-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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I looked up some MSDS info and the FAQ they offer.
here were some of the more "interesting" points...
Q. Can Lacquers be used over enamels?
A. Lacquers have a tendency to lift enamel surfaces. Lacquers will work over most fully cured enamels that have good film integrity. Test carefully in an inconspicuous area before proceeding.
"Tendency"???? By far the most idiodic advice ever given by a paint manufacturer.
Test all you want, it's gonna get destroyed. Aerosol lacquers are far to aggressive to even bother wasting your time try them over enamels, especially over DupliColor's own paints. They are inexpensive and not particularly quality paints. The failure rate is HIGH!!!
They recommend clearing over it and buffing. ??????????????? Given the known health hazards and toxicity of lacquers, why not just use a basecoat and clear that. Not saving any time or money using the lacquer and it's not gonna look any better/different in the end.
I honestly can't think of a single reason that anyone would want to use this stuff with so many safer and more cost efficient ways to get the same results. Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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Miami and south Florida has been and is the Interior design and furniture capital and home of ASID ( American Society of Interior designers )They have been painting furniture using lacquer forever. Even musical instruments use lacquer for painting. Lacquer has not been outlawed or banned but rather replaced by other paints in other fields. To say lacquer will fail or not last is just bogus. The only thing that fails us is insidious commentary by those who aren't in our craft only to do us injustice by frivolous bs in regards to our protection
Roger, Given the choice, I don't wanna get expose to any of the above, but this stuff isn't being marketed to professional body shops or sign makers. It'll be next to the chrome exhaust pipes, fiberglass spoilers and StreetGlow lights at the parts store and Wally World.
Taking that into consideration and seeing dozens of Duplicolor's low quality shade shifter and anodized paints failing off just about every Neon and Honda around this teeny little town, their target market is kids looking for a quick dress up on their cars.
I just have this mental picture of a kid pounding this stuff down on his much loved but somewhat old first car out in the yard on a warm, sunny day and watching the hood turn into cottage cheese when the heat, oxidized surface and lacquer paint mingle. Suddenly that $9.99 can becomes a $400 quote for a repaint at the body shop, which he'll never get because his part time summer job's just barely paying for the gas and insurance on it, later leaving him with jack squat for a trade in value on a better car. Heck, I can think of three kids in my neighborhood who trashed some NICE cars with this neo-effects stuff.
I guess it's my frame of mind this week. Gump got his license and his car's due to get here later today. Doesn't take much to figure out he's gonna want to dress it up a little. Who doesn't when they're 17 years old At least there's gonna be one kid around here who knows what NOT to use on his ride.
I've read it dozens of times on this BB and learned the hard way long ago...
You can put enamel over lacquer, but not lacquer over enamel.
I've also dealt with dozens of body shop owners who swear they had a hell of a time working with lacquers back in the day and won't go there again.
To answer you original question, OP... No, I haven't played with it and probably never will. I have a "tendency" to remember what can go wrong. Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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Good point Ray, Young body shop guys today are not being taught how to use laquers, only base and single stage systems.If the EPA took laguers off the shelves some years ago in the parts stores, why does Harley Davidson still sell you laquers?! I,m still using the camera system from the part store and having base coat mixed for Harley parts and having great results.( Harley will not give you there color codes) I remember usung laquers in the past and it's a very brittle paint.To me, base coats have the same carictaristics as laquers and the clears with the UV protection in them hold out to the elements pretty well.You also can not put euro' clears over laquer.( Just watch that stuff peal off faster than you put it on ) I know I won't go back to using laquers only from past experience and now knowing the base coat systems. (Just my input.)
-------------------- Dale Flewelling Art Attack Signs & Design Newport, NH Posts: 114 | From: Newport, New Hampshire | Registered: Dec 2001
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Just my 2 cents worth....I tried the Duplicolor Mirage system on a bike tank and it worked for me. I did the basecoat, and used the color changing paint for the flames (and even striped around the flames with 1Shot w/hardener) and cleared it. I did the tank just for a display in my shop and to check out the paint. I'm no expert, but it seemed okay to me.
-------------------- Kristie Byrnes Paintbrush Graphics 6126 Big Cut Rd. Mt. Carroll, IL 61053 rugbyrnes@hotmail.com (563) 357-7614 Posts: 90 | From: Thomson,IL | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
Harley is using PPG now and has been for that last couple years. Their paint codes are available, you just have to know somebody who knows somebody...
I'm not going to bother getting into an argument on here, I just know for a fact that enamels are better and more durable.
No, I haven't used the duplicolor, and won't.
Posts: 273 | From: Port St. Lucie, FL | Registered: May 1999
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I'm not going to bother getting into an argument on here, I just know for a fact that enamels are better and more durable.
No, I haven't used the duplicolor, and won't. ok so why even bother to post??????)))))) i was just axin for more input about the new laquer paint. i remember when guys used to paint their cars with 20-30 coats of hand rubbed laquer....AND IT WAS MORE DURABLE THEN the enamel paints of the day. iam with joey on the furniture...chinese/japanese furniture many years old....DONE WITH LAQUER still worth lots of money. i worked in a parts store when you still had a LAQUER paint that a lot of body shops used for spot panel repairs.....and i still have a few cans of it i used for AIRBRUSHING....before the AIR-TEX & DEKA paints. those who say it aint durable ...never painted with it. only problems i remeber with laquer paint was the WHEN ALL GM CARS WAS PAINTED WITH IT(50-60's)when the cars got old the paint would crack and craze....and if you wanted to repaint one with that paint problem you had to take it down to bare metal. iam up for shootin some of it......guess ill just try some and let ya know.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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I'm with Doug, I'll take enamel over lacquer any day. A good catalyzed acrylic enamel job will not only look as good as a lacquer job it will outlast it ten times over. No cracking, no checking and Oh yea, no waxing
Buffing???? who needs it? Learn how to handle the gun and you don't need to buff!
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
Since one person on here actually used it, why does anyone post???
George understands me, he never used it either!
We are just here letting you know WHY we don't/won't use it. There is no need to lay on 30 coats of enamel to get good durability... I personally use Urethanes but I farm the clearing out, due to it's chemicals.
As for lacquered furniture, the applications are different. They never sit in the elements and they were using ACTUAL lacquer, not the synthetic crap on the market for "automotive" use. I am comparing apples to apples...
I therefor am posting to help you save your money and since I have USED lacquer, Enamel and Urethanes, I can educate you why I/the industry use what we do.... Durability!
Do as Alan Johnson does, paint a panel and lay it out in the elements for a couple years and see what happens. Then let us know what you find out.
Posts: 273 | From: Port St. Lucie, FL | Registered: May 1999
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wildo roger over and out...................
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Doug and whoever, As most know I used urethanes all the time but I was just addressing your statement of Lacquer being banned which it isn't, now with that said I'll give you some insight of mine. Lacquer is outdated to a big extent in the automotive field granted because there are more deserving factors to take advantage of, all of which both you and others have stated. For the most part lacquer was used by custom painters well into the 90's for depth which was hard to get with other paints because of its fast curing time and most painters hadn't upgraded their education in the new paint field, so they cleared with urethanes after an intercoat clear. Both HoK and metalflake recommended this technique and was done often. Not many here actually do custom paint because this is a sign BB and in reality there weren't that many persons doing real custom paint back when lacquer was king and painters like Joe bailon who btw invented candy red paint were in their hayday. Yes alot has changed and the lead has been removed but what about the Isocyanites and that will change to. Our whole lives are about change but they are also about educating yourself to either follow these changes or live in the past. I sort of do both but in the not so far back past have taken in knowledge by educating myself from masters of paint as well as paint manufacturers right down to Meguires when they offered classes on how compounds were a thing of the past but yet are still used by those who haven't fully educated themselves
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At least there's gonna be one kid around here who knows what NOT to use on his ride.
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