posted
This is a rant - so if you don't want to view what's coming....just pass this one by.
Ok, so I just bought a new $200 APC Backup. I drive 25 miles one way to pick it up.
I get back, plug the battery connector together per instructions and turn it on.....the "Replace Battery" red light starts blinking and the unit beeps incessantly at me.
I call the toll free number and get tech support - it's in the PHILIPPINES...
The tech gal puts me on hold while she gets an RMA....to replace the battery....she never returns and the phone is dead silent....I'm wondering if the connection got dropped. Maybe a lobster cut through one of the undersea phone lines.
I call back and have to completely start over....this gal shouldn't even be on the payroll...English sucks, and I have to spell (literally) every word for her....even my state which is Michigan.
I finally hang up on her, sensing that my chances of having the transaction go through are about 1 tenth of 1 percent.
So, off I go on another 50 mile round trip back to the store to return it...wasted time, but easier.
My lamentation is that what kind of country do we now live in where the company is listed with an American address - but all their contact numbers are farmed out to some third world country where the techs can barely speak the language??
All to save 5 cents....
I'd rather pay $10 more for every freaking item I buy and know it's backed up on the phone by someone named Frank or Mary....not Nyu or Sciepan.
Jeesh. Ok, I feel better now....I'm off to return this junker.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
its the way you wanted it....NO UNIONS, CHEAP LABOR, INFERIOR PRODUCTS NOT MANAFACTURED IN THE U.S.A......be happy ...AND LEARN A COUPLE FOREIGN LANGUAGES ......)))))))) i could go on.... what i really want ....is some of that GOOD OLD LEAD BASED PAINT.....they got it and we cant buy it????????)))))))
[ September 10, 2007, 01:24 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Geez, Todd, I can't remember the last time I called tech support for ANYTHING. It was still total frustration back when they knew English.
-------------------- Frank Smith Frank Smith Signs Albany, NY www.franksmithsigns.com Posts: 807 | From: Albany, NY USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
even sadder... while you're right, the cheap labor does place those techs off shore somewhere... to enjoy the challenges of that english-as-a-not-yet-second language... you need not go far anymore.
posted
I'm totally with ya Joe! (this is NOT a political post)
-------------------- Ricky Jackson Signs Now 614 Russell Parkway Warner Robins, GA (478) 923-7722 signpimp50@hotmail.com
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Issac Newton Posts: 3528 | From: Warner Robins, GA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
My big question is: How did this person get a telephone service job? I love it when they say their nale is Victoria or Kevin when you know darn well it's really Achmed or Habib.
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3485 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
i didnt intend it to be....it more of a "what happened to most INDUSTRIOUS NATION that we had up untill the 70's? iam from PA/W.VA orignally....and my dad and family was coal miners. i worked at WIERTON STEEL. we now sell our crushed car to CHINA... they turn back into steel....(like we used to do)then sell it back to us.....because we got a nation of people WHO DONT WANT THAT JOB??? BULL CRAP. we shut off all the oil wells in tex/ok and buy it from VENESULA...KUWAIT. all the while the price keeps going up. the 1ST OIL WELL IN THE U.S. is in oil city pa...still pumpin oil. JOHN DEERE is made in china.... did one shot sell their formula for its lead based paint to the chineses too??????????
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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We have it here too! Even my own Bank has transfered its phone service offshore. Now all my acccount details are available in a third world country. What next?
At least the Indian operator spoke good English and didn't pretend to be Mary Smith!
posted
its worldwide only jobs left here are barkeepers and hairdressers
fish caught along our coast by norwegian owned russian trawleers is frozen,transported to china, half defrosted, prosessed, packed, frozen and transported back to our shops to buy and eat.
posted
Todd said "My lamentation is that what kind of country do we now live in where the company is listed with an American address - but all their contact numbers are farmed out to some third world country where the techs can barely speak the language??" ---------------------
-------------------- Bruce Williams Lexington KY Posts: 945 | From: Lexington, KY, USA | Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Todd said "My lamentation is that what kind of country do we now live in where the company is listed with an American address - but all their contact numbers are farmed out to some third world country where the techs can barely speak the language??" --------------------- This kind of out-sourcing has been going for a long time. Even the tax authorities of some states have bucked their contact numbers overseas to gawd-knows-where. So it's bad enough when "customer service" of a "domestic" company can't even pronounce the names of streets and states. Now we're supposed to accept the presumption that those people know anything about US tax law? Wow. Where'd they learn it? Gosh, maybe if we'd teach it here, to our own people, we might not have to call those furriners. And I'm not xenophobic: I don't believe you Brits & POMEs & Latinos would appreciate calling ME for local help. And if I screwed up, what could you do about it?
I agree with Old Paint: That's the way the gringos wanted it; cheap labor.
-------------------- Bruce Williams Lexington KY Posts: 945 | From: Lexington, KY, USA | Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
It's a sad state of affairs. Walk into Walmart or Harbour Freight (the tool store) or here in Canada Canadian Tire and Princess Auto. Mostly "junk" almost exclusively made in China. Emptying our economy and filling up our landfills, what a concept.
posted
I guess we won't be going for Chinese today, huh?
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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English and "accents" My wife once called the bank concerning a check written to "Century Buyers", but the girl at the bank, obviously from "Up North", took the name to be "Sun Tree Buyers". Needless to say, that caused some confusion.
"Quality" products When I bought the spiral staircase for my house, I paid to have the STEEL stairs primed and painted.....READY TO INSTALL. Not only did I have to cut and fit ALL of the rails because they were too long, but All of the parts to my USA-made stairs, except the center column and rail, arrived piled in a big cardboard box with steel rubbing against steel and not only had scars, scratches and scuffs, but a few gouges where the steel form one piece grated into the next. Needless to say, I ended up RE-priming and painting the stairkit which I paid about $2700 for and did not buy the bargain brand either. That same season, I had bought an $89 weight bench set, for my kid, at Wallyworld. When I took the set out of the box to assemble for the christmas tree, I was astounded. There were dozens of parts to this thing but each and every one came wrapped individually in sheet foam or plastic. I couldn't believe the care and detail expended in ensuring that the cheap weightset arrived in immaculate condition. It was almost rediculous. There wasn't a scratch on this thing. Then I could go on about the ends of my sandblast stencil which the manufacturer refuses to adequately protect from UPS......UPS......I won't go into that either.
Tech Support Then there's Windows Vista.... Try the Microsoft tech support in India. I won't go into it now but, in our experience, it was second to None. They bent over backwards and even called us back several times trying to resolve our problem. We live in an increasingly global economy and it is going to to be that way from no on.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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-------------------- Ken McTague, Concept Signs 57 Bridge St. (route 107) Salem MA 01970 1-978-745-5800 conceptsign@yahoo.com http://www.pinheadlounge.com/CaptainKen
---------------------------------
"A wise man once said that, or was it a wise guy?" Posts: 2425 | From: Salem, MA | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
I dink u shobee ass hammed o' you self! Tek support is reddy tohelp evrysone 24 hrs a dayz! May Be you needs to speak slow down. Zen they help better.
-------------------- Thom CREATIVE SIGNWORKS Lancaster,PA creativesignworks1@juno.com Posts: 79 | From: lancaster,PA usa | Registered: Dec 2000
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posted
Ron Paul at Letterville? This thing is bigger than I realized, and yeah, I endorse him.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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I bought an audio amplifier from WallofChina-Mart a couple of months ago. Opened it up and in big red letters on the installation instructions it says "DO NOT RETURN TO STORE OR POINT OF PURCHASE".
Of course, a few days later when I installed it, it was defective. Called the number...not in service. Looked up the company's corporate headquarters online and called the number...
...not in service.
Be of good cheer, Todd. At least you GOT someone. I got an electronic paperweight.
GRRRRR!!! Rapid
[ September 11, 2007, 10:08 PM: Message edited by: Ray Rheaume ]
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
With all this griping about outsourcing, it looks to me like a business opportunity is making itself known. Question is, is anyone willing to take the risk?
quote:With all this griping about outsourcing, it looks to me like a business opportunity is making itself known. Question is, is anyone willing to take the risk?
Yeppers, I will start selling the English Version of Rosetta Stone to outsourced companys.
Watch out Donny Deutsch here I come.
[ September 12, 2007, 07:52 AM: Message edited by: William DeBekker ]
quote:Originally posted by Glenn Taylor: With all this griping about outsourcing, it looks to me like a business opportunity is making itself known. Question is, is anyone willing to take the risk?
.
Glenn, I think all the griping results from folks having experienced doing business with companys who have "taken that risk", and are now reaping the rewards of their business decisions.
Customer satisfaction apparently is something that has suffered, as a result of such decisions, and although the cheapness of labour seems attractive at first glance, it does come with certain hidden costs. There's also that traditional patriotic consideration of exporting jobs offshore in exchange for that cheap labour, and supporting the economies of other countries who may hold to values NOT embraced in the North American culture.
For every such decision, there is a consequence, and this griping is indicative of one of those consequences.
-------------------- Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com
Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ? Posts: 2684 | From: London,Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted
As far as the techs with poor English skills go, demand another tech. We recently had an experience along those lines. Denise got really frustrated with ones poor English , asked for his supervisor, who wasn't any better and was rude to boot. In frustration she handed me the phone. After a few minutes of getting nowhere, I hung up, redialed the number, got another tech I couldn't understand, hung up, redialed and got "Mike". He spoke very good English, solved the problem and I could have cared less what his actual name was. I refuse to sweat the little crap. I also refuse to deal with somebody I can't understand. I also sympathise with these folks too. I had a recent dealing with a woman with an Asian accent and I was having trouble hearing her. I went out of my way to insure her it wasn't her English that was the problem but merely a volume issue with her equipment. She thanked me as she had been catching flak all day.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
<<English and "accents" My wife once called the bank concerning a check written to "Century Buyers", but the girl at the bank, obviously from "Up North", took the name to be "Sun Tree Buyers". Needless to say, that caused some confusion..>>
This so reminds me of Bob's cartoon about the "Auto Body" experience! (Out of body)
-------------------- Felix Marcano PuertoRicoSigns.Com Luquillo, PR
Work hard, party like a tourist! Posts: 2274 | From: Luquillo, Puerto Rico, USA | Registered: Nov 2000
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Where people see problems, I see opportunity and potentials.
The matter of people buying on the cheap is nothing new. Back in the 80's, my mom had her own bicycle shop and was a Schwinn dealer. A hundred yards from her was a department store that sold Huffys. She used to worry about losing sales because of their much lower prices. I asked her where she's making her money - on the sale of the bike or on the repairs. According to the books, it was the repairs. And it turned out that roughly 90% of her repairs were on those bikes the department store was selling.
She also made notes on the kind of complaints she was hearing from customers. A lot of them were about the lack of service from the department store.
In the end, she was glad the department store was there. She made more money off of them than anything else.
I recently switched internet providers going from one of the big boys to a local company which also sold and repaired computers. One of their guys was in my shop a couple weeks ago setting up our network and I asked how he felt about the Walmart that was across the street from him and the fact they were selling computers for nearly half of what he was charging. He just grinned and said it was one of the best things to ever happen to him. His story was pretty much in line with my mom's. The profit margins on computers is pretty slim as it is and he's making a killing on repairs and service calls. The frustration that Todd talks about is what has driven customers to him and helped his service department grow.
*******
As for tech support being outsourced, has anyone really considered what it cost a manufacturer per call? The last article I read said it cost on average about $45 per call. A large portion of those had more to do with operator (read: customer) error rather than faulty equipment.
Lets be honest. We all want the best deal and price plays a big part of it. And when companies rely on outsourcing their support, can we really blame them? If you want to talk to someone who speaks your language as well as you do, then buy from the local guy who stands behind what he sells. But if you're going to buy based on price, frustration is going to be part of the deal.
Sometimes is good to buy from one of the big box stores. Sometimes its better to buy from the local guy. You get to make the choice so lets not blame the manufacturer for your decisions.
I don't know where Todd bought his APC. In my town, I have several available sources. I buy mine from Staples because of their return policies and ease of access. I bought a computer from them not too long ago. A week after I got it the power supply fried. I just put it back in the box and returned it. They gave me a brand new one no questions asked. No RMAs. No forms to fill out. Nothing.
posted
Ok, sorry Glenn. I did misunderstand your initial response. I had thought you were extending an invitation to those in the sign business to consider outsourcing some of their business to offshore suppliers as a business opportunity. Your question whether or not it was a risk worth taking, seemed to imply that suggestion.
I've seen the results of that with tons of misspelled or misprinted t-shirts in dollar store bargain bins, which were obviously rejects.
Your clarification of your intention is much more revealing and insightful, and I tend to agree with what you've stated.
-------------------- Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com
Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ? Posts: 2684 | From: London,Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted
So in turn with asking provocative questions:
When you buy supplies for your shop - not "sign supplies" per se, but things like nuts and bolts, paint strainers, small hand tools, and other general hardware items, do you go to Home Depot or Walmart, or to your local hardware store? When you need a pair of work boots, do you buy at Walmart, or at a locally-owned shoe store? Do you buy a computer or TV at Best Buy or at the local shop? Where do you buy your food? Your clothing?
Most Americans aren't willing to put their money where their mouth is. They want low-priced consumer goods, then bellyache that all the manufacturing jobs go to China. They want inexpensive fresh food all year long, then complain about the illegal immigrants that pick the veggies and cut the meat.
Here's a reality check, the kind that gets flamed: YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS. You want to buy American-made products produced by Union labor? You better be ready to open your wallets, 'cause the cost of those wages and benefits and enviromental regulations and everything else are going to be part of a far higher prices, the kind of prices that most Americans are not willing to pay. We complain about Walmart and Home Depot, then starve out our local businesses to save a nickle - its happened all over the country, and we have nobody to blame but ourselves.
You want the source of the problem? Take a long, hard look in the mirror, boys and girls.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Something happened the other day that reinforced my reasons why I never go to megelow-mart or sams.
Had a chance to bid on a lit cabinet with changeable letters for a new church in the area. I would have gotten the job too, as the person who I was dealing with is a friend with a lot of pull in this church, but he was not on the sign committee. Before I could make a call to Sign Cabinets and get a price he calls me back and tells me that there was already a cabinet at the church, and that they had gotten at sams club for, get this, $67.00! We both laughed about it wondering how long this junk would last and he told me he'll be in charge next sign, which will probably be in the spring. Cam's right, I stay away from those places and try my hardest to deal with people that do business with me, but even the mom and pop stores have chinese labels on the majority of merchandise. Oh, and a big Ron Paul supporter here too!
-------------------- Bill Reusch Reusch Sign Company 3258 80th. ave. Knapp, Wis. 54749 715-665-2647 Posts: 83 | From: Knapp, Wisconsin | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
Cam, There's a great little family owned grocery store here I go to. Nice folks, always helpful. The big chain store....I avoid it like the plague. Cheaper's one thing, but just plain crappy food...I pass.
Like begets like I suppose. I'm a one man shop in a one horse town. I support those who support me and try my best to keep my purchases with local businesses.
I go to the local hardware store all the time, not because it's closer, but because they aren't burdened with mouth breather employees who's cumulative knowledge is limited to which isle hammers are in. Easy to prove....just ask a Home Dropout worker if they have any 1/2" MDO in stock. If you have a few minutes to kill, the deer-in-the-headlights look and inevitable six-people-running-around-in-circles-without-a-clue can almost be fun to watch.
Could I save more money there? If initial price was all that mattered, maybe, but come time to get a warranty backed up, a replacement or customer service that's even remotely intelligent...may as well go online. That's what they're gonna do anyway and you can probably find the info faster than they can.
Do I shop at the big box stores? Yeah, but for one of two reasons... ...no one around here has a similar item... or it's a throw away item anyway, like popsicle sticks or dixie cups for mixing paint in, or cheap sneakers for spilling it on.
Our little one horse town has a Wally World under construction right now, but I really don't see me going there much after the doors open....I'll be on the other end of the parking lot at the good old local hardware store...where they know what they are doing and who they are doing it for.
Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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