posted
Guy calls this morning, wanting a price on a 4x4...two sided. Says he has his own PVC board, then tells me that another shop had wanted an extra $25 for removing the letters from it. He also mentions that he is in realestate. Red flags went up but I agreed to give him a quote anyway. I actually had no hope of getting the job. So he sends the pic, below, in an email.
This was my response.
quote:xxxxxx, Our base price for a 16 square ft., .o40 two sided, with two colors, 8 words or less per side is $348.30 MInus $65 (because you have the substrate) and it is $283.30. This sign has 50 words (25 each side) The 34 extra words will add $190.40 to the price making it $473.70 plus tax. Your sign is much too wordy. with 25 words per side. People will have to stop to read all that. If you could reduce all but the most important things, we could make everything larger, your sign would be more effective, and it would reduce the price. People can obtain the other information once inside your business, or off your website. Thanks Wayne
He calls back, my wife answers, and he very politely informs her that I should "be aware of my market". This time he divulges the rest of the information, which is nice to know. The other sign shop was going to charge him $125 bucks to letter this monstrosity, TWO SIDES plus 40 bucks to remove the letters. Then they wanted the extra $25. Anyway he got another quote from my competitor, also for $125...two sided 4x4. Then he thanks my wife for the information and says that he will ask the other shop to reduce the price further when he, at my advice, removes the extra words. Hey...before anyone says anything bad about this guy. He was very nice. You cannot blame him if we give it to him for free. Wayne
This is why my market is primarily sandblasted signs.
BTW..."Wausau" is the name of the town.
[ November 05, 2007, 01:43 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Wayne Webb: Our base price for a 16 square ft., .o40 two sided, with two colors, 8 words or less per side is $348.30 MInus $65 (because you have the substrate) and it is $283.30. This sign has 50 words (25 each side) The 34 extra words will add $190.40 to the price making it $473.70 plus tax.
posted
its a whole different world down thataway))))) my sister in law(retired)to SCOTTS FERRY, bout 20 miles south a blountstown......really reminds me the "old west virginia" i knew growin up there. blountstown has a PIGGLY WIGGLY.....only one i ever seen....except the one in DRIVIN MISS DAISY)))))))
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
My shop sits between Bonifay and Chipley. Each has a Piggly Wiggly. I have installed signs and played music in Blountstown. They still got bears in the woods down there....
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
Wayne, I probably wouldn't have gotten the job either. I don't know what the going rate is in my town for something like that but I come in over $500 just for the vinyl just using a price per square foot pricing method.
Good riddance though. These guys charging $125 are morons. Umm, that's less than $4 per sq ft, barely over the cost of the materials needed to do the job, much less to cover the labor. I know a printer could knock this out but they still gotta pay the bills.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
Mike, I know! Ain't it amazin'? It seems almost magical how they can do that and survive.....
Thanks Raymond, It's nice to know I was in the ballpark on the price. I've made some pretty good money on vinyl jobs, but it's getting fewer and farther between. We've had three more shops move into town recently and when they fold, there will more to take their place. On the other hand, we have about 10k worth of sandblasted signs in the shop now.
You got that right, Si.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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First, Mr. uncommitted dabbler uses cheapest vinyl he can find. Then he uses a $300 bux cutter with his lamer plug in bundled cutter software. That ruins more vinyl than it cuts correctly. He is supplied by sign el' cheapo supplier who encourages sign whores. Then he uses his FREE samples of AVery vinyl to make a buck.
Then he does it in his bedroom with no over head or insurance. Then he has a full time McJob somewhere but is bored out of his mind.
Then he know he is lame but wants to give a "deal" because every one else is ripping of the working guy. And the only reason he is cutting vinyl is because he has no sense of self worth and is really trying to be somebody other than a production worker.
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
I wouldn't have quoted. He already had his materials. That says right there hes a tightwad and the job would probably be a pain to do.
Weve all seen this before, customers that have already bought their materials are not a good sale
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
quote:Originally posted by bruce ward: We've all seen this before, customers that have already bought their materials are not a good sale
Are we in the business of judging people or making money?
I have had customers that have tried to save a dollar by having their own substrates, but actually have turned into good customers because they were given the respect they deserve. Haven't we all tried this at one point or another?
If you bring in your own board I'll letter it, same as a truck or boat.
It's not Wayne's fault his market is in a viscous cycle to the bottom.
[ November 06, 2007, 08:39 AM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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quote:Originally posted by Michael R. Bendel: Is it just me Wayne or could your response simply have been...???
4'x4' double sided sign - (ready to decorate substrate supplied by client.) Apply vinyl as per design supplied. $473.00.
Thank you for the opportunity to bid on your project...xxxxxxxxx sign co.
Thanks Bill, It would seem simpler. But I don't like making signs like this. So I always try to educate the client or prospect by explaining to them why they are wasting their money putting too much stuff on their sign. Also, this client needed to know that the price of his sign could be reduced by omitting the extra copy.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
Thanks Curtis and Bruce, It's always discouraging to me when a customer "brings his own plywood", but I quote them anyway. The mentality seems to be that "the plywood" is the main tangible worth of the sign.
Thanks Ron, I've learned that if I just swallow my pride, be nice and informative, I may not make every sale like this, but do get a few. And more often than not, the seemingly "difficult" prospects turn out to be the best custoemrs.
[ November 06, 2007, 10:52 AM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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I usually wince when a customer talks about supplying the substrate since it usually means it either has an image to remove or bury, or is already weathered, abused or recycled to the point that it won't last too long.
This is the 3rd sign this customer has supplied. Granted, not every customer gives you something this nice to start with, but he's definitely an exception. Very easy to work with, open to design input and pays on delivery.
Like Bob mentioned, it's really not much different than doing a truck or van. How many of us turn away a truck lettering job because it has rust on the fenders? What are the odds they are going to run out and buy a new van because we wouldn't letter a "beater" with a dented bumper?
I've torn up enough brushes over the years trying to make rough lumber and smashed up race cars look good. These days, I don't judge the people as much as I judge the materials they want to supply me. If a customer wants to spend the time prepping the substrate PROPERLY to save on my labor charges, that's fine as long as I know EXACTLY what I'll get before quoting the job!!!
Upselling stuff like this isn't rocket science...
"It's often less expensive to start with fresh materials because there are no surprises. It can take me longer if problems arise, and time is money."
"I can't warranty it. Some new _____ material will last ____ years longer. You'll get you money's worth out of it and then some."
"Let's make YOUR sign, not unmake someone else's. It'll fit the design, not be designed to fit."
If they bring in waterlogged chunk of CDX plywood, I'll either talk them into a better investment, adjust the price for the extra grief or pass on it all together.
Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
At the risk of sounding arrogant, I don't get those kind of customers, and haven't in years. The print shop in the next town - whose owner is a good friend - soaks up the majority of these jobs, but he's a good businessman and doesn't give work away, either. If they don't pay his prices, or mine, they go elsewhere. Where? Who cares?
On the other hand, the long-time bottom-feeder in our town, who for many years slopped out nasty-looking hand-lettered 4x8s for seventy five to a hundred bux, finally closed up, bitterly complaining about all those cheap customers - wonder why?
Now we have a brand new "carved sign" outlet, where everything is made of PVC on a router, somewhere out of state. I don't know what they are charging and I don't particularly care to find out. Their OWN signs - which one assumes are examples of their best efforts - have been up less than a year, are made of PVC and are already beginning to warp and buckle, which tells me a lot about their material choices and construction techniques. That's the great thing about this biz - using inappropriate materials, cutting corners on construction, or just being generally incompetent, becomes very obvious, very quickly.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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quote:If they bring in waterlogged chunk of CDX plywood
...I tell them to go put that back under the woodpile. If they object, ask them if they would take week-old roadkill into a restuarant and ask the chef to turn it into an edible steak dinner. If the STILL object, they aren't going to pay me a dime for a sign, 'cause I won't do the damn thing.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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quote:Originally posted by Cam Bortz: At the risk of sounding arrogant, I don't get those kind of customers, and haven't in years. .....
I just couldn't imagine why................
quote:Originally posted by Cam Bortz:
quote:If they bring in waterlogged chunk of CDX plywood
...I tell them to go put that back under the woodpile. If they object, ask them if they would take week-old roadkill into a restuarant and ask the chef to turn it into an edible steak dinner.....
posted
I stand corrected... in the "Possum Capital" I guess it wouldn't be a stretch.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Sometimes I wonder.... May be a little stretch but, people here do eat them. We live about four miles from Wausau. At their annual "possum Festival" there is a possum auction, hog calling, a "possum queen" contest, and plenty of possum cuisine.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
Wayne, we used to go out at night and shoot possum and then take them over to the 'quarters' and sell them for $5 a piece. A quick $20 or $25 bucks for an hour of riding around shooting... great fun. Nowadays the game wardens are so tough on spotlighting it's hard to go possum huntin'.
We were aware of the market... (just trying to stay on topic.. hehe)
[ November 07, 2007, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: Jon Jantz ]
-------------------- Jon Jantz Snappysign.com jjantz21@gmail.com http://www.allcw.com Posts: 3395 | From: Atmore, AL | Registered: Nov 2005
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Jon, We used to do the same with 'coons. But around here, the caucasians dine on opossum as well. And now that this is back on topic.... ....We actually spotlighted some deer last year, and it was legaL. My son made the acquaintance of a truck farmer who had obtained a nuisance permit to 'harvest' them at night. I didn't believe it until I saw the document myself. We got six deer in one night.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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