posted
I never stumble, Michael... I just fall down! Well, sometimes, I do power wobbles but that's only when I am drinking cough syrup and MD.
Gun sales" Never been to one but they have them at the VFW and the Legion right down the road once a month or so between them. Cheap beer and gun sales... what a concept!
Hahahahahahahahaha!
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6469 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Si Allen: [QB] Hey Doug....we never said that you were an international gun smuggler!/QB]
Ahem... that would be me!
-------------------- Ricky Jackson Signs Now 614 Russell Parkway Warner Robins, GA (478) 923-7722 signpimp50@hotmail.com
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Issac Newton Posts: 3528 | From: Warner Robins, GA | Registered: Oct 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Si Allen: [QB] Hey Doug....we never said that you were an international gun smuggler!/QB]
Ahem... that would be me!
Ohhhh quit yer braggin!
-------------------- Mark Kottwitz Kottwitz Graphics Ridgely, MD www.SeeMySignWork.com -------------------------- Imagination is more important than knowledge. -- Albert Einstein Posts: 750 | From: Ridgely, MD | Registered: Oct 2000
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I guess you need to ask the right question: that would be: DOSE GEMINI OWN OR DID THEY SET UP A RETAIL or affiliated with a COMPANY THAT SELLS DIRECTLY TO THE END USER CALLED BUYSIGNLETTERS.COM?
Look at the turn around time...3 days? HOW DOES A SECOND PART VENDOR SHIP LETTERS OUT THAT QUICKLY?
Don Nelson, from Gemini, may not even have a clue these two businesses are somehow connected or set up or whose seed money set up what, and in whose name, and it probably isn't even traceable.
So, for all you know, and for all Don knows, buysignletters.com is a totally separate company.
I guess it's legal, and ethical, its business and Gemini can say they don't sell directly to the retail customer.
Here is my example of how this works:
Monumental Designs sells to: Only Sign shops, but Draper the Signmaker is also a Sign shop and currently owned by me, so if the end user walks into our shop (Draper The Signmaker)...he's fair game for selling a monument sign to on the local level. Its business! Like it or not.
One day, Monumental Designs will be sold to someone else, even a family memeber(s) and so will Draper The Signmaker which could be other family members. That's the goal.
So, like it or not, all your customer has to do is type in "plastic letters" in Google search and they have sources for buying Gemini products directly from somebody.
[ April 30, 2007, 02:01 PM: Message edited by: Dave Draper ]
posted
Dave, I looked up who owns that domain and it's out of Florida. They may have the letters drop shipped directly from Gemini. The 3 day estimation is probably on orders that are easily fulfilled and sent overnight with overnight shipping upcharges.
I notice on that site that they are more expensive than the list catalog prices, so there isn't any savings there.
And like in Doug's case, since most customers don't have "sign sense" they may order something that will look ridiculous.
So any customer that uses them ends up paying more and doing all the work of figuring out what to get and running through that drop down list ordering nightmare, and since they don't have any product knowledge runs the risk of ordering something completely wrong.
It's funny what some people will do to try to save a buck.
posted
Doug - a side note: you and I have had some hellacious debates...usually calm, logical, and orderly....sometimes not. We agree on some things but have *respectfully disagreed* on many others....
But one thing is certain, I genuinely like you as a person and you are certainly not an assclown, whatever that term might mean.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
Yeah, I looked up buysignletters.com and came up with this info:
Registrant: Sign Designs, Inc. 9110 Pinion Dr. Lake Worth, Florida 33467 US
Registrar: DOTSTER Domain Name: BUYSIGNLETTERS.COM Created on: 07-OCT-01 Expires on: 07-OCT-08 Last Updated on: 24-JUN-06
Administrative Contact: Pomfret, Steve steve@signdesigns.org Sign Designs, Inc. 9110 Pinion Dr. Lake Worth, Florida 33467 US 561-642-1747 561-642-5198
Technical Contact: Pomfret, Steve steve@signdesigns.org Sign Designs, Inc. 9110 Pinion Dr. Lake Worth, Florida 33467 US 561-642-1747 561-642-5198
Domain servers in listed order: NS1.SOFTLAYER.COM NS2.SOFTLAYER.COM
The thing is if you contact Gemini, they will supply you with a disk of images that you can use on your site, but there are a couple of stipulations. They have a form that you fill out and fax in (of course you really don't have to, but why run the risk of them finding your site and not suppling you with product because of something so small), and you also have to place an image on the front page of your site that proclaims that you sell gemini letters. I don't see the image on the home page, but I really haven't poked around there that much.
-------------------- Mark Kottwitz Kottwitz Graphics Ridgely, MD www.SeeMySignWork.com -------------------------- Imagination is more important than knowledge. -- Albert Einstein Posts: 750 | From: Ridgely, MD | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
Gee Dave what are your thoughts on The Kennedy assassination, or the hanger 19 thing. What about Marilyn was J.F.K. involved or what. Don is my best pal today as he had our Gemini rep Mark Demerski come out today to check me out. I past the test!Say I had a brother in law who used to call me Stanalousky when I was a kid. I hated that. Do you think his ancestors were Demerski, he went by Demers. was he a closet Pollock Maybe Dave can check into it for me. It's a great courtesy that Genini does for us lets not be ingrates about it.
[ April 30, 2007, 06:52 PM: Message edited by: Dana Stanley ]
If Gemini has a "back door" to the retail markets, of which they may or may not have, Don would probably be the last to know, cause its none of his business. I used "buysignletters.com" as an EXAMPLE of how another fully legit company could be set up to sell to the end user. The 3 day turn around was interesting because I can't even get stuff that quick.
Its none of my business, and none of yours.
Gemini does not sell to the retail customer. Period!
There is no conspiracy. If seed money from the Weinel family, or Oss family, or someone else, set up a entirely new corporation to feed Gemini Products to the retail market, it wouldn't be a surprise to anybody, and it wouldn't be unethical either. In fact it would be pretty shrewd business...and I sort of like that!
That's why I said: "Like it or not, its business!"
Sorry you had issues with my post. Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers.
As for the JFK assination, everybody know it was the "One Arm Man" ! hahahahaah
[ April 30, 2007, 07:57 PM: Message edited by: Dave Draper ]
posted
Gee? I wonder why vendors are not flocking to this website in droves?
Before Letterville, I ran a shop for 25 years. Gemini is one of the most upstanding companies we ever dealt with. I'd love to be able to say the same about all of our users, but a few just continue to prove me wrong.
We are very fortunite to have a guy like Don available to us here in Letterville. I keep working hard hard to convince other vendors to follow his lead and get involved with our Letterhead friends.
Truth is, Letterville has a handful of nasty, mean spirtited people that scare the living daylights out of potential new Merchants. It hits us hard in the pocketbook and denys the rest of us valuable insight into new products. It's almost to the point where I am ashamed to call these people at renewal time.
Something has to change. Many of us, including myself, are not having as good a time at our "On-Line Letterhead Meet." At a real meet, many of those that love to fight and call each other names would have been shown the door years ago. I don't think I can ever remember someone treating a vendor at a live meet this way. It's unfair, uncalled for, and unwelcome.
We have a wonderful thing going here. Letterville has enjoyed steady growth over the past 11 years. I don't know of any other sign related website, that has enjoyed the loyal following this Community has. We've always tried to keep the spotlight on the small shop owner simply because that's where we come from.
I'm rambling again. It's 3am and I still have a glimmer of hope that someone somewhere will read something in my words that just might change the way they communicate with their peers.
-------------------- Steve Shortreed 144 Hill St., E. Fergus, Ontario Canada N1M 1G9 519-787-2673
posted
Steve, I just read the entire post (thanks for causing me to do that, I read your post first). I really don't see a lot of negative in the Vendor parts of the post. It didn't seem to bother me too much. I believe that Gemini comes out unscathed. One thing I do notice is that Don is very responsive, as a vendor should be.
I don't know if you've had a chance to look at a local site that I started. I am the administrator of boroughvent.com and I am constantly having to babysit and censor people who would rather attack each other than to stick with an important issue. I've only been doing this for 2 months and already I'm tired of the crap.
I appreciate your concerns and your efforts in keeping this site alive.
-------------------- Gene Golden Gettysburg Signs Gettysburg PA 17325 717-334-0200 genegolden@gettysburgsigns.com
"Art is knowing when to stop." Posts: 1578 | From: Gettysburg, PA | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Curtis hammond: Shouldn't make any difference. They ask for proof that you are actually in the sign bizz. And they say to the industry only.
Does that mean except when they some customer pays full price?
Curtis, I'm thinking the reason they want proof you are are in the sign business, is so they don't give their "40% trade discount" to an end user, or "consumer".
Are they giving the discount to our customers?
Steve, Let me clarify the intent of my participation in this thread. I was asking Bruce for proof that Gemini was selling to end users....at wholesale cost, because I was highly doubtful that this was the case. IF....Gemini was in fact selling at retail to end users, I would, personally, have no problem with that whatsoever. I do all of my letter business with Gemini and they are top notch in my book.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7409 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
Dave Draper, what you have posted is pure speculation. It doesn't matter whether you are right or not, the point is, unless you don't know for sure, you should never accuse someone (or a company for that matter) of doing a certain thing simply because it could be a possibility. If you go around my town declaring that I might be cheating on my husband, which you could assume is a possibility, you are putting me in the situation here I have to defend myself, plus you are putting suspicion into people's minds. Don't you know what happens to rumours? That's exactly what you did here to Gemini. It's unfair. I have just unpacked a $1000 worth of letters from Gemini and I wish every company I deal with would deliver the same excellent service.
posted
Atta girl Lotti, I'm with ya, some folks seem to open mouth more then start brain, everybody is at one time or another guilty of this but some more then others.
Roger
-------------------- Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated 186 Combs Dr. Merlin Oregon 97532 Posts: 3020 | From: Merlin Oregon | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
I don't think it's really the same Lotti. Your relationship with your husband is your personal business. Unless someone is somehow involved in that business, they shouldn't be saying those things.
If Gemini was selling direct, as a sign business I would like to know about it. So I don't think it's a terrible thing to question it.
I have wondered about it before with other suppliers that are closer by and wondered if I would get cut out after working with a client and potentially having a fair amount of time finding out what they want and need and could afford. As a result I have stayed away from doing business with wholesalers within a certain distance to minimize the possibility. And I've asked wholesalers outright if they also sell retail.
I think if a company has integrity it can stand up to the scrutiny.
Now I just wish whoever around here keeps underbidding me on Gemini letters would go belly up already so I can make some money with them.
posted
Folks...I can PROMISE you that Gemini does NOT own or have any more interest in buysignletters.com than we do in any of your other sign businesses. They are a sign company that buys from Gemini...nothing more. They get the exact same discount as you do. We do not play favorites with anybody..regardless of how much or how little they buy. Gemini makes sure that everybody we sell to is on the same playing field. Buysignletters.com is one of several sign companies that now have fairly strong internet presence. Any of you could do the same thing. Gemini does not sell retail..period.
-------------------- Don Nelson Gemini dnelson@axcesswave.com Posts: 43 | From: Oberlin, OH | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
Even if Gemini did sell retail, it's no big deal. They're not going to give retail the same price break. Heck, they're not going to give ANY price break.
Furthermore, why *would* they go after retail sales? Retail is a total pain in the butt. You know what kinda manpower it takes to handle that side of the business? Take all the phone calls, estimates, bids, emails, paperwork, billing, production, packing, shipping, etc that you handle every day in your own shop, and multiply that by a thousand. They would be out of their freakin minds to chase down that work, when they already have qualified dealers to handle that workload for them!
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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No matter if its Gemini, econochannel, whoever, its about making a buck. If they say they only sell to the "sign market" and some dildo puts together a "false' company so he can get the product, who's to blame? Not the vendor.
I've had problems with gemini (been using them since the '80) , I had problems with econochannel. Made my beef and they fixed it.
Playing the game is what we do. If you have a problem with vendors selling to your customers, than maybe you need new customers. These companies are not out marketing in "People" magazine. If someone wants to get the "cheap" they are going to do whatever they can do get it. Research.
I for one have never been "cut out" of a job by any of my vendors. Most of my vendors will refer ME. Because I try to sell their product. And they appreciate this. Why would they cut off their nose to spite their face?
Your Mayor has said it best. If you keep ****ing off the vendors, there is not going to be a "letterville".
Post a concern. Not a bash. Trust me it works. (learned the hard way)
-------------------- Snow's Sign Works 865-908-0076 snowman@planetc.com www.snowsigns.com
I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message... Posts: 1640 | From: Sevierville, TN | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
I think as this site gets larger, there will be more responses...negative & positive. I think Gemini has overwhelmingly received a positive response here.
Don't be ashamed to call these people at renewal time. I think if you ask Don or other merchants, this type of post can actually put a stop to damaging rumors or myths associated with their company.
As The site grows... the responses will be more diverse. See it as the glass half full.
Love the Letterville!
-------------------- Michael R. Bendel Bendel Sign Co,. Inc. Sauk Rapids, MN Posts: 913 | From: Sauk Rapids, MN | Registered: Jul 2005
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