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Hello all, we are using a 54" Royal Sovereign Laminator. It seems lately when I laminate anything bigger than 70-80 inches the print begins to buckle and folds over itself. I don't feel I can start the print any flater or straighter than I am now but it still buckles......What am I doing wrong??? Thanks for any light you can shed on my problem.
Rob
-------------------- Rob Larkham Sign Techniques Inc. Chicopee, Ma Posts: 607 | From: Chester, Ma. | Registered: Apr 2002
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You aren't doing much wrong at all. I have the same laminator and am not extremely impressed with it. When doing large jobs anyhow. We have found that if you play with how you put your laminate on the machine (usually the way you aren't suppose to), you can get it to work better. "sometimes"!
Another trick is to mess with the paper that keeps the lamination from sticking. Putting it on the opposite way also. It takes some time and trials, but we have found it sometimes helps.
HOw long have you been using this laminator?
Good luck with it!
T
-------------------- Theresa N. Hoying Visual Concepts 130 South Lester Avenue Sidney, Ohio 45365 937.492.2110 Posts: 176 | From: Sidney, Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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T- we have had the lam for 6 months. In the beginning I was running 12 footers through no problem. The only thing that has changed is the weather......thinking this could be the problem. I'm going to make some small changes and see what does and doesn't solve ny problem.
Thanks, Rob
-------------------- Rob Larkham Sign Techniques Inc. Chicopee, Ma Posts: 607 | From: Chester, Ma. | Registered: Apr 2002
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oh its the weather for sure esp.if its been humid. that paper wrinkles big time when its humid. the only time i ever mess up a print laminating is when its hot and humid. now i don't chance it...when i know its going to be warm outside i turn the a/c on and just leave it on all day...it takes out all the moisture in the air. i think its imperative to keep your temps consistently dry and about 65-70 degrees when doing digital and laminating.
-------------------- Karyn Bush Simply Not Ordinary, LLC Bartlett, NH 603-383-9955 www.snosigns.com info@snosigns.com Posts: 3516 | From: Bartlett, NH USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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I don't laminate everyday anymore, but have been laminating some since about 94.
Is it hot or cold laminate? Are you just top laminating, or encapsulating? At my old job we had a large seal laminator, and when using hot laminate we had to run about four feet through the machine, to clear it of wrinkles each time before running a print through.
This morning I laminated three 4 foot prints, two 6 foot prints, and two 8 foot prints. All of them were done in my 90 degree garage, because using an 8 foot sled won't work in my small shop.
Laminating has always made me a little nervous. In the past, if a wrinkle would occur, it was usually because the tension somewhere was too tight, or one side of the top roller was tighter than the other, making the pressure uneven across the print. When using top and bottom laminate, just getting the tension right makes a lot of difference. Holding a little tension on the print often helps too.
I have to use a sled with the Daige laminator. Running things through with a sled is a bit unhandy and cumbersome, especially with large prints, but once you get the hang of it, works ok.
With the Daige, I just cut the laminate to size, fold back about an inch along one end and stick it down the the end of the print. Tape the leading edge to the sled so it starts straight. Get it started in the machine, flip the laminate over the top, pull the backing off as you go, and run it through.
Not sure any of this helps, but you never know.
-------------------- Ace Graphics & Printing Camdenton, MO. USA
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This is cold lam and just top lam before sending back through 54" Roland for contour cut. I do believe it is the moisture in the air, Three people with the same lam have said the same thing. If the heat warrants it and we turn on the AC, it seems to work better. On cooler days we are going to try a dehumidifier in the print room. Thanks for the feed back.
-------------------- Rob Larkham Sign Techniques Inc. Chicopee, Ma Posts: 607 | From: Chester, Ma. | Registered: Apr 2002
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Interesting topic I have found one thing that helps me is I have a drafting table set at the same height as the intake on the laminator and I line everything up on the table and line up with the laminator. I also slow it down use the highest heat and increase tension on laminant.
Now with all that said every once in a while something goes wrong. Good Luck
-------------------- Steve Eisenreich Dezine Signs PO BOX 6052 Stn Forces Cold Lake, Alberta T9M 2C5 Posts: 774 | From: Cold Lake | Registered: Mar 2000
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I've got the same laminator. It's been a learning curve. I really think temp. and humidity are critical. When I run stuff I always keep tension on the outside of the print as it goes through.
-------------------- Tom & Kathy Durham House Springs, MO Posts: 654 | From: House Springs, MO | Registered: Apr 1999
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Blake, I'll trade you a $5000 laminator from china for your $700 Laminator from china....I'll throw in 6 or 8 wrinkled prints and a six pack of Old Milwaukee. I'll also pay the shipping.
signed, neener, neener, neener
-------------------- Rob Larkham Sign Techniques Inc. Chicopee, Ma Posts: 607 | From: Chester, Ma. | Registered: Apr 2002
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I end up in the same boat as Rob sometimes with my royal soveereign, I tend to think weather has a lot to do with it, I save them for first thing in the morning and have good luck.
-------------------- Jake Lyman Lyman Signs 45 State Road Phillipston, MA 01331 Posts: 635 | From: Phillipston, MA | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Tony McDonald: With the Daige, I just cut the laminate to size, fold back about an inch along one end and stick it down the the end of the print. Tape the leading edge to the sled so it starts straight. Get it started in the machine, flip the laminate over the top, pull the backing off as you go, and run it through.
Tony I just put you on the Christmas card list!! That's one of those "Why didn't I think of that?!" ideas. I'm all the time having to lam things like magnetics, "poster" sized prints, etc and I only buy my lam in 60". That take up mechanism is spectacularly unimpressive and the paper will not stick to it. One thing that I did on mine was to have the bottom roller solid rubber coated rather than using the soft sleeve. The jury is still out on if it was a good idea or if it was $215 down the drain. I also sprayed the in and out feed tables with silicone. I hate it when the lam sticks to the table and messes things up. Thanks a million for the tip.
-------------------- Ricky Jackson Signs Now 614 Russell Parkway Warner Robins, GA (478) 923-7722 signpimp50@hotmail.com
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Issac Newton Posts: 3528 | From: Warner Robins, GA | Registered: Oct 2004
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The take-up system on the Daige is horrible, I quit using it all together. They should use a round belt and smooth pulleys, instead of the toothed belt. That would allow it to slip a little when needed, instead of grinding and throwing the toothed belt off.
You coated the soft bottom roller?? With what, and how did you do it?
I've been using shower board from the lumberyard as a sled. Cut em' up to often used sizes like 36 x 48, and a full 4 x 8 sheet for large stuff. I have the 30" Versacamm...so the 4 x 8 can be cut down to 34" wide, makes it easier to handle. When the shower board gets scratched up, it's cheap and easy to get more.
-------------------- Ace Graphics & Printing Camdenton, MO. USA
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daige now uses a round belt and smooth pulleys we don't use the take up reel personally, we use the machine like a giant hinge application, leave a couple extra inches on the end of the print, tape hinge the lam, flip it over, lift the backing paper and run er thru p.s. wrinkles with any laminater are sometimes also caused by too much pressure on the rollers, if it happens at the final end of a large print it means ther is enough pressure to stretch the print and lam and the distortion catches up to you over distance.Replacing the cardboard take up tube with aluminum also helps because a warped tube puts uneven stress and pressure on the film every lap, and keep away from the bottom roller with sharp knives and fingernails. Our customers are split on whether they use the take up or not, but we switch between floor lam, 3 mil lam and vehicle wrap too often to be bothered webbing the machine. p.s.s. we sell both brands, the hinge method is easier on the daige, webbing and takeup is easier on the r.s. especially if you don't switch lams often
-------------------- Pete Payne Willowlake Design/Canadian Signcrafters Bayfield, ON
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I have an Arctic titan, & use it for 38" laminates far more often then my 52" materials, but we do use both. The 38" never gives any trouble, but the 54" threatens to. I've posted elsewhere about wrinkling issues & learned a little more about my own machine & a lot about general laminating troubles across the board. much of what I learned has to do with uneven roller pressure from the left & right sides. The rollers are designed to have a little crown in them, so the laminate, whatever size it is, should be centered perfectly to that crown.
If the gap is not equal on each side the pressure won't be equal, & this will give you troubles. If the gap IS equal, but the material IS NOT centered to the crown, this will produce a similar uneven pressure... once these issues are ruled out, tension on the supply roll can be another area for fine tuning, as well as tension adjustments on the kraft paper roll.
Most of my issues have been with wrinkling of the kraft paper that doesn't end up effecting my prints, but worries me that it will.
My version of the "sled" concept is to use paper sleds instead of kraft paper on my longer 54" wide prints. Since my lam is 52" wide, & I usually only have a 48" wide print area, on 54" media, I only need a 2 foot section of 54" wide paper to keep my laminate from sticking to the roller before my print feeds in... and then again at the other end of the print to follow it through enough to trim off the completed print.
Rob, have you ever tried the big squeegee?
All these people using hand cut sections of laminate might be interested to know the big squeegee seems to be almost as effective in finishing the job after manually starting the first inch, and less likely to mess up printes then the reports of some. I get satisfactory results applying laminate with my GBC arctic titan, but it's in a room that doesn't have enough space to feed in a rigid 4x8, or to receive one on the other end... so I use the big squeegee for mounting prints.
I cussed a lot the first time I used it... but that was all due to the fact that it worked so well I couldn't *&^#!ing believe how !*&^ good the thing was.
[ August 18, 2007, 12:24 AM: Message edited by: Doug Allan ]
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i had the same 55" machine a year ago when they 1st came out, it was one of the 1st one off there production line and it did the same dam thing the salesman/sales rep came out and he could not get the dam thing to work at all trashing prints right and left we sent it back to the factory and they sent me out a new 65" model (there older model)and it lams wonderfull....yet to mess up a print yet...to me the new 55" have some real problems....ship it back!!!!
-------------------- Aaron Haynes Aaron's Signs & Windows Napa Ca aa4signs@sbcglobal.net ------------ Important Rule For Life: "Look out for number one... Don't step in number two" ------------ If your never the lead dog on the sled...the scenery never changes. Posts: 241 | From: Napa Ca. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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Tony I hired a guy as manager that was the PA for Frito Lay for 15 years. Ever since we opened he ordered their signs from me (they still do). He had a ton of contacts that could do virtually anything industrial. He had a vendor that did roller coating for Frito Lay and hooked me up. He came by, picked up the roller, dropped it off about a month later and it was hard rubber coated - I wanted it much softer but I got what I got. I think it was about $215. (edited to add:) Daige should put a sticker on the outfeed table "If you cut on this roller you'll have to buy and new one" or something to the effect. I had messed up two rollers by the time I figured out the problem. The second time I didn't even realize I was touching the roller.
[ August 18, 2007, 01:19 PM: Message edited by: Ricky Jackson ]
-------------------- Ricky Jackson Signs Now 614 Russell Parkway Warner Robins, GA (478) 923-7722 signpimp50@hotmail.com
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Issac Newton Posts: 3528 | From: Warner Robins, GA | Registered: Oct 2004
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I hate it when the lam sticks to the table and messes things up. Thanks a million for the tip.
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