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I recently installed a 3mm dibond fascia sign, mounted directly onto a flat wall. I did not frame the sign because, as is usually the case, my customer wanted an inexpensive sign. Instead, I used screws thru drilled holes at 18" spacing. In the hot weather, the dibond has been buckling. I thought about placing a wood frame around the sign but a local contractor suggested that might not be a good idea as water will get in between the wood and the dibond and eventually rot/warp the wood. Does anyone have any suggestions about how I should have mounted this and how I can avoid the buckling in the future? On another note, I am looking for a material that would be suitable for golf course directional signs. These signs will be installed low to the ground and sublect to abuse from golf carts driving over them, plenty of watering and even from varmits chewing on them. Does anyone know of a supplier for a rubber based substrate that might work for me? Thanks for your help.
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I'm always concerned with expansion and contraction of any flat panel material and especialy when placed against a wall. Expansion is just a fact of life and can be easily delt with.
The last few years I've been using the Panel Clip concept with success. These fixtures allow plenty of material movement and don't mess up the surface with holes.
There is a slight downside to this process. It leaves your panel approx. 1/4" off the surface. The upside is, that gap allows moisture and heat a way to escape.
-------------------- Joe Crumley Norman Sign Company 2200 Research Park Blvd. Norman, OK 73069 Posts: 1428 | From: 2200 Research Park Blvd. | Registered: Sep 2001
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Joe's suggestion is best of all, however you may be able to redrill the holes larger and reinstall. Don't tighten the screws, let the sign rattle a bit.
It takes very little expansion to translate into a huge amount of buckling. To visualize it, take a wooden yardstick on a table and push the ends together 1/8 inch and notice how high off the table it got in the middle. Flat sign panels are trying to do the same thing.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5089 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I like to back-frame Dibond with square aluminum tube. It makes for a rigid sign that is still lightweight.
Brad in Kansas City
-------------------- Brad Ferguson See More Signs 7931 Wornall Rd Kansas City, MO 64111 signbrad@yahoo.com 816-739-7316 Posts: 1230 | From: Kansas City, MO, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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We've never had trouble with expansion and contraction of Dibond. And I do mean NEVER. We've used it for over 11 years now. Wood frames behind Dibond for murals, aluminum frames behind. Galvanized steel stud walls behind. And every conceivable direction - south, west, etc. No noticeable movement or buckling in any of those instances. It's not supposed to move much - if any.
Location matters too. South facing for the sign? West? You're in Canada so this may not matter, but we're here in the Midwest with temp swings usually in the -10 to 100 degree range at the extremes. Usually teens to 90's on average. That can make a difference also - though I'd guess not in your situation.
But your definition of 'buckling' may be less than mine is. Is it puckering out 1/4" Or 2"?
Also, you didn't mention if the Dibond was dark, light or otherwise. What's the design - or what color is the Dibond? That will have some impact also.
You need to contact Alcan Composites and find out what the problem is if no reliable trend is established through this discussion. Then let us all know what the answer is, please. Thanks!
-------------------- Jay Allen ShawCraft Sign Co. Machesney Park, IL jallen222@aol.com http://www.shawcraft.com/
"The object of the superior man is truth." -Confucius Posts: 1285 | From: Machesney Park, IL, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Another point: Not all aluminum composite panels are of the same quality. We have found some of the cheaper brands to have inconsistencies in the core, soft spots. Would this contribute to buckling? I don't know.
Sometimes you hear the cheaper brands called Dibond, just as some call all polycarbonates Lexan. If it's not made by Alcan it's not Dibond.
Brad in Kansas City
-------------------- Brad Ferguson See More Signs 7931 Wornall Rd Kansas City, MO 64111 signbrad@yahoo.com 816-739-7316 Posts: 1230 | From: Kansas City, MO, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I was as puzzled and concerned as Jay - I have dozens and dozens of dibond signs out there, and cross my fingers, no one has brought any problems like this to my attention. I've framed them in various ways; my favorite is to mount dibond on a square-aluminum frame, then build a box frame around the outside with cedar. I use this system as a background panel for gilded Gemini letter signs and they've held up well for some years now without problems.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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