ends up costing you a couple hundred bucks, the satisfaction far outweighs the cost.
[ January 10, 2008, 09:54 PM: Message edited by: Steve Shortreed ]
-------------------- Steve Shortreed 144 Hill St., E. Fergus, Ontario Canada N1M 1G9 519-787-2673
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Some good responses here, Steve, we HAVE gone back to basics. People don't wanna take the time. They want INSTANT this and that. Even David Harding's post tells it all..David says.."I was relieved that I no longer had to spend time weeding" (refering to digital prints.) You can hand letter David, anyone can. But more importantly, you have other skills to bring to the table, and those skills could be taught to another Letterhead that had no idea what that skill is, or how to make it work in their business.
I never did comment on the gossip that goes on here and around a meet....it's gonna happen, I think I feel the same as Cam on this subject, that the idea of coming to share sign ideas and techniques should be first. Even this web site sometimes gets "OFF TOPIC" more than I would care for, and I have been slapped down for my comments, rightfully so. I can take it.
Steve and Barb do a great job, and it IS a place where you can come to inform people and get almost instant results, I don't know what we would do without it. Thanks you guys.
Last year there was no International in the U.S. and now this year no International. Maybe we need some time to re-group and return to the way a meet should be. Whatever that is.
no offense Mr. Harding.
-------------------- Mike Meyer Sign Painter 189 1st Ave n P.O. Box 3 Mazeppa, Mn 55956
We are not selling, we are staying here in Mazeppa....we cannot re-create what we have here....not in another lifetime! SO Here we are!!!!!!!
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No offense taken, Mike. I don't know where I'd be if it hadn't been for the Letterhead movement. At Mike Jackson's meet in 1981(?), I felt like the blinders were taken off, never before had I seen such marvels. I've been trying to soak up everything I can ever since to use in my own way and I hope I can give back to help others in theirs.
I appreciate your comment about "other skills to bring to the table". Although I would be next to useless in helping someone with hand lettering or pinstriping questions, there are areas of technique, design, and material use that I have expertise in and I get great satisfaction out of sharing them in the Letterhead spirit.
I really enjoyed the time we spent visiting at Fred's meet a couple of years ago and hope to do it again this March, however, I already have two trips planned that month and will have to carefully look at the time budget.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5084 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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quote:The Original Letterheads were young apprentices obsessed with their craft and the desire to share it.
As someone who now chooses to host workshops instead of meets (after hosting one small meet) the above statement still applies... although you can omit the word 'young' (except at heart)in my case.
The only constant in life is change... and I suspect the Letterhead movement is just like life.
No matter what else changes I still have the passion to learn as much as I possibly can and to share what I discover with others who also this same passion.
-grampa dan
[ January 11, 2008, 03:40 AM: Message edited by: Dan Sawatzky ]
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8738 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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One of the things making it difficult is the overwhelming time, effort and expense that goes into hosting what I would call a general, open-invitation meet. I did that back in 2000; we hosted about 100 people - and out of that, maybe 25 or 30 pre-registered. Anyone who thinks its not a major PITA to plan an event where 75% of the attendees show up unannounced, try it sometime. And that's only a part of the many issues that come into hosting a meet.
I think the future of the movement is going to be in small, invitational seminar events, where the focus is on specific skills. On the other hand, the Walldog events, IMO, are a great combination of approaches - an attendee doesn't have to be highly skilled to participate, everyone has fun, neat projects get done, and funding and organization is at least partially handled by the host community.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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What bothers me about it is the comments - many of them negative - that are made about various BB regulars who don't happen to be present. Maybe that's just human nature - but I don't remember that kind of stuff from early meets (pre-Letterville), and frankly, it turns me off from wanting to attend many of the live events.![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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And that's only a part of the many issues that come into hosting a meet.
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