posted
I've seen quite a few past posts that claim they send the customer packing. Too much copy, low budget, nephew design, short time limits, & whatever else seems to perturb.
Is this really happening?
Bottom line... most of us here own a BUSINESS that supports our family & pays the bills. A good year gets you closer to your dream. The customer battles are a part of the business... right?
-------------------- Michael R. Bendel Bendel Sign Co,. Inc. Sauk Rapids, MN Posts: 913 | From: Sauk Rapids, MN | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
I've told this story here before, but I'll tell it again.....
When I had a shop in Brewton, AL we had a laser engraver and I did quite a few plaques for the local schools. One day a teacher comes in and orders a plaque for one of her students. She gives me all the info and says to lay it out like I think it should look. She picked out a nice plaque, squabbled a little about the price, then told me to go ahead.
Well, she comes in a couple days later to pick up the plaque. First thing she does is hold it up and say things like "Well, this isn't really what I had in mind...", "I don't really like that print..." etc. etc.
I think she's trying to get me to lower the price, but I've decided I'm not going to give in, so I offer instead to change it to her liking and burn a new plaque. She comes back and we spend 30 minutes bastardizing the design to her liking, changing the fonts and layout. Finally she says she really likes it, and to go ahead and burn it.
Next day she comes in, picks up the plaque, and starts the whole routine over again... "Well, I don't really like that print.. it doesn't look the same on the plaque as it did on the computer.... hmmm.. I just don't know if I can take this...."
At this point, I'm about to come unglued, but I ask her to let me look at it... and once it was in my hand I calmly told her... "Ma'am, it is quite obvious I am not going to be able to do the kind of work you will be satisfied with.. I think you are going to have to go to Pensacola to get your plaque" and with that I tossed the plaque halfway across the store towards a big plastic trash can. It missed and bounced across the concrete face down...... OMG, you should have seen the look on her face. It was priceless and well worth the loss of the two plaque blanks and a little time.
She turned and walked out without another word. I was worried about my business from that school for a little while, but I never heard anything from them and kept doing just as much business with them as before...
-------------------- Jon Jantz Snappysign.com jjantz21@gmail.com http://www.allcw.com Posts: 3395 | From: Atmore, AL | Registered: Nov 2005
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although this is our bread and butter, sending them back out is a good thing. Im sick of aggravation. Im sick of lowballers. I dont have time for it anymore. I was run over sooo many times in the beginning, we all were.
Im getting older and my patience is running thin. I am more quick to recognize a problem customer. I avoid as much BS as I can. I dont get on here and "brag" about running them off, I really do it.
I have heard it all, seen it all, and if you think about it its all the same. People repeat the same crap all the time. the same old lame commments, the same old "I need it yesterday" we have heard it all.
The best thing in the world I have learned and it was hard, was NOT TO LET THE CUSTOMERS PROBLEMS BE MY PROBLEMS! so many times they have shoved their "wait to the last minute projects on us,(because we let them). it causes us stress and we get blamed if it doesnt come thru.
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
posted
Yes, there are times when this happens. I remember we installed a customer-built sign to the front of a building. The front was nothing more than stucco over sheetrock, so we had to climb up into a crawl space and anchor into pieces of metal that we bridged across the metal studs behind the wall. It took a bucket truck and 3 people to coordinate it. The customer had not given us accurate information in the first place, but she insisted that the installation price was too high. She knew how long we had fought to get it up there, and yet she was upset about how much she was being charged. I remember my boss talking to her over the phone as she kept trying to wrangle over the price. Finally he told her he would send his guys back over there to take it off the wall, and she could find someone else to do it for her rediculously low price. It's still up there, but we haven't done any work for her since...thank goodness.
My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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Here's the other thing we have learned over the years. Usually those people like that lady who jacked Jon around with the plaque are like that with everyone! And if they DO bad mouth you about how you threw them out of your shop, the people that they tell about how rude and mean you were, usually applaud you for standing up to these bullies! We've had people go out of their way to call or stop by and THANK us! It rarely happens here, but when we do "fire" a customer, it's usually to the point that it's a big relief to all of us. Sometime, ask Bill about his story about the Illinois driver facility...
-------------------- Jane Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, Il. 61764 815-844-7024 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 4102 | From: Pontiac, IL USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted
There's a basic thread that runs through ALL these stories. Clients who are respectful, reasonable, and civil are treated that way. It doesn't mean that they can't be picky or demanding - but it does mean there are those R-R-C limits, and every once in a while, someone crosses the line.
Respectful means a client does not waste my time, does not condescend, does not deliberately mislead me, does not attempt to manipulate me to get something for nothing. It DOES mean they can negotiate prices or terms, but precludes them from making demands I don't agree with.
Reasonable means that they have a basic grasp of physical reality - they CANNOT have a double-faced 24 square-foot carved sign in three days for $100, CANNOT put magnetic signs on an aluminum truck body, CANNOT expect red Arial Light on a maroon background to be readable, for example.
Civil means that nothing gives them the right to be abusive, verbally or physically. Ever. And in MY shop, the only judge of what any of those things mean is up to ME. PERIOD.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Then again, there are those shops that have to endure whatever amount of crap the "client" is doling out because they are just poor business people...
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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There have been occasions where I didn't let the door knob hit the customer in the @ss. I'm not proud of it, but deemed it neccessary. Thankfully, no consequences. I keep reminding myself that 10% of my customers give me 90% of my problems.
posted
The only things I will turn down are those projects that I strongly feel are just bad deals. I have no problems with negotiating. I will work with just about anything and anyone to come to agreeable terms.
Where I draw the line is inflexible clients that want to control one-way negotiations that only benefit themselves. As Cam put it, unreasonable.
I'm not going to accept a job with no profit and the more demanding a client gets with me, the more demanding I'm going to get with them. If they insist on nephew art that's fine but then I demand getting paid to make it usable for quality reproduction. If they need their stuff on a tight deadline that's fine, but if that means I'm working overtime to finish it I demand an extra 50%. Everyone else gets time and a half for OT, why shouldn't I? If I had to pay employees OT that cost would get passed on just the same. I don't think that's unreasonable and neither would any other reasonable person.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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The kicker was last week. Thursday lunchtime, I get a phone call from a cell phone 45 minutes away. The woman asks if I can do "a few" political signs. I say yes, but if they are for the election (on Tuesday!) I can't do them, I'm booked for the next month. She then tells me they don't have to be the plastic, they could be the waterproof paper-type stuff. I tell her the coro would be her best bet for that quantity, but remind her I am booked for the next month, there is no way I can have them done in that short timeframe. She turns to whoever is with her and all snotty says "She can't do them. I have a business and I squeeze people in." Then hung up. I do squeeze in jobs for good customers, but I'm not going to push aside the jobs already scheduled for my good, steady customers to jump through hoops for a f*%&nut that's probably already been laughed at by all the shops between me & her.
I've also had a few "kids" come in wanting decals printed & bringing me in a paper printout. I ask if they designed in, nope, got it off the internet. I tell them I can't do it unless they have permission from the copyright owner as I will not violate copyright, it's no different than stealing their car or robbing a bank. They have all been pleasant about it & thanked me.
Had 1 customer that I gave an estimated completion date to for a project she brought in. She started calling me 3 times a day WAY before the date I gave her, wanting to know if it was done, when would it be. She couldn't understand that her constant phone calls were not making paint dry any faster. Finally told her that I obviously could not complete her project in the timeframe that she want it and would not have started it had she told me her timeframe up front.
The aggravation & stress level just isn't worth it. There are a lot of good customers and good jobs out there, I don't need to waste time on the PITA ones.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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yep. have done it. just told a friend of 24 years to hit the road. literally. told him I couldn't take his crazy demands to have it done before I even know he wants it done -- you know what I mean. This guy is worse than have to have it yesterday. this guys wants you to have it before he even knows he needs it!
So --- goodbye!!! Told him I was thru, see ya later. And it didn't even hurt. His last phone call that pushed me over the line was at 9 pm on a friday night needing lettering by 8 am
it was great!!!
-------------------- Michael Gene Adkins The Fontry 1576 S Hwy 59 Watts OK 74964 Posts: 845 | From: Watts, OK USA | Registered: Jun 1999
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I have had a situation not too long ago where a long-time client of my father's came in to see me. He wanted a custom project done within two weeks. I told him repeatedly that at the moment I was 4 to 6 weeks out and that I couldn't promise it any sooner. He paid his deposit (something my father had never made him do) and he left.
Two weeks later he showed up to pick up his sign. When he saw that I hadn't even started on it, be began to berate me in front of the staff.
Now, to give you a little background on this guy, my father and he have a bit of history and were friends. I didn't much care for him because while he had brought in a fair bit of work, he also wasted a great deal of time. It wasn't uncommon for him to just show up out of the blue, expect me to drop everything and ride out to another town to look at a project he was considering. Often, these projects never materialized. When my father left the company, this guy started to go to other sign shops.
When he came back this last time, he tried to butter me up with stories of how the other shops just didn't do as nice a job as I did and how he always seemed to have a problem with them.
Anyhow, when he started in and said that I had promised to have the job done within two weeks (a lie) and began to berate me in front of the staff demanding why I could never deliver when promised (nevermind the signed work order stating 4-6 week delivery), I had enough. I had other projects that came in before his and I wasn't about to let him intimidate me into putting him at the front of the line.
I told him I had a perfect solution to the problem.
I escorted him to the front office and instructed mom to write him a refund check. I then turned to the now "fired" client and told him I was tired of his *#$&, pointed to the promised delivery date on the workorder with his signature below it and told him to never set foot on the property again or I'd kick his ass.
Its rare for me to ever curse, but I was so angry I let it fly. It takes a lot to get me that angry and he's one of the few to hit that button.
After I walked away, Mom tried to smooth things over. She's always been a bit of a peacemaker. She said he was about as close to tears as she had ever seen him (and she's known him for over 20 years). He just couldn't understand why I flew off the handle at him like I did.
Two employees told her later what he had done.
Anyhow, he left the job with us and I completed it a couple weeks later.
He called a few months later wanting to get with me about another project. I told him I wasn't interested and that he needed to find someone else.
Has it cost me money? Yes.
Do I regret it? No.
It was as if a huge boulder had been lifted off my shoulders. He got to be someone else's problem now.
posted
Yes, it happens from time to time. One thing about being self employed is you don't HAVE to take any kind of $h*t off anybody. The taste of $h*t really lingers in the mouth, long after the benefits of the money from the job have left. I'll probably die poor but it won't be with the taste of $h*t in my mouth. I've found that there are people in life that just "don't get it", they operate differently than the majority. This can come in many forms and it's always a negative quality. Some people are born fukups, constantly getting into jams and in trouble with the law...they "don't get it", these folks are at the extreme. The "difficult" customers are at the other end of the "don't get it" scale. Glenn's story about the guy that wasted time driving around looking at jobs he was "considering".......you just don't do things like that unless you "don't get it" These folks almost always have problems in the realm of narcissism. You can't talk to them in any way to show them their errors, only show them the door. I've found that 75% of customers are pretty easy to deal with, 20% are great to deal with and the other 5% just don't get it. I'll gladly eat the 5% loss than eat $h*t.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
George's comments make me think of an exchange I had a few years ago with a former client - it told me a great deal about his personal philosophy. His comment was "If you are willing to kiss someone's a$$, it makes shyt smell like money." My response was that kissing someone's a$$ only makes money smell like shyt.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Years ago I had a potential customer ask me how much I made an hour because he never paid anyone to do anything if they made more an hour than he did. I told him I hoped he never had to go to a hospital and showed him the door.
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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quote:Originally posted by Cam Bortz: George's comments make me think of an exchange I had a few years ago with a former client - it told me a great deal about his personal philosophy. His comment was "If you are willing to kiss someone's a$$, it makes shyt smell like money." My response was that kissing someone's a$$ only makes money smell like shyt.
OK, now that's a quote to remember...I love it
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
The right customer is never wrong and the wrong customer is never right! -Frank Paxton Jr. from a sales meeting in the early 50s
-------------------- Preston McCall 112 Rim Road Santa Fe, New Mexico 87501 text: 5056607370 Posts: 1558 | From: Santa Fe, New Mexico | Registered: Nov 1998
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My daughter said that in the movie industry, when they have a problem, they throw money at it until it goes away. When a customer comes in with a problem (unrealistic deadline, etc.), they have to throw (extra) money at it to git-r-done.
-------------------- Ricky Jackson Signs Now 614 Russell Parkway Warner Robins, GA (478) 923-7722 signpimp50@hotmail.com
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Issac Newton Posts: 3528 | From: Warner Robins, GA | Registered: Oct 2004
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