I have a past customer (from 1 year ago) that lives in Rural Alberta (farm) that cam eto see me 2 months ago to get herphon number changed. Just 2 numbers actually in A9 White vinyl on both side windows of her Jeep. A week later, she came in and said that the letters were laying on her driveway next to her Jeep. I scratched my head but, for what it was worth, I cut 2 more and replaced them. I just got an email from her this morning that says,
"I am having trouble with letters peeling off. None are the ones you just changed and I haven't washed the Jeep since I was there last."
Well, perhaps it is because she hasn't washed her Jeep on a farm in 2 months but, I really just want some advise on how to talk with this customer.
I should certainly tell her to bring the Jeep by but, do I charge her to do it over (it has been 13 months)? Do I question what SHE is doing or not doing that may be linked to the letters peeling up? Do I explain to her that I am a little baffled since she is 1 of 1000 vehicles that we have done with this problem (which wasn't there when I replaced the number change 2 months ago).
Any advise is greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time.
posted
I had problems with 6 Ford F-150'S 3 years ago the logos would not stay on, they all came from the factory at once and were the same color. Tried prep-sol, rapid-prep, and laquer thinner to clean the doors. Nothing worked. Finally gave up and put it on the windows. Afterwards I was told by the Ford dealer a batch of trucks had went through the factory that got a different clear coat and this was effecting vinyl application. I thought this was bogus as the factory stickers were staying on. Haven't had this happen since, we were using Oracal and 3M high performance vinyls.
-------------------- Silver Creek Signworks Dick Bohrer Two Harbors, MN Posts: 236 | From: Two Harbors, MN USA | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
You are putting them on the windows, right? I would be real frank with the customer and tell her you want to solve her problem, but you also don't understand WHY this is happening...I would try to solve the puzzle of WHY they weren't sticking. I wouldn't think it's because she didn't wash the vehicle. In fact, how they were washing it would be one of the first questions I would ask. Did she apply them or did you? Did she park it in the sun and they heated up excessively? Was it just faulty vinyl? Did it happen on ALL of the vehicle or just in areas? It could be that there was some sort of glass treatment put on there that makes the water sheet off and it is also doing the same thing to her vinyl. Maybe then you can put it on the body of the vehicle instead of the windows, that might solve the problem.
Ask a lot of questions. Hopefully she will see that you are really trying to help her and that you are just as baffled as she is. Let us know what you find out...
-------------------- Jane Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, Il. 61764 815-844-7024 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 4102 | From: Pontiac, IL USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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There is a product called Rain-X that a lot of folks use on windshields and glass, to increase visability when it rains or snows...it causes water drops to become non existant while the water cascades down the glass in a smooth flow, which makes it easier to see during bad weather.
I'd be willing to bet you have been working on glass that has been treated with a similar product.
I had a mud truck once that had Rain-x all over the front windshield. I noticed a problem when I couldn't tape the vinyl (yes, jeff ogden just used the v-word) Anyhow, it looked like a silicone problem to me.
So I used Rapid Rogers stuff, then I used a wax and silicone remover like Prep-Sol, although it was a Ditzler product, and when I STILL couldn't get masking tape to stick, I went back to the shop and got out the artillery. After all, it's just glass, right.
So armed with a roll of paper towels, and a 5-gallon bucket(I like to be neat), I proceeded to wash and wipe, with alcohol,toluene, xylol, wash lacquer, good lacquer, and finally MEK.
I still was having problems sticking tape on that glass, but now it was adhering just a little bit.
So I decided I was just dealing with a tuff product, so I persisted, and did about 4 more wash and wipe series with just the MEK, using a terrycloth towel and alot of elbow grease.I was close to using a 3-M scotchbrite pad, but didn't want to scratch the windshield.(Ha ha...on a mud truck, right)
Anyhow, after about an hour of aggrevation, I finally got the darned stuff off, whatever it was.
The sponsor's name is still on the glass, after several years of mud-bogging, so I guess I've done all I can do.
-------------------- Jeff Ogden 8727 NE 68 Terr. Gainesville FL, 32609 Posts: 2138 | From: 8827 NE 68 Terr Gainesville Fl 32609 | Registered: Aug 2002
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We had a similar problem a while back. One side window was fine, the other side the letters kept lifting. Turns out it was a replacement piece of glass - so I would echo Jeff's comments - we're convinced it was some kind of treatment on it that prevented it sticking.
-------------------- Graham Parsons Signs 'n Such Ltd Swift Current Saskatchewan Canada. www.signsnsuch.com
"Saskatchewan - hard to pronounce, easy to draw" Posts: 710 | From: Saskatchewan, Canada | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
If she doesn't belive you when you tell her it isn't your fault, and you need to charge extra to clean the whatever it is off; just have her read this post!
posted
You did say you were changing a few numbers, so there was already vinyl on the glass that stayed? If that's the case a Rainex treatment may be the culprit.Did you test the vinyl on some other glass?
posted
The A9 White is merely affected. I have a "turtle graphic that is still well intact. Just the A9 and at 2 separate times. It couldn't be faulty both times...what are the odds??
posted
I had the same problem just recently on 3 separate vehicles. I had cleaned the glass with Rapid Prep. Now whenever someone wants lettering on the windows of their vehicle I tell them I'll do it but won't garantee it. No sense redoing work for free when when we don't know what the problem is to begin with.
Dan
-------------------- Dan Marquis Marquis Signs Lewiston, Maine dan@marquissigns.com Posts: 118 | From: Lewiston, Maine, USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
I remember problems with RainX type products on some windows I was gilding. After trying everything I could think of, I walked. Rick Glawson helped me for days trying to rid the problem to where we could stand behind it, but we never got there. He lectured me in the wonderful manner so many of us dearly miss, about glass having a porus surface and the cleaning was getting the surface clean and not the stuff in the pores. I don't think I like that stuff.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6712 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
A couple of ideas, yes, I'll bet its treated with Rain-x, you can use Rapid Prep like this;
1- spray liberly with Rapid Prep, let it sit at least 1 minute, now wipe with "cheap kitchen paper towels" (no, no bounty,viva or anti lint anti static).
2- VERY IMPORTANT, clean again two times with Rapid TacII and more "cheap paper towels", you must ALWAYS clean with the application fluid (Rapid Tac or TacII) after cleaning with ANYTHING else prior to application !
Jeff, they spray those mudders with armorall, silicone, polymers, anything that keeps the mud from sticking.
Roger
-------------------- Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated 186 Combs Dr. Merlin Oregon 97532 Posts: 3020 | From: Merlin Oregon | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
ya gotta ask why a person would put RainX on her back side windwos on her Jeep. The back and front are no brainers but, the side back windows?
Yeh, Roger, we go through Rapid Tac like crazy here. I am going to go on a hunt to find some Rapid Prep up here. Either that or give you a shout. Have I been gone that long? Weren't you living in Hawaii?
Hey, I really like pondering the thought of not guaranteeing it on windows.
posted
Cory, it's not your fault. If the original letters are sticking, something has contaminated the vehicle since it was first lettered. It's not your fault. Like Roger pointed out, they spray these things with just about everything. It's not your fault. You can drive ourself crazy with something like this. It could be something her husband or son applied. She could have taken it to a detail shop. The vehicle could be losing some sort of fluid. If it is just one color of vinyl that is coming off, switch brands.
As far as how to handle her, that's going to be up to you. I guarantee ALL my work. I've found fixing the problem is a whole lot easier than getting a customer who has stuff falling off to understand it's not my fault
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
Corey, you will notice poor bonding(especially on glass) if you clean with the following; window cleaners, wax&grease solvents, lacquer thinner, mineral spirits, 409, even alcohol.
Alot of contamination can be caused also from what you wipe with; cloth rags, lint free/static free paper towels(comercial grade)so many people actually contaminate a surfase by the methods they choose to clean.
Corey, call "Interior Crafts" in Kamloops, they can help you find the Rapid Prep.
posted
I have A-9 on the rear window of my truck, the tiniest of script letters too. It is holding on no problem. Roger has some good stuff I would try what he suggests.
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