posted July 25, 2007 08:41 AM
We've noticed the loss in banner work and haven't been too concerned because they are generally a pain in the butt...but I met with a client the other day and she had a brand new banner lying on the floor ...well done I might add...when I told here we also do banners she asked what we charge ...going rate around here is 13 oz $7.00 a sq ft. 10 oz $6.00 a sq. ft.
"Way high she said" I asked what she gave and she told me she ordered it from "Banners on Line" I went to check it out...their banners run from $1.35 to $3.50 a sq.ft (fully lettered hemmed and grommeted.
I picked up two 3'x 8' blank banners yesterday from my supplier (hemmed and grommeted) my cost $1.08 a sq. ft.
So if my math is right I have to letter these for 27 cents a sq ft and give them to the customer for my cost in order to compete.
Please acknowledge...I aint that damned dumb! but I know who my newest wholesale supplier might be.
The money left on the table is mine.
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
posted July 25, 2007 10:23 AM
i hear ya monte. hell i even own a versacamm and sometimes i order my banners online for less than what i can do them for(hems and grommets too). if i have multiply banners or they're really big, i'm better off to design it and send it out(sorry to say). you should still be able to send them out mark them up and charge about $6 or $7 sq ft & make a profit. the woman you spoke with probably has someone in the office that designed it and then they can get it online for the same price as us...go figure eh. the only good thing is that alot of folks aren't designers and have no desire to go online to and research it. again in this really fast changing market its best to just find your niche and hang there.
[ July 25, 2007, 10:25 AM: Message edited by: KARYN BUSH ]
-------------------- Karyn Bush Simply Not Ordinary, LLC Bartlett, NH 603-383-9955 www.snosigns.com info@snosigns.com Posts: 3516 | From: Bartlett, NH USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted July 25, 2007 11:49 AM
People usually want banners the next day or by the weekend so I keep various common sizes of white banners with D ringed corners...no grommets......in stock. So they get them fast. Mine are 5.25 sqft for 10 oz and $6 for 15 oz....just lettering. Logos and extra colors are extra.
I just sold a 3x10 15oz, one color graphics, hp vinyl with a logo for $252. The banner cost me $32.60
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted July 25, 2007 12:13 PM
Well, Monte, a few years back I had a customer call me for a pricescreen printed jackets. When I gave him the price, I got told that another person had quoted him a price for the same jacket at the cost of the jacket, no charge for the screen printing or set up charges. I contacted the other printer, he said,"well I am retired from the Air Force and I just need something to occupy my time." To which I replied," that's nice but what about the guy who has to do it for a living?" He had no answer. Then you also have the jack-leg who has no comprehension of his costs or over head. "There is nothing that cannot be made a little worse and sold a little cheaper and those who shop by price alone are this man's lawful prey." Good Luck! Don
-------------------- Donald Miner ABCO Wholesale Neon 1168 Red Hill Creek Dobson, NC Posts: 842 | From: North Carolina | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted July 25, 2007 02:39 PM
Oh don't get me going on this one!! We invest a huge chunk of change in new technology and some whore somewhere is going to be doing it "online" for chump change. Talk about screwing up the entire industry!! Makes me just want to go back to being a gigolo.
-------------------- Ricky Jackson Signs Now 614 Russell Parkway Warner Robins, GA (478) 923-7722 signpimp50@hotmail.com
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Issac Newton Posts: 3528 | From: Warner Robins, GA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted July 25, 2007 02:47 PM
welcome to "the new sign industry" monte, run buy dimwits with a printer!!!!!!! they dont see money left on the table, all they see is VOLUME OF PRODUCTION!!!!!! macdonalds business model. i do very few baqnners anymore cause we got em here doin the same ...got a little money, lease/buy a printer...NOW WE IS IN BUSINESS..... And we are gona undercut everybody so we can get more business......there ya go. seen it with "newbie/shaky jakes, then the idiot with a computer and vinyl cutter.....N OW THESE IDIOTS GOT PRINTERS.......and most have less and less talent.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted July 25, 2007 02:55 PM
I knew an old sign guy down in Pensacola once; his hands shook like a leaf until he touched the keys on his keyboard.
-------------------- Ricky Jackson Signs Now 614 Russell Parkway Warner Robins, GA (478) 923-7722 signpimp50@hotmail.com
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Issac Newton Posts: 3528 | From: Warner Robins, GA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted July 25, 2007 03:24 PM
sorry jake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!))))))))))))))))
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted July 25, 2007 04:27 PM
Zorbix 10oz Banner .14 sqft 3x8= $3.36 Ink Usage/Cost .07-.10sgft 3x8= $1.68 Aunt Ester to Hem Banner $1.50 Hard Cost of Banner $6.54
Ok it took almost 30 Minutes to design including 15 min for a smoke. .5x$15per hour. $7.50 (I am making a killing at $15 an hour all my friends are still working at Micky D's) Hmmmmm Now My total cost is 14.04
Better add the cost of my printer. Ok lets see. My printer cost $12000. I own it 365 days a year so that works out to 8760 hrs that I could print so 12000/8760=$1.40 per hour.
Better add that to the banner. $15.40
(Hmm Yea that its I'll say it took an hour to print the client doesn't know.)
Cool...Now I'll Add .80 for grommets and shipping tube. Now I am at $16.20. Better add a profit for my growing Company.. HMMM Think I'll Double it Thats fair. $32.40
Tada.. Even you can make killing at $1.35sqft.
Thank you for reading "Big Bubba Weinstiens Sign Pricing for Dummies." Next week we will show how to make it rich in the Real Estate Coroplast Sign Market. (Hint its all in the Wire Stakes)
P.S. We are really at $7.50- $10.00 just for the printing.
posted July 25, 2007 07:02 PM
Monte..I can only make one recommendation..pack it in and retire to Mexico!!!
You can show me how to cook some of your great dishes and I'll buy you many cervezas for the lessons.
Might even let you swim in the pool!!!
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted July 25, 2007 09:38 PM
I send out more banners than I do in house now. When I can pay either $1 psf for a blank or $1.40 psf finished and delivered you better believe I'm sending them out.
-------------------- Pat Whatley Montgomery, AL (334) 262-7446 office (334) 324-8465 cell Posts: 1306 | From: Wetumpka, AL USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted July 25, 2007 10:34 PM
"Makes me just want to go back to being a gigolo."hahahahahahahahahahahhaha now i know why your in the sign business.....25 cents per service.....and you couldnt get any takers......)))))))))))))))))))))))))))
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted July 26, 2007 01:00 AM
welcome to "the new sign industry" monte, run buy dimwits with a printer!!!!!!! they dont see money left on the table, all they see is VOLUME OF PRODUCTION!!!!!! macdonalds business model.
First it was the plotter to cut into the signwriter's long learned trade, then the digital printer. Everyone becomes a sign maker, HeeHeeHee! With the new evolution that comes along, every trade will be effected!
For that price, I would not even unlock my shop door, after fifty years in the trade, I'd sleep late and watch soaps!
-------------------- Len Mort Signmaker1.com 11 Juniper Drive Millbury, MA 508-865-2382 "A Good Business Sign, is A Sign of Good Business"(1957) Posts: 811 | From: Millbury, Ma | Registered: Dec 2006
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The more these idiots move into the business and old brush hands retire the bigger price I put on my talent!
Honestly, there is still a huge demand for "Hand-made"
As for cost factor Bill ... add in the FU Factor! Friend of mine was printing a 30'x4' banner and had the power to his shop shut down less than a foot from the end!!!!!!!!
posted July 26, 2007 12:04 PM
...but the sky isn't really falling, because contrary to how it may seem to us who hear of these sins against our industry so often... themajority of people shopping for a banner don't know what to expect to pay, so I routinely charge $10/sq. ft.
My employee made $1000 worth the other day.... less then $90 in materials ...spit out another grand in high-margin decals yesterday ...just another day in the life of a printer owner.
posted July 26, 2007 02:41 PM
I hear you Bill & Doug.
I have a large format printer and make big money off it. Except it is a couple of blocks from me and run by a very talented and professional friend of mine. He's not cheap but good.
At the moment I have over $4G worth of 6'x 3' prints packed up in my workshop ready to ship out west to one of my customers. Artwork, burn disc, drop off, pick up, trim, pack and post amounts to $300+/hour clear profit with my mark-up price.
posted July 26, 2007 09:35 PM
I honestly don't know how they do it. I have a company that I work with that deals with digital and screen printing for the retail industry... department stores, etc... these guys are so cheap, I have no idea how they put food on the table sometimes. Must be a making up for it in quantity. I have had prices of less than $1 per sq ft. Fantastic quality , too. They don't do walk-in business, so they're impact on the local shops is negligable.
I, for one, am glad to have them on my speed dial.
-------------------- Joe Endicott NEXCOM (Navy Exchange Service Command) Signing Programs Specialist Virginia Beach, VA jeendicott@msn.com
"I want to be Stereotyped....I want to be Classified." Posts: 681 | From: Virginia Beach, VA USA | Registered: Mar 1999
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posted July 26, 2007 10:39 PM
Monte... check for a Made in China label. At very least the printer and substrate were probably made there. We all better start getting used to eating with chopsticks.
posted July 26, 2007 11:02 PM
...but the sky isn't really falling, because contrary to how it may seem to us who hear of these sins against our industry so often... themajority of people shopping for a banner don't know what to expect to pay, so I routinely charge $10/sq. ft.
My employee made $1000 worth the other day.... less then $90 in materials ...spit out another grand in high-margin decals yesterday ...just another day in the life of a printer owner. DOUG I LUV YA....BUT FOR YOU TO EVEN THINK YOURE IN THE SAME CROWD...as what most are talkin bout here......you aint.....)))))))))))))))))
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted July 28, 2007 08:46 PM
OP....hhhhmmm interesting comment.
Fear!...we have found the enemy and it is our selves....we must unite and rise up!
we struggle with this issue all the time.
What the market will bear. this is the driving force...the customers search for the cheapest sign is causing our compeditors to continually lower price to be the lowest bidder. "i can get it cheaper down the road." though over head and material cost and insurance keep going up!
perseaved value is another problem..just because something is produced by a machine...does this make it of less value? no.. but the customer thinks well he just pushed a button and out it came. there is a company down the street that is charging $6sqft and i know that is way to cheep...$10-$12 is what he should be charging but i have no control over his profit margin. Also..Not everyone in the sign industry has had the experance of learning good design.
the thing in my opinoin that seporates one company from another is customer service. the buying experiance. people will pay your asking price if you give your customer a high perseaved value buying experience and great customer service.
out sourcing is a good way to met your customers needs with out the big overhead price...picking your battles. we don't print Business cards and Flyers...but send them out with our designs. our profit margin is lower but so is the overhead in equiptment and we keep the customer in our shop.
Monte I feel your pain...your not alone.
Lovelady
-------------------- "We have been making house calls since 1992"
Chris Lovelady Vital Signs
NOW WITH 2 LOCATIONS! Tallahassee, Florida Thomasville, Ga.
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