We need desperately to hear from someone who uses 1shot paint regularly, as we are having some BIG problems with these plastic baseball helmets!!! We've had 55 come into our shop so far, and have had to re-do at least 10 of them. We use 1shot lettering enamel because you just can't letter with automotive paint! So I called the 1shot big shot and he told me to buy this ticote product and wipe it on with a rag, it would bind the paint to the plastic. Ha! It doesn't even bind itself to the plastic!!
So here's what we do: scuff the helmet with steel wool and paint the name. Let it dry overnight and then use spray clear. Well, the Krylon clear we knew already would wrinkle the paint. But the 1shot guy said he had a spray clear for it. No, it's not only dull but wrinkles too!!! So frustrating, and embarrassing too when people bring them back, chipping off.
posted
One Shot isn't going to stick to a plastic baseball helmet. Tie Coat isn't going to stick either. Spraying clear of any kind over One Shot appled to plastic isn't going to work either. The One Shot isn't adhered to the plastic. If the clear doesn't wrinkle it up ( due to it not being adhered ), if the helmet gets bumped/dropped/thrown, whatever, the One Shot is gonna chip off...............it's not adhered! Some plastics are just unpaintable. HOK, vinyl ink and Createx work on some plastics but not on others. A little experimenting might turn something up that would work but I'm afraid using One Shot directly on the plastic is a losing proposition. You could probably find a primer that would stick to the plastic. We used to use something on the plastic noses of our race cars that worked real well. It was a clear primer. You might try lettering with that primer, then lettering over that with One Shot. We got ours at Five Star bodies. It comes in a spray can. Spray it into a cup and let it sit awhile.
[ April 30, 2007, 08:29 PM: Message edited by: George Perkins ]
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
Thanks, George. We are wondering if the helmets are made from different plastics than last year, because the ones we did the past 2 years were absolutely no problem, they painted great. We've even had a couple of them come back this year that were handed down, with a request to take those names off and paint something else... we can't hardly get it off!!!
We do t-shirt airbrushing also so I think I will try the Createx next. Thanks again and if anyone else has their 2 cents we'd LOVE to hear it!!!
posted
This sounds like a Job for STICKERPIMP.. (Add Drum Solo here DUM dum DUM)..
Sorry no help on the 1 shot issues.. You probobly need a flexible paint to withstand the constant flexing.. I think Joey covered this subject at one time. But I would also trust Mr. Perkins. (He's a Hippie too)
posted
I am afraid that george and Bill are correct... there are some plastics that paint will not adhere to very well. The manufacturer may have switched to that type.
It sounds like 'stikker' time. The people who make decals and grapics for plastic fenders on motorcyles, jet skis, etc., use Convex vinly. It has a very aggresive adhesive and is made to comply with irregular surfaces.
posted
Just an oddball suggestion that I have heard of in the past.
Try "flashing" the helmet with a propane torch. Not enough to damage or warp the plastic but enough to make it receptive to paint or vinyl. Just wave the torch over the surface a couple of times and then prep the surface.
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
I'm not going to play kissass but all of the input and info here including George and Roger is right on, right down to what Dave Grundy suggests with the torch which works with some properties and just may work with your problem. Plastics are different and some require different approaches but all in all at least you've gotten advice from those in the know.
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
posted
I dunno why Bill DeBekker is callin me DUM! but I'm sure he's got good reason!
Vinyl screenprinting inks like Monte said are a pretty safe bet. MEK is the aggressive ingredient in vinyl inks (Nazdar 9700 or GV gloss vinyl series) and spray paints for Lexan R/C car bodies that makes the stuff stick to that plastic. It's aggressive enough that it will soften/dissolve most plastics if left in contact long enough, thus you get a pretty strong bond.
Otherwise, Si's suggestion of using High Bond Convex film (www.graphicms.com) is a pretty good one. You can have decals printed, or paint on the film yourself and trim with an X-acto, and you'll be able to remove it in the future.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
I've painted dozens or more of these things........clean with alcohol, scuff with ultrafine scotchbrite pad, clean again, torch it, paint it with createx..clear with rustoleum and let it go. Tell them not to use if for at least 24 hours or so.
These things aren't made to last forever. Most get thrown around so bad nothing is gonna stay on them. I've had some last a few years and others last less than a season. It's all got to do with care and handling. I didn't give any warranty on them because there should be none. You can't control what happens to the helmet once it leaves your hands.
-------------------- R.T.Thomas,AirDesigns/Sign And Airbrush Studio rtart1@earthlink.net
Hattiesburg,MS 39401 Shop 601-584-1000 Cell 601-310-5901 Proud supporter of LETTERVILLE!
"Ahhhhhh.......Juicy Fruit." Posts: 547 | From: Hattiesburg,MS USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
The only advice I can give you is to NEVER spray 1-Shot UV clear over 1-Shot lettering enamel. All it does is crinkle the paint, even if you let the lettering dry for a week before spraying it. I've ruined a few panels that way before I smartened up. Love....Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
Gave up disapointing little leaguers years ago.
This is an up hill battle at best.
However...If these helmets are made of the same materials as ice coolers or plastic insulated jugs there is one paint that definitely will adhere it's calles "Unipol Screen Ink" (Nazdar)
Flame the helmet then mask and spray...or silk screen. Remove the mask imediately after spraying.
If you know of someone in your area that does bottle printing on plastic jugs maybe they will give (or sell) a small sample to try.
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
posted
The only thing that I have found that works consistantly is the Createx Sign Air and AquaFlow's version (can't remember the name). They kinda bind to the helmet long enough to get the clear to protect everything. Spray clear with a rattle can of Krylon or cheapo Wal-Mart clear.
-------------------- Michael Clanton Clanton Graphics/ Blackberry 19 Studio 1933 Blackberry Conway AR 72034 501-505-6794 clantongraphics@yahoo.com Posts: 1735 | From: Conway Arkansas | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
Wow thanks everybody! Truly helpful suggestions at last. Will let you know soon how this works out for us!! And yeah we have a torch, never heard of that but it's the next thing this morning.
posted
3M Adhesive Activator applied beneath a vinyl may allow adhesion to these hard plastic helmets. And even then, it's a hit-and-miss game.
I was in the vinyl industry for many years and I can tell you that many of these industrial plastics such as polypropylene, etc outgas which is to say, they continuously - even over long periods of time - emit gaseous air bubbles.
The result is that these bubbles build up under the applied decal and build sufficient pressure as to eventually lift the decal right from the surface.
This is also why you can apply a decal, and easily rip it right off.
I would guess the same problem would hold true of most paints....but there are some good suggestions above from people that know more about that end of it.
3M adhesive activator can work in some instances beneath vinyl...but it's messy, toxic, and can discolor the plastic.
Another alternative is a vinyl with an adhesive backing that was formulated specifically for application to these plastics...which, in the sign industry is tough to find.
posted
Actually its polymigration (oils comming to the surfase) we have the same situation with plastic parts on dirtbikes (motorcycles)jet skis, snowmobiles, vinyl uphol. material, interior of automobiles, etc.
Rapid Prep has been used for this problem for over 10 years now,with exelent results for longivity.
Mr.J (Julian Briat, well known striper from N.J) has been advocating this product and method for a number of years, I think Bob Bond is also up on this.
Roger
-------------------- Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated 186 Combs Dr. Merlin Oregon 97532 Posts: 3020 | From: Merlin Oregon | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
You can clear over the One Shot lettering enamels as long as you add a touch of One Shot Hardener 4007.
Good luck with those helmets....Some of these plastics are just not receptive to paint or vinyl. I think Todd has it right "polypropylene" that's the one that kept coming to mind, when reading this post but not sure.
When you wrote that... I was sure you was thinking about joey madden who has always talked about repid prep and repid remover as the stuff he uses for his work on this site.
Did you mean joey madden?
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
No Curtis, however Joey is another very well recogonised striper who advocates this method and my products as well.
MR.J. is from New Jersy, I believe he just hosted a paintin party last month or so. MR.J. sells a sort of stripe kit that includes some of my products, actually he first used them for many years before putting together the kit.
Roger
-------------------- Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated 186 Combs Dr. Merlin Oregon 97532 Posts: 3020 | From: Merlin Oregon | Registered: Dec 1998
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quote:Originally posted by Todd Gill: Another alternative is a vinyl with an adhesive backing that was formulated specifically for application to these plastics...which, in the sign industry is tough to find.
It's easy to find, Todd. I already posted a link to it, and the stuff works great.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
Everyone, Today we had about 5 helmets due. Using what we have on hand, this is what we did: cleared over the 1shot art with automotive clear with an airbrush. Set them in an enclosed area with a space heater for a couple of hours and then the customers started showing up for them. We were pleased for the moment, they look good, no wrinkling and shiny. We told the people "no guarantees" and please let us know how they wear. And one guy told us where to get some used helmets too. Testers! Yay! We really want to keep doing this, but the right way.
quote:Originally posted by Jillbeans: The only advice I can give you is to NEVER spray 1-Shot UV clear over 1-Shot lettering enamel. All it does is crinkle the paint, even if you let the lettering dry for a week before spraying it. I've ruined a few panels that way before I smartened up. Love....Jill
Okay then, what is this product good for? The 1shot man I spoke to on the phone recommended it, especially over the metallic paint. I bought 3 cans!
posted
I tell ya what. There is one thing I use the 1S UV aerosol clear for: A country club gets me to make posters for their upcoming events. I buy foamcore at Staples and spray it with this stuff. Then I can apply vynull to it! I originally bought it thinking to clear-coat painted panels with, but after ruining about 3, and thinking it was my technique, or lack thereof, I had my son, a professional auto body painter spray a panel. His crinkled too. Love....Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
Let me clarify incase there's a misunderstanding. I didn't specifically say but assume you know what I meant. You want to add the #4007 hardener to the lettering enamel.
We usually use a basecoat/clearcoat, automotive clear that is also hardened but you can probably use most any clearcoat. as long as you're not trying to pour on one heavy coat, it should not lift/wrinkle.
With that said, no guarantee with the plastic but you'll be more likely to have success if you harden the enamel.
I'm not saying this will make your paint stick to the plastic, just that, this should stop your lettering enamel from wrinkling......For future reference.
posted
I don't know if it was mentioned before but the autobody supply will have a clear plastic primer, and some "flex additive" to mix with your paint, this may also help.
Roger
-------------------- Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated 186 Combs Dr. Merlin Oregon 97532 Posts: 3020 | From: Merlin Oregon | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
Thank you thank you so much everyone!!! We will keep all your suggestions in mind as we continue to persevere with this project. We are determined to figure this out because there is a huge market for this here! After we perfect our method, we'll be happy to share it with anyone who needs to know. Thanks again and God bless you all for taking the time to care and share.
posted
I am with Dana on this one... What about Krylon Fusion or Frog Juice Colors? Both designed to adhere to plastic, right?
I used the Krylon Fusion on some Bicycle Helmets I whipped up for the kids here a summer or 2 ago and it grabbed onto the plastic and didn't chip off. ~but it was easy to scratch'n'dent off. I didn't clear coat... just did a spray'n'go. (my kid was in a hurry and it was just a test run anyway...)
When I used Krylon Fusion on 5 gal. white buckets however- the Krylon barely "settled" on the surface. That was a very flakey project... that I'm still farting around with.
Then there's the whole static storm when painting on plastic... What's up with that?!?! In the early years- I painted a plastic container with One-Shot and the paint literally jumped off the brush onto the plastic. The whole thing would have been fun IF I were working in the abstract... but I wasn't. The little bear I painted on there looked like someone hooked him up to 220!
The zapped side of the Moon
-------------------- The Moon aka: Stefenie Harris Moonlight Designs Pollock Pines, CA learnin' somethin' new every day! stefenie@comcast.net Posts: 550 | From: Pollock Pines, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I've airbrushed several of these. Always clean, scuff with a scotchbrite, Airbrush with createx,auto air, aquaflow, whichever. Clearcoat with walmart 99cent spray clear or home depot painters touch spray clear. Works great. Also there are 2 helmets I know of that will not take paint; Cooper brand & wilson T-ball helmets; They are made of a different plastic that won't hold the paint. Actually heard this is done on purpose for liability issues.
Anyway, check out www.westcoastairbrush.com forums. There are a bunch of people painting them over there.
-------------------- Kevin Sparling Georgia Airbrush & Signs 2323 Shallowford Rd. Marietta, GA Posts: 24 | From: Marietta, GA | Registered: Feb 2003
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That's actually a very good trick. I use it all the time.
I cut an overall mask where the design goes, scuff VERY lightly with a Scotchbrite (usually wet), and paint One Shot over it. Occasinally, I've cleared some of these projects with OS 4005 aerosol and haven't had trouble to date.
Jilly, I remember a license plate that was done in One Shot paints and cleared with the OS aerosol clear...
The plate was scuffed, OS 4007 was added to the paints and, once painted, left inside my black tool box on my truck to bake it. It was cleared the next day and you know the results.
The real keys to clearing things is making sure they are CURED, not just dry to the touch, and getting a good adhesion to whatever surface you're working on.
Skip a step and lifting is almost inevitable with almost ANY kind of paint. Just yesterday I saw the results of a florescent aerosol that was sprayed over a race car nose. Although the basecoat/clearcoat had been done a week before, it wasn't fully cured and the harsh aerosol lifted it badly on one corner.
Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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