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Dave, can I come over and play in your toy ... er... TOOL box?
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8738 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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Well gee, Dave, good luck. The way you berated me for my pricing techniques for CNC in my "Low Baller" thread, I was pretty sure you were an experienced CNC man with a steady and ongoing market for $150.00 - $200.00 a sq. ft., as some in here claim to be. Come to find out, you've never even turned one on! LOL!
I say this only because you stated in that thread that I was only here to "stir the pot and watch it cook" and that I "do that on other boards as well."
-------------------- Joe Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, IL 61764 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 538 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Aug 2005
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Mark, trying to start up another pot? You have to admit, your track record speaks for itself here. As far as other boards, I'll admit, I repeated a statement made by someone else and I don't know that for a fact, so I apologize for that statement.
But maybe you should re-phrase YOUR statement.
be·rate (b-rt) tr.v. be·rat·ed, be·rat·ing, be·rates To rebuke or scold angrily and at length.
I was never angry at you. I was encouraging you to not drop your original price, to price your work according to it's worth instead of what looks like a good profit on the surface. I'll stand by my comments as it was advise and was never meant to be a vicious attack.
And don't laugh at me because I've never turned on a CNC router. Since when does one require a router to make 3-D signs, or to know what they are worth? I've sandblasted over 300 signs in the past 8 years. I've hand carved many elements for a lot of other signs. I read SignCraft and Sign Business, especially the design / cost articles. I know what signs are worth and I will not cheapen my product. It doesn't matter what tool you use to make a quality sign, and the tool should not have a bearing on it's price.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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what... not talking 'bout the white sox this year?
..ok, maybe chinese?
at any rate... Dave, I envy you brother, as the sandman I have never got better advice on all things HDU, then I have from you in the last 5 years (not to mention sharing your work order forms when I upgraded mine) ... when a guy with as much integrity & letterhead spirit as you speaks... it's considered fact... but it never hurts when the guilty condemn themselves further in an attempted defense
edit: Doug, I hope the forms helped you develop something that works well for you.
Another guy to listen to is Sam Staffan. Man that guy really tests extensively the products he uses before he'll use them in a customers sign. He really knows his stuff. Sam and I talked for a couple hours when I stopped by his shop on my way down state. He amazed me with his product knowledge and techniques. If Sam tells me something, it's ready to be carved in stone.
[ July 13, 2007, 01:54 AM: Message edited by: Dave Sherby ]
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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Well I love a good debate, and I truly don't mind disguised insults such as from Mr. Allan. Not the first from him,...won't be the last. The internet is full of tough guys bravely typing on their keyboards and wanting to expound on others how the world should be. So it goes.
CNC ani't much different from running a vinyl plotter, Dave. Once you get the hang of it, it's child's play. I'm not talking about the exotic stuff that grandpa Dan and his ilk does. I'm talking about every day signs, usually 2.5D. If you are buying a CNC to carve dragons, trucks, trains and anything truly 3D, you'll need a niche market and a very good (and expensive), machine. What are you getting?
Ten years ago, CNC flat bed router machines were fairly rare and kinda special. I'm telling you right now that they ain't that way any more. They are getting as common as a vinyl plotter (if not as affordable), and the competition is getting stiffer by the day as more folks hook up with them.
I've worked in the sign business for over 30 years. I remember when plastic faced channel letters, for example, were very expensive. They are not anymore, and there are literally dozens of sweat shops around Atlanta that specialize in PFCL's and nothing else. You can't beat their prices, and they produce a good product. It's called "competition". They can't speak English, but when it comes to the bottom dollar, few customers care.
Your new CNC can take you far, Dave, because you are a "sign man". I have found my niche and I can compete because I know the business and speak the language. As I type this, some guy just quit his job at the factory and bought a ShopBot and is gonna make signs for a living. His machine will be for sale in about 6 months, mark my word.
posted
I know my machine will be kept busy. I'm not really going to be doing things much differently than I am now, just using a different tool. The machine is going to allow me to design stuff that would just be too time consuming to do by hand, and will do a better job than sandblasting.
After much research, my budget allowed me to buy an EZ Router. I've talked to several sign guys that have an EZ and they all thought it was a very solid machine. I also like the fact that they are a merchant here in Letterville.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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EZ routers rock, Dave. A good friend of mine just got one 3 months ago and I drooled when he showed it to me. They come ready-to-go, unlike a ShopBot that you gotta assemble. Very solid machine. My ShopBot is almost 10 years old (I got it used), with a wooden table frame and an antiquated driver system, but the old antique still does a good job and makes me lots of money. It's a bit slow, but then, so am I. :-)
What CAD program are you gonna use? I like SignLab 5, but my buddy swears by Enroute, which looked very user friendly. ArtCam Pro is good too, but for what I do, SignLab does it all.
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...after a string of positive support for a proud announcement by our long time friend.. you relished in the opportunity call him out for some old thorn souring your disposition here, in hopes to drag him and his thread down to your level...
"Internet tough guys"? ...you should be a chef... when you're not stirring the pot, you're calling the kettle black.
At midnight it's you're a liar Dave - good luck newbie!...then 3 hours later "Good luck, Dave, seriously."
"disguised insults"? you're kidding right?
...anyone reading this thread would immediately understand "the guilty condemn themselves further in an attempted defense" is a joke about you crying about NOT posting just to stir up trouble, while calling Dave a liar. There is nothing disguised there Mark, and you really can't call it an "insult", I'm just pointing at your own actions. If that feels insulting, there might be a lesson here for you.
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Well here we go. You still trying to teach me a lesson, Douglas??? What's between myself and Dave is little if none of your business. I never called him a liar. I stated that what he posted was a lie, and he admitted that he was unsure of his source. End of story. I have no problem with Dave. I do, however, have a problem with you, evidently.
Who the hell do you think you are? A moderator in here? An enforcer? Of what? Of how you think these boards should be like? Who's "cool" and who's "not"? What are you even doing in a thread about router tables? You're a "sticky guy". Go stick something, tough guy.
Let the records show that Mr. Allan has not only repeatedly attacked me in here, but has sent me hateful e-mails accusing me of "ruining Letterville" and "wanting to be the center of attention" and that I "post too much". He has over 7,000 post. I have maybe 500.
I'm excited for you. Let us know if we can be of assistance.
-------------------- Joe Crumley Norman Sign Company 2200 Research Park Blvd. Norman, OK 73069 Posts: 1428 | From: 2200 Research Park Blvd. | Registered: Sep 2001
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marky boy... you are quite the little drama queen now... & that must be the 10th time you've entered one of your "let the records show" diatribes... it's broken record tuck, and it's full of holes! ...your memory seems to fail you & now you are posting lies about me in Dave's thread. You do have a knack for trackin' mud wherever you go.
Have I angered you so much by simply observing you digging your own grave, that you must try to tarnish my reputation in an effort to raise up your own? I'm not sure how you make the distinction, but let my records show when you post lies about me, YOU ARE a liar. I thought that was basic English
I'm am all about what-you-see-is-what-you-get. I would never, & have never resorted to "hateful emails" ...to you OR anyone! Anyone here knows I'll tell you what I think right here, ...not in hiding. Your mixed up mind remembers when I counted 20-something posts by you in one of your famous all-about-me thread hijackings (kinda like where you're trying to take this one) ... but you already used my 6 year post totals against me on that score.. like anybody gives a damn... what you choose to do with your posts is far more important then how many you rack up, so rather then stoop to your level too much longer...
...I'll just let you know this "sticky guy" installed router cut letters just this morning ($3K for 24 sq. ft.) and did site inspection for an $8K channel letter job (dep. in bank) ..and sold $12K worth of 3-stage routed HDU to one client that I designed and will paint and install for 75% of the pie.
I'll have my own router one day, but I'm not overly impressed by your crowning acheivement of running one, when the lions share of the money is already coming my way for having the vision, the salesmanship & the connections!
quote:Originally posted by Mark Tucker: Well I love a good debate, and I truly don't mind disguised insults such as from Mr. Allan.
Mark, don't fool yourself... you DO mind ...so much so, that you just keep digging yourself deeper.
...and don't think I'm messing with your business with Dave. I wasn't talking to you when we were laughing about you condemning yourself. I only started addressing you after you spoke to me, but for gods sake, let it rest now
You know from speaking to me how much it will help and take of the pressure.
If you have any questions on steps that I have used give me a call.
Here is some havin fun with the router stuff.
-------------------- Sam Staffan Mackinaw Art & Sign 721 S. Nokomis St. Mackinaw City, MI dstaffan@sbcglobal.net Posts: 1694 | From: Mackinaw City, MI | Registered: Mar 2004
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Lets see if we can't find some common ground where we can agree.
Lets celebrate the good news of Dave's CNC.
-------------------- Joe Crumley Norman Sign Company 2200 Research Park Blvd. Norman, OK 73069 Posts: 1428 | From: 2200 Research Park Blvd. | Registered: Sep 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Joe Crumley: Come on boy.
Lets see if we can't find some common ground where we can agree.
Lets celebrate the good news of Dave's CNC.
Right on, Joe. CNC ain't nothing but fun. Dave, when you first get it and fire it up, you'll stand there slack-jawed, like we all did, until you realize that it's doing all the work while you can go do something else. Personally, I go fishing.
Thanks for posting the O'Reilly's sign. I bet it's even more inpressive to see.
How did you install on the rock wall and whats the size. I don't see any seams.
-------------------- Joe Crumley Norman Sign Company 2200 Research Park Blvd. Norman, OK 73069 Posts: 1428 | From: 2200 Research Park Blvd. | Registered: Sep 2001
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Joe, heading out the door but I will post in Portfolio with information on it shortly.
Don't want to pull this off of Daves Router High.
-------------------- Sam Staffan Mackinaw Art & Sign 721 S. Nokomis St. Mackinaw City, MI dstaffan@sbcglobal.net Posts: 1694 | From: Mackinaw City, MI | Registered: Mar 2004
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Dave, just wanted to thank you for your purchase and your time. When you recieve the machine if you have any questions what so ever, just let me know...and we will do all we can to help.
thanks
-------------------- Jacob Head Mineola, Texas Posts: 8 | From: Mineola, Texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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Congrats, Dave. We'll be looking forward to seeing what you can do with your new baby. The guys here want one in the worst way, but we are going to have to add another 10-30 ft. on to the garage part of the buildings to accomodate it, so it might be a while...
-------------------- Jane Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, Il. 61764 815-844-7024 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 4102 | From: Pontiac, IL USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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Grats Dave. Router looks great and with your design talents you are going to be a formable foe in the Router wars. Best of luck with your machine.. Looks like a nice one may have to give them a call as I am debating on a second machine.
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