posted
I didn't want to hijack the other thread but I thought it would make for some good dialog, especially since I don't seem to understand what the problem is between our two countries. I didn't intend for this to get so wordy but it just kept getting bigger and bigger. My appologies. A post from Stephen D.: quote: What I don't get is out of one side of their mouth they're talking about "removing the borders" and out of the other side of their mouth they're talking about getting even stricter about letting people in (Can-US, US-Can).
As Canadians,.. We have been accused of allowing people to migrate between borders.
We still own the 49th parallel. So as your neighbour we will try our best to secure both ways of entries.
Not all is secure! But we are doing our best to make life easy on this side of the planet.
I've been to Canada many times, and I've been to Mexico many times. We are neighbors, not known for terrorizing each others countries. I know there are differences and the differences are what I paid to enjoy - not the sameness. One of the sweetest memories of my life (and I know it was a simple pleasure) was riding from Windson to Toronto on the CN train, eating raspberries the size of grapes, looking at scenery I had never seen before. We shopped til midnight in Toronto, took the trip down to the falls and had a wonderful time. The last time I went... ok, the time before last, I got the usual questions from the customs guy, smiles and "Welcome to Canada, eh?" I don't know if there is something political going on between our countries that I'm not aware of or not. I'm not a very political person; I think they are all scumbags. Call me a simpleton but I had this notion that we were "neighbors", soverign countries yes, but neighbors nonetheless. I liken it to going over to your next door neighbors house; you don't just walk in unannounced but you're welcome to come in after knocking and the homeowner answers the door.
I'm probably not making a lot of sence here so let me say it plainly: I love Canada and I love my Canadian friends - period. I think you guys are some of the most wonderful, talented, funniest, incredible people that I've ever been blessed to meet. I don't sit and watch the 6 O'Clock news so I don't know if there is something between your country and ours. I understand there was some bad blood about the mad cow thing but honestly I don't know anything about it. All I know is that I wish things were like they were 5 years ago between us.
I'm a pretty transparent guy and when I left to move to Alaska last year about this time I told my intentions on this board. I've known many of my Canadian friends for many many years and had never had a cross word with them. After a year of reflecting on things, I feel very strongly that I was a victim of political sniping. As I understand, it works both ways and it's just wrong. I admit that I made a mistake in taking a pistol into Canada but it was an honest mistake - not smuggling. The pistol was so deeply packed that it took the customs officers over an hour and a half to retrieve it. If I had kept my mouth shut, there is no way the pistol would have been found, not even with the X-ray.
I was totally unaware that I had broken a law. The truth is that I was pretty unaware of just about anything; I had driven for 17 straight hours and my brain was hitting on it's last cylinder. My goal was to spend the night in a Canadian hotel that night. It cost me a $700 pistol, a $1,000 fine, 7 hours in the Dudly "Do-Right hotel", and I wasn't allowed back into Canada.
What I went thru wasn't as bad as a lot of Americans; many of us (not me) got arrested for DUI as stupid teenagers or young adults, paid for our mistakes, learned not to be stupid, and grew up to become responsible, contributors to our society. Thanks to the new information sharing between our countries, if an elderly couple tries to drive their RV into Canada and he got arrested for DUI 60 years ago, he's not allowed into the country. It wasn't an offence against Canada and he paid for his crime so what's the big deal?
Either we trust each other or we don't. We either work to make things better between our countries or we make them worse. It's hard being an American sometimes. We are seen as the arrogant, playboy policeman of the world. I don't know about the other Americans on here but I didn't vote for that and I, for one, hate our foreign policy. We should keep our noses out of other countries business and stop trying to manipulate them.
I've heard this several times "Those dang Mexicans are taking over!" I look at them and ask them "Would you like to take over their jobs working in chicken houses, laying brick, or any of the other miserable jobs they do?" That usually brings a new perspective to it. We can't afford to lose our close ties to Canada and the border pizzing contest is a part of it. Our leaders pat each other on the back while the lower echleon storm troopers "protect" our borders against petty bullcrap like "smuggling" Cuban cigars into America. A $30,000 fine for that??? Come on!
I know I'm not making much of a point here but I hope that you understand what I'm trying to say. There are policies on both our sides that need changing; things that are rediculous and unnecessary between two supposedly friendly nations. I'd love to hear what others think about this. Don't be too quick to pass judgement on me; the honest mistake that I made could very easily happen to you in some other form. They may decide to outlaw bringing hockey sticks into the country and stick a Post-It note where you can't see it til it's too late. Once again, I love you guys and it leaves a hole in my heart to know that I may not ever be able to go back. Sorry about being so long-winded.
[ May 15, 2007, 10:02 AM: Message edited by: Ricky Jackson ]
-------------------- Ricky Jackson Signs Now 614 Russell Parkway Warner Robins, GA (478) 923-7722 signpimp50@hotmail.com
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Issac Newton Posts: 3528 | From: Warner Robins, GA | Registered: Oct 2004
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This isn't politics is it ? I don't want to get in trouble for participating in political posts again. I guess even Letterville has it's rules!
I myself am probably trapped here in America as my life prior to 1985 was reckless and I racked up a mistermeaner or two. In fact here in my home state of Mass. I can't own a firearm unless it's a muzzleloader. As we have gun laws that are ridiculous. I had a gun permit then 5 years ago they enacted a new law, and when I reapplied the tried to come and confiscate my firearms. I reminded them of the 4th amendment. Not the 2nd as they dispute that one,and I was able to transfer my firearms to a relative the next day.
As far as the border goes since it may be easier for terrorists to enter Canada or Mexico, I for one do think we need controls at the boarder.
Don't get caught here in Mass with a pistol in your trunk unless you first get a temporary permit, and have the ammo in another location , have it locked, and in a box with a lock.
Often we forget that States are sovereign. They are and they all have slightly different laws regarding things like firearms, and motor vehicle rules. We need to be aware of these things when we travel!
I'm not the poster boy for gun rights, as the final reckless act I committed on Sept 13 1985,was to try to open a friends front door with a 12ga. shot gun. 8 years later I was allowed to have a fire arm. Then 5 years ago as I said a new law changed that.
My biggest grip would be that if you haven't been in trouble for 10 or 20 years you shouldn't be ostracized for the rest of your life.
I went to Canada once and it was great. I wish I could go again, but as you say with the new record systems one look at me and it would be American go home.
Here in America there is more than I could see and do in a life time, so I guess I need to be grateful for that.
As far as Cuban cigars goes, that guy Castro is on his death bed, and will die soon, then we can get all the cigars we want. I'm glad they were banned while he was there leader as we do need to stand up against tyranny.
[ May 15, 2007, 11:10 AM: Message edited by: Dana Stanley ]
posted
I guess I wasn't even thinking in terms of "politics" when I posted this thread; it was just something I've been wanting to express for several months and since tomorrow is the anniversary of my leaving for Alaska, I thought I'd do it today. Funny how you get tunnel vision sometimes. Even tho you may like to think that everybody is like you, they aren't. You can have all the guns you want in Georgia unless you've done something really bad; come on down Dana, LOL.
-------------------- Ricky Jackson Signs Now 614 Russell Parkway Warner Robins, GA (478) 923-7722 signpimp50@hotmail.com
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Issac Newton Posts: 3528 | From: Warner Robins, GA | Registered: Oct 2004
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I think I know somewhat how you feel Ricky. For me to be banned from the states would feel like a choke hold. Even if I never went to the states again, I sure don't want to be told I can't go by someone else.
Can something like this be appealed in some way? Are you also banned from going abroad or is it just Canada?
posted
...Ricky, on the six oclock news they said that It IS politics.
...(Idealistically) I think everybody should be able to travel freely over any border whenever they want. But (realistically) we have to 'protect' our resources and interests, and borders are logically the natural first line of defense. Fair or not, people posessing weapons or w. previous weapon offences have to be restricted. I agree that our current administration has terrible foreign policys and is deliberately distracted from other vitally pressing national problems (like our health and education), but it's too late to change their cowboy, crusader agenda. I just hope they don't screw things up too much... or too much more.
...And hey, Playboy Policeman would be a great job! You'd get to subdue perps and have three girlfriends!
posted
In Canada if you have a record from your youth, you can get a lawyer and get your record wiped. That is, if you have kept your nose clean for so many years. My brother-in -law (who now is the comptroller for a large city) had his record wiped so he could travel abroad on business. There was a number of things on his record, among them he had gone into a Pizza Joint, with a 12 guage and threatened to blow another guy's head off. (As it turned out the "other guy" ended up marrying his sister, and is now another brother-in-law of mine, but that's a long gruelling story I won't get into right now.) But his crimes were committed in Canada, and it took a Canadian pardon to open any and all borders for him. Without getting his record cleaned up he couldn't leave the country. I don't know whether you can get a pardon from the Canadian gov't for your gun smuggling incident but if it really means that much to you perhaps you could try Ricky.
-------------------- Deri Russell Wildwood Signs Hanover, Ontario
You're just jealous 'cause the little voices only talk to me. Posts: 1904 | From: Hanover, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Dec 1998
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Ricky, I don't think the problem is with the average Canadian or the average American going to visit each other. The problem is with ill minded people using our friendly relationship and easy border crossings for their own sick plans. So here we are, everybody paying the price for a few black sheep. Aren't you getting used to that? It's been like this since grade school: one guy gets caught smoking...and you're all not going on the class trip.
We can't allow these things to get us down and possibly upset at each other. In fact, I think it's not as bad as we make it sound here. Get a passport and come to Moose Jaw, it shouldn't be a big deal for most of you (except Ricky,you can't come, sorry )
posted
EYYYYYYY MAYBE....its more canadian politics then U.S))))))))))))))))it slide this far......
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Donna from what I was told I will have to wait several years before trying to get a pardon. Even at that I seriously doubt they will see that it was a simple honest mistake. I can go anywhere in the world except for Canada.
Bily I agree with you wholeheartedly.
Deri, that just goes to show you there are rednecks in Canada too, LOL.
Ray I didn't bring up illegal immigration and it wasn't really meant to be a political issue even tho on the surface it seems that way.
Lotti you summed it up beautifully with your analogy. I'd love to come to Moose Jaw but I'd better settle for the Moose Dropping Festival in Talkeetna, Alaska. At least I can fly there.
Dana this is definately more geographical and sociological than political. If I had wanted it to be political I could have made it that way.
OP I think politics is politics, makes no difference where they live or what party they are part of.
I appreciate you guys reading my post and giving your thoughts.
-------------------- Ricky Jackson Signs Now 614 Russell Parkway Warner Robins, GA (478) 923-7722 signpimp50@hotmail.com
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Issac Newton Posts: 3528 | From: Warner Robins, GA | Registered: Oct 2004
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Ricky it is too bad that the laws have no grey area but I do not see it getting any better. I am sure your intent was not criminal. Did you actually have a trial?
-------------------- Steve Eisenreich Dezine Signs PO BOX 6052 Stn Forces Cold Lake, Alberta T9M 2C5 Posts: 774 | From: Cold Lake | Registered: Mar 2000
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They set a trial date in Saskatchewan for less than a month from the date of my infraction. It took me a week to get back home and after three more weeks of visiting the Canadian Consulate in Atlanta, calling lawyers, the Embassy, and anybody else I felt could help me put a case together, the trial date came in went and I wasn't there. If I had gotten the same treatment in court that I got by the border patrol and the RCMP and the "minister" of whatever, there is no doubt that I would have spent jail time and probably lost everything I had ever worked for. Sorry to say but after that happened I had no delusions of a fair trial. As bad as I hated not showing up for the trial, I had no possibility of putting my case together. To me it was a slam dunk, open and shut case but since the border patrol, the RCMP and the minister of whatever felt that I was smuggling a pistol into Canada - even tho I told them about it as soon as I saw the "All firearms must be declared" sign on the door - it was survival for me and my family that I did not go back and have the trial. There is not a doubt in my mind that I would have wound up in a cell had I gone back. I talked to a judge in Atlanta and he told me that I was way down on the priority list of fugitives and it wouldn't be worth their time to come down and get me. What part of (1) I had driven for 17 straight hours and was very very groggy (2) the officer asked me if I had "any weapons in THE vehicle". The way I understood it he was asking if I had any weapons in the *truck* - not the trailer I was pulling. It's easy for some to see that he might have been talking about both the truck and the trailer but please refer back to #1 - very very groggy. (3) I told the officer inside about the pistol; totally unaware of what I was getting myself into. Why would I have done that if I were actually smuggling? (4) the pistol was for one purpose only - bear protection in Alaska. If you work in the bush in Alaska you NEED bear protection and a pistol is the best. (5) I am sniper qualified, a marksman. There is nothing that I could hit with a pistol that I couldn't hit with a rifle; a pistol is not very accurate over distance. (6) It was in a case, in the bottom of a steel toolbox. It took two customs officers 90 minutes just to get to the pistol, not exactly where I could get my hands on it. It was simply a matter that they didn't believe me - for whatever reason I don't know and for that reason alone I didn't go back to stand trial.
When I went back across with my "personna non-grata" papers from Canada, I had to go thru the grilling with the American customs guys. That's where I learned that there was some bad blood between "us and them". For some strange reason the American customs guys understood how I made the mistake and that it was an honest one. I'm just stating facts here, not being mean.
It wasn't until I got home and posted my saga that I got emails about how things had gone terribly wrong for some Canadians coming into the U.S., most of which made my situation seem insignificant by comparison. I had a buddy when we lived in D.C. that flew for the Canadian "Desert Cats" in the gulf war; he was in the Marines. It's not like we're different species; we share a border for crying out loud, not to mention a lot of history, friendships, and a lot of great hockey games and World Series baseball.
-------------------- Ricky Jackson Signs Now 614 Russell Parkway Warner Robins, GA (478) 923-7722 signpimp50@hotmail.com
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Issac Newton Posts: 3528 | From: Warner Robins, GA | Registered: Oct 2004
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It does sound ridiculous to me Ricky. In my case I don't have a leg to stand on, as I did do something really stupid. But you came right out and told them what you had. They should have locked up your pistol at the border, and told you to pick it up on your way back.
posted
I feel sory for you Ricky. It was an honest mistake. I made the exact same one 30 years ago and got away with it!
In the early 70's I spent a year in Southern California. My wife and I and another Australian friend then did a camping trip down into Mexico and then right up the West Coast to Canada.
We had a .38 (for security at night) rolled up in a sleeping bag in the locked luggage box we built on the roof rack of the car.
Did have a very close call with a Mexican road block looking for drugs and pistols .... they didn't find anything! I think their search was abruptly teminated by the sight of a Hippy Van pulling into line behind us !
Anyway we arrived at the Canadian border south of Abbortsford BC and I honestly clean forgot about the gun, and didn't declare it. It was my mate's anyway and he too didn't realise it was illegal.
We did return back across the border later and left it with a friend in Seattle rather than risk problems in Canada.
As for the passport requirements nowdays that is not restricted to USA/Canada. For years you were able to fly back and forth between Australia and New Zealand without a passport on proof of citizenship ... a driver's licence was sufficient. I made several trips on that basis.
Then they brought in passports between Australia and New Zealand and I was amazed to find out although I was raised in New Zealand and had been there for 20 years I was not a citizen because my British Family had never applied! I wasn't even British Citizen until I applied for that either because I was born in India!
Cut a long story short, that stopped my trip to Australia in it's tracks. But to get any passport in a hurry I had to get British, then New Zealand Citizenships. A costly and frustrating exercise. The British Passport arrived just in time for me to fly to USA and the Kiwi one was forwarded to me so I could get back into New Zealand and Australia without a limited Visa!
posted
After the shabby way the Canadian border goons held me and wouldn't let me into their country last summer (for sins committed 30 years ago!) I really don't ever intend to bring my tourist dollars again.
We have discovered our own parks and recreations on our side of the border are just fine and a lot less travel time.
-------------------- Frank Smith Frank Smith Signs Albany, NY www.franksmithsigns.com Posts: 807 | From: Albany, NY USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Frank, there's honestly no difference in how you're treated by customs & immigration on either side of the border. If you've been in trouble with the law, & haven't rec'd a pardon, the other country simply doesn't want you. I've crossed the border probably over 1000 times in the last 30 years, most crossings being very uneventful. Not all criminal charges lead to exclusion. Things may have changed, but the US was only concerned with "crimes of moral turpitude", which didn't include DWI. Also, Canadians convicted of a crime who have recieved a Queen's pardon, can still be refused entry to the US - a US pardon is required as well. There are several lawyers in Buffalo, for instance, who specialize in this service, aimed mostly at truckers who did something dumb when they were young. Generally, US customs is more concerned about what you might be up to while in their country, & Canadian Customs is more concerned about firearms.
-------------------- Rodger MacMunn T.R. MacMunn & Sons C.P.207, Sharbot Lake, ON 613-279-1230 trmac@frontenac.net Posts: 472 | From: Sharbot Lake, Ontario | Registered: Nov 2003
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A quick google search tells me 10% of Canadians or 3.3 million Canadians have criminal records and 5.1% of Americans have criminal records. That has got to be a ton of money lost in travel.
-------------------- Steve Eisenreich Dezine Signs PO BOX 6052 Stn Forces Cold Lake, Alberta T9M 2C5 Posts: 774 | From: Cold Lake | Registered: Mar 2000
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9-11 was a devastating time and amidst the pain and frustration, in the search for somewhere to place the blame, a lot of fingers were pointed at the slackness of the Canadian borders. It is only my personal opinion, but I believe that plays a big part in this.
I may be wrong, but I don't think the border guards are allowed the discretion of "deciding" who is innocent and who is guilty. They have a set of rules and protocol that they are required to follow. Everyone is entitled to their day in court. I'm sorry you didn't take yours Ricky, because I believe our justice system is quite lenient. I'm just be glad you were not in a country where you would have been executed on the spot. I remember the tales my father told of being subjected to strip searches with a gun at his temple on his leaves from the oil field in Libya and Iraq.
I feel for your plight and the fact that your mistake has cost you, and it sounds like the guards were in a bad mood and could have given you more respect, but I'm not sure that they had the power to "forgive" you.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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BTW I whole Heartedly agree with you....Our Ministers of Whatever along with out Ministers of Everything are brutal!
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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"I liken it to going over to your next door neighbors house; you don't just walk in unannounced but you're welcome to come in after knocking and the homeowner answers the door."
After following this saga for the past year, this is one comment I can agree with wholeheartedly. And follow it with - because I agree to live by thier rules while in their house.
Having grown up in, and lived in tourist country most of my life, I find average Canadians and average Americans tend to see one another as similar people. Border crossings were a quick an easy formality, we spoke the same language, used currency of the same denomination, for a time even had weather measured in the same degrees. Kind of easy to take a foreign vacation, with folks that seemed just like us.
But we do have very different policial and legal systems. And recent changes in the world are highlighting some of those differences.
So please, continue to come visit my house, and I will come to yours. But first make sure the paperwork is current, and let's promise to live by house rules while we're there.
Deb
-------------------- Murray MacDonald OldTime Signs 529 Third Ave S Kenora, ON. P9N 1Y3 oldtimesigns@gokenora.com Posts: 781 | From: Kenora, ON | Registered: Jan 2003
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The first time I went to Canada, about ten years ago, I had a pistol too. I don't travel long distances anymore without an equalizer. I've accidently stumbled into too many bad neighborhoods to make that mistake again.
Anyway, when reading the sign about "declaring any firearms" being an honest citizen I proclaimed my guilt and the guy says "what do you have and why do you have it" so I go on to tell him what I have an ask him if he's ever been lost in Buffalo? He just laughs and says "no I haven't but you wont need that up here" he then goes on to tell me that I will have to pull over and check the gun in then on my way out of Canada I can pick it back up so pull over and you'll have to fill out some paperwork.
Well when I pull over 5-6 Mounties run over and surround my truck cannons drawn (looked like 44 mag revolvers) and are shouting at me "where's the firearm, where's the firearm" It's in the back of the truck I tell them and could you please calm down before someone accidently shoots me? So they tell me to get out of truck slowly and retrieve the firearm, as I get out and head to the back of the truck to get it, I have 5-6....44 mags pointed at my back as I'm getting the gun out of the back. Once they finally get my pistol in their hands, they turn into these nice big teddy bears. WOW, that's a neat pistol, here check this out they are telling the other fellow Mounties.
You'll have to come on in and fill out some paperwork and leave your firearm here while you're visiting and on your way out of Canada bring the paperwork back in and we'll give your firearm back. That's the way it went down, on my way out I stopped back in gave them the paperwork and they gave my gun back and away I went back to the states.
posted
I think Murray says it best. The Man does have a way with words. At a recent meet I overheard him describe the night as being "dark as the inside of a cow."
Most of the conflicts here in Letterville could easily be avoided if everyone thought of this as Barb and Steve's On Line Letterhead Meet. As hosts, we have a few rules our Guests are expected to follow. Those that choose to ignore house rules consistantly should not be surprised or hurt when shown the door.
-------------------- Steve Shortreed 144 Hill St., E. Fergus, Ontario Canada N1M 1G9 519-787-2673
posted
Steve I hope you don't think I am complaining about the rules' or the way you run your letterville. I think you have a great thing here and I understand why the rules are in place. I was Just busting your cookies. Peace dude!
posted
ya better watch out ya better not pout......
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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