posted
Hi, Sonny's post about fees for a sketch got me thinking about what should be included in a design fee and how to take control of any customer expectations from the very beginning.
Say a customer pays the fee and you do your best to understand what they want and the price range they want be to in and then when you show them the design you have come up with they say "That's not really what I had in mind. I want you to come up with another one". I am not talking about fine tuning but a wholesale redo of the design.
How do you take control from the start and what points are the most important to be aware of? Do you put it in writing and have the customer sign?
Any advise based on hard earned experience would be appreciated.
Thanks, Pat
-------------------- Patrick Sweeney Terre Haute, Indiana Highline Signs Posts: 40 | From: Terre Haute, IN | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Here's what we do, whether it's right or not.
Most of the time the client is in my small showroom where I can show them the type of work that we do. Photographs and samples on the wall make the process a lot easier.
Usually the two of us can narrow in on the "look" they have in mind, along with a ball-park price range.
The price I quote for the design normally includes two rough sketches (one if it's not a very large project). The customer understands that the fee includes these ideas and one revision if necessary, but not a wholesale starting over type tweeking process. They are also told that any revisions after that can be done for a fee of $100 an hour. It's amazing how fast they can make up their mind at that rate.
At no time do they stand over my shoulder and say, "let's see what it would look like in pink".
Upon their approval the final payment for the design is made and it becomes their property. We then move on to the production stage. They receive a CD with the design in several file formats.
Very rarely have I experienced someone taking the design and going somewhere else to have it produced, unless it's for T-Shirts or such, that we don't do.
With this understanding upfront before any work is done, both I and and client know what to expect. Most of the time the agreement is verbal, although a trail of emails may make it more official.
This is based on the hard earned experience you mentioned.
I've been through enough of the folks who say, "Just start drawing some things up and when I see something I like I'll let you know."
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
I have them fill out a creative brief or I will fill it out for them while we talk (after an agreement is signed) and make sure they sign off on it. Then I limit concepts to 2-3 and revisions up to 3 times. After that, I charge an hourly rate. If I design it to exactly what they wanted and needed and they don't liike it, I have the creative brief to back me up....of course if I miss the mark, I will revise as needed.
-------------------- Rick Chavez Hemet, CA Posts: 1539 | From: Hemet,CA U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
I try to discuss as much as possible with them upfront as to their tastes, purpose of the sign, etc.
The design fee includes 2-3 initial designs. Then we look at those, discuss what they do & don't like, etc and a final version is created. Anything beyond that is charged extra because if it goes to another round, it's either because they didn't openly discuss with me during the 2 previous conversations or they are one of those people who simply cannot make a decision. The final version may need some minor tweaking (like 5 minutes) to which I say "eh, tell ya what, I can do those minor changes without charging you for extra time" and they're happy.
Sometimes the 3 designs include what they wanted, what I think they should have & one in between. Sometimes it's 3 ideas that are all mine because I have so many ideas for their project.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged |
I do a very fast thumbnail in front of them to show I understand what they want.
Designing something professional takes time, I'll email a scaled design if the budget looks good to them. Most of the time you're talking to the decision maker & get the go ahead.
It takes a certain degree of sales ability.
We do designs for repeat customers without question.
-------------------- Michael R. Bendel Bendel Sign Co,. Inc. Sauk Rapids, MN Posts: 913 | From: Sauk Rapids, MN | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
-------------------- Ryan Culbertson The Sign Shop at Quick Copies Greenwood, SC
Rock and Roll means well, but it can’t help tellin’ young boys lies. Mike Cooley - Drive By Truckers Posts: 453 | From: Greenwood, South Carolina | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
My design fee policy to this point has been inconsistence and that is why I am trying to think it through.
Most of my work comes from cold calling or referals and involves replacing an existing sign with a similar design or making a new sign based on a variation of a design I have already done. So most of the time it is a simple matter and I don't feel there is enough involved to warrant a fee.
But because I cold call I can run into someone who will ask me to come up with some new ideas: "Let's see some of your ideas". That's when I have to discuss a fee because we all know where that leads. They will want to see another and another and end up saying maybe next year. So fees, for me, are a way of qualifying the prospect and then covering time and expenses.
Having said that, one of my biggest jobs ever came from a cold call where I had a strong feeling I would get the job with a good design and a professional looking presentation and they were under a time constraint and a fee would spook them. I just did one design and then tweaked it a couple of times after I got a signed order. So I guess it comes down to gut feelings and rolling the dice sometimes.
In the future I need to be clearer what a fee includes and I am going to limit it to one plus a couple of minor changes. That'll be my policy until my next prospect when it may be something completely different. How's that for consistency?
Thanks for the replies.
[ November 17, 2007, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: Patrick Sweeney ]
-------------------- Patrick Sweeney Terre Haute, Indiana Highline Signs Posts: 40 | From: Terre Haute, IN | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
As some of you know I am not in the Sign Game anymore. Doing sketches are one thing! 3 story sketches first then refine 2 of them on approvals, and finish the final at $350.
Now working in the 'Digital Display Industry' I have to break the images into 'Time and Space' pricing.
Still-Photo images. Flip over images. Filmed images. Animated/Illustrated vector images.
Pricing to the customer on 'these ones' can be more then a Nightmare! Design Work,Image royalties,Trademarks,Modeling and releases.
So in the end we have to assure ourselvies or the customers of the final product and the reasons to charge on a time base.
[ November 17, 2007, 05:43 PM: Message edited by: Stephen Deveau ]
-------------------- Stephen Deveau RavenGraphics Insinx Digital Displays
Letting Your Imagination Run Wild! Posts: 4327 | From: Lower Sackville, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Jan 2000
| IP: Logged |
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic