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I've finally got a job using Gemini letters! They will be mounted on a 11'x7'man-made boulder (Cement) Although it isn't perfectly flat where the letters are going, I was wondering if that would made a difference. Should the letters be mounted so that they are flat or is it okay to have maybe one or two letters a little higher than the other? Maybe 1 inch at the most. And,, should I glue on the little letter holders that Gemini provides or should I screw them into the "Rock". I'll post a pic when I get done, when it stops raining.
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3814 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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Alicia, I'd probably use the studs with small pads to space out the letters just enough from the rock that they are all even. Get their pattern for spacing the letters... drill the rock and silicone the letters on. There's not usually a good way to mount the letters with screws without the screws showing.
You wouldn't HAVE to get the pads on the studs, it just nice because you can put all the letters up and check how they look, adjust the pads to make them look right... then come back and silicone them in. If the letters stand off the rock far enough to allow the pads to be visible, I might just go without.
The template is WELL WORTH THE MONEY. I've done the letters several times without and it takes WAY longer.
BTW- Gemini has some training videos... The only one I've watched is the "Brick" mount video, and it was pretty informative. I was glad I watched it because I didn't realize you could order your letters with "Brick" stud spacing that puts them all in the mortar joints. No more trying to drill a stud right on the edge of a brick...
Anyway, you might check out the one on Stud Mount and Uneven Surfaces.
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Also make sure you have a decent hammer drill and have several bits with you. And bring ear plugs. If you're drilling into sandstone you won't have a problem. We're in iron country here and I swear I had rocks with lots of iron ore in them because they were tough to drill. I went through 8 bits for 22 letters, 2 logos and 1 arrow.
My rock jobs with Gemini letters were on fairly flat rocks so I didn't need the pads, but I agree with Jon for rocks that aren't flat.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5397 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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I too have to agree on using stud mounts with pads to keep the letters even. You can install the letters dry as Jon said, then take a straight edge and adjust pads until all letters are even. Once this is done, remove the letters, add silicone adhesive, reinstall letters, and check with straight edge again. You will be able to fine tune the depth of letters before the silicone sets.
I would strongly suggest purchasing a rotary hammer instead of a hammer drill. The rotary hammer will drill into concrete much faster than a hammer drill, plus the bits last a lot longer.
Just yesterday I installed 26 letters (92 holes) on some of the hardest brick I have ever seen. It took all of 1 hour and 27 minutes, and all 92 holes were completed using one bit that I am not sure how many jobs it has been used on before.
-------------------- Don Hulsey Strokes by DON signs Utica, KY 270-275-9552 sbdsigns@aol.com
I've always been crazy... but it's kept me from going insane. Posts: 2275 | From: Utica, KY U.S.A. | Registered: Jan 1999
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Hammer Drill? Looks like I'm gonna have to "Rent a Tool".
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3814 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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When we mount letters to rock we make a drilling template from masonite. Trace the lettering on the template too and don't leave alot of margin top and bottom. Position the template where you want it and have a helper hold it or hold it up with duct tape. Step back and you can see how the letters will look on the same plain. You can bend the masonite on the horizontal if you are going around a curve. We then drill one of the holes for our letters on each end of the legend. In these holes stick removable expansion fasteners and tighten the template to the rock face. This way your holes will line up and there will be no slips. We always have compressed air to blow out all the holes too.
-------------------- Silver Creek Signworks Dick Bohrer Two Harbors, MN Posts: 236 | From: Two Harbors, MN USA | Registered: Jun 1999
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Not much that I can add here. These folks have pretty much told you the same thing that I would. I will say, just for the record, that Gemini would never recommend using just silicone, adhesive, etc. for any outside installation. I know that some people do and that final decision is the customer's but we always recommend studs for any letter being used outside.
In your case, I would certainly agree that you use the "combination all" mount so that you can adjust the pad on the stud to level the faces and keep them straight between letters. Just makes for a MUCH more professional looking installation.
-------------------- Don Nelson Gemini dnelson@axcesswave.com Posts: 43 | From: Oberlin, OH | Registered: Aug 2004
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Alicia, Everybody covered it. Dicks gets as close as we do it.
What Don said is very true. If you order your letters with the "combination all" install kit, the letter will come with the pads mounted to the backs of the letters already and a bag of studs and another bad of more pads. I ALWAYS order mine with that kit. Even if you don't use all the stuff, you are covered (don't tell the company Don ).
If you order your pattern from them they will set you up with a pattern that has all the pre located holes marked (CHECK IT BEFORE DRILLING...sorry Don, I've got them were they did not match ). We always make our own pattern just to be safe.
You mentioned that were the letters were going was flat, but yet you want to be able to set them off 1"? Confused. Standing off the rock on a even plain would look good if that is what you are talking about. But just using the drill/stud mount would be your best bet. And I always use sillycon..works for me
My 1.5 cents
-------------------- Snow's Sign Works 865-908-0076 snowman@planetc.com www.snowsigns.com
I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message... Posts: 1640 | From: Sevierville, TN | Registered: Jul 2005
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Just a little clarification and Don can correct me if I'm wrong. When he said they don't recommend silicon or adhesive on outdoor installations, he was talking about not just glueing the pads right to the wall/rock, etc.
If you drill holes and use the studs, it's fine to use silicon on the studs when mounting the letters... at least I've never had any problems.
One thing I've done that's similar to Dick's idea is tape the pattern to a big piece of scrap cardboard if the surface is too uneven...
Jake, one time I didn't receive my pattern and had to make my own... I had the lettering already laid out on the computer in the exact typestyle that I had ordered, so I just loaded up the vinyl cutter with some old weird color vinyl I hadn't used in ages and cut the lettering... reversed weeded the letters and laid it out on the carpet in the show-room. I put all the studs in the letters and then lined them up with the weeded letter on the sheet of vinyl, gave it a little tap to punch the stud through the wax paper.... and voila, nice pattern with straight letters.
-------------------- Jon Jantz Snappysign.com jjantz21@gmail.com http://www.allcw.com Posts: 3395 | From: Atmore, AL | Registered: Nov 2005
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Mud-flaG Girl ! ohla..............or is it aloha...you know what i mean folks. we do Gemini about once a year-that's enough punishment.
tip-when drilling the holes, with the hammer-drill, which will be worth the rental fee ( we got one 4 xmas a few years back )....use the "side" of the drill, where the air "spins" out to blow out the dust in the hole. you'd be suprised how effective this is,( this technique is know around here as the "jiggle & pray" move ) use safety glasses ! good luck.
you wouldn't want to be know as the talented one-eye- mud-flap Senorita........Zman nou` vemous'
-------------------- mark zilliox mark z signs 8425 pushaw station rd. owings md. 20736 301-855-5407 thezs@earthlink.net http://www.markzsigns.com Posts: 348 | From: maryland | Registered: May 2003
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Jake, No problem. I would always order the combination mount too. If you end up not needing the pads, you can just save them for another use. Better to have them and not need them than to need them and not have them.
Jon, Thanks for your comments. YES, you are exactly right. I meant that we would not recommend a pad only mount. Silicon on the studs is exactly what we would recommend.
Mark, Using the drill fan to blow out the holes is a great way to do it and we even show that in our installation video/DVD. Most loose studs after installation are the result of not blowing the dust out of the holes.
-------------------- Don Nelson Gemini dnelson@axcesswave.com Posts: 43 | From: Oberlin, OH | Registered: Aug 2004
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). We always make our own pattern just to be safe.
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