posted
I have been doing some vectorizing of a scanned in logo. I have a Flexi type design program (LXI),Photoshop 7 and CorelX3. I've tried the auto trace features in Photoshop & the LXI software with less than satisfactory results. I admit,I'm really green at this process. What would you recommend?
-------------------- Nancie W. Phillips White Dove Painting Studio 74 Dacula Road, Dacula, GA 30019 678-887-3339
posted
I'm a big fan of the vector drawing tools in Adobe Illustrator, but I get the feeling the same things can be accomplished with CorelDraw.
Illustrator CS2 and CorelDraw X3 are both supposed to have great auto tracing capabilities. The final outcome really depends on the image you start with, and how picky you are about the results. I generally draw logos by hand because I want them to be as close to perfect as possible.
My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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I'm still using Adobe Streamline. It works well for what I do.
Good Luck
-------------------- Ryan Culbertson The Sign Shop at Quick Copies Greenwood, SC
Rock and Roll means well, but it can’t help tellin’ young boys lies. Mike Cooley - Drive By Truckers Posts: 453 | From: Greenwood, South Carolina | Registered: Apr 2007
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Really don't know which program is best for tracing (without trying them all at least). However a tip for using CorelX3, under bitmaps you can use the image adjustment lab to up the contrast of the scan and take out color plus tweak the brightness. Sometimes that will make the trace results better.
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I tried them both, But for me corel x3 seems to be the choice. It give you a copy of the original and a copy of the vector. ITs really good.
Poor old streamline. In its day it was pretty good. But today, the tracing utils are really good.
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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Hands down way superior to any of the other vectorizing programs included in Illustrator or Corel, Casmate... anything. They are running an internet special until the end of the month for $199 for the download version. Steve tells me he intends to be a Merchant in Letterville.
They have both Mac and PeeCee versions. The regular price has changed recently from $699 to $299 because they added a new version. Imagaro Z Pro for $699 still has the 40,000 font data base included, but you still have to prove to it that you own the font before you can use it.
The new version builds a font database from the fonts you own. It has a feature built in where you load all the font CD's you own into the program. It automatically recognizes all your system fonts. Once it knows you own that font, it recognizes the font and replaces the scanned or imported image with an outline of that font. It even recognizes them if they've been stretched or compressed.
I tried the demo version (free download) and was blown away by the versatility of the tools, the live changes you can make, and the way it handeled color sooooo well. If you are looking for a better, faster way to vectorize, try the demo of Imagaro Z.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5397 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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I still use CASmate to vectorize. After all these years, it is still the best I have seen for converting bitmaps to vectors.
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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I have used quite a few tracing programs..some are good... Corel X3's is very good..But I am with Russ..If you want it perfect, redraw it manually. Yes, it takes time but the results are worth the time.
And the more you do it, the faster you get at it.
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
Wow! Y'all are great! I tried using CorelX3 with the best results (so far). I'm going to take the advice to redraw it manually and rescan it. Thanks for sharing all your help guys...
-------------------- Nancie W. Phillips White Dove Painting Studio 74 Dacula Road, Dacula, GA 30019 678-887-3339
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Nancie, when they say "draw it manually", I'm pretty sure they mean putting your already scanned version on layer 1, then using the mouse (or pad?), on layer 2, to bezier draw a line with nodes over the image. Some people (ahem) are REALLY fast at the process. Which reminds me , you can see what I'm talking about in a video made by Russ. There was a guy here at Letterville, oh what was his name , he thought he had a fast way to vectorize, but El-Russbo showed him who's boss . Definately worth seeing.
Myself, when I draw over on layer 2, I first take the bmp image into Photo Paint, to make it semi transparent. First thing to do is open a new page (in Photo paint) that's the same size or bigger than your scanned image. Find the place where the scanned image is stored, but instead of openning it, just right click>copy it. Then go to this new (white) page in P-P, and paste the image onto the page, "as new object". Double click the select tool (top one on left side) and a box opens at the right side ofthe screen. Select the object, then go to the transparancy bar at the bottom, and make the image kind of see through. All this in version 8. This process only takes a minute, but for me is less frustrating than drawing lines over a dark object. Now just you watch, SOMEBODY will come along and say "James, you are the slow one, here's a way to do the transparancy in 1/4th that time."
Oh well, we all have our own way of learning.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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I agree with Tim and Bruce. There is not a program out there (and I have Corel X3) that can can even come close to the old Casmate! I have it on an old computer to Vectorize with.
-------------------- Tony Vickio The World Famous Vickio Signs 3364 Rt.329 Watkins Glen, NY 14891 t30v@vickiosigns.com 607-535-6241 http://www.vickiosigns.com Posts: 1063 | From: Watkins Glen, New York | Registered: Sep 2001
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Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6714 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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quote:"James, you are the slow one, here's a way to do the transparency in 1/4th that time."
James, in Corel, at least in X3, you can add transparency to your scanned bitmap image, saving you the trouble of going through PhotoPaint.
In 1/4th the time you mentioned, I make the bitmap partially transparent, lock it down and digitize on top of it. I usually do my outlines in yellow or magenta as I work so that they show up well. When I'm done, I copy it to the side and put in the correct colors.
Edited because I took only 1/4th the usual time to check my spelling.
[ April 27, 2007, 11:39 AM: Message edited by: David Harding ]
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5084 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Like the others have said, it is not available, but you can still find some old copies around.
-------------------- Mark Kottwitz Kottwitz Graphics Ridgely, MD www.SeeMySignWork.com -------------------------- Imagination is more important than knowledge. -- Albert Einstein Posts: 746 | From: Ridgely, MD | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
For years I designed most things in Freehand until Adobe put the squash to it after buying out Macromedia. Then would export as AI files and into Flexi for output.
In Freehand when vectoring a bitmap, In the layers palette I would just choose "background" layer and it would automatically lower the opacity to around 30-40% and then lock that layer so it wouldn't move and usually trace manually in a color like magenta, like David said, it's easy to see that color over the image.
Manual tracing is an evil necessity unfortunately. I've never seen an auto trace that accomplished the results I was looking for and doubt you will either.
posted
Thanks James for those kind words. It may be considered a psychosis of some kind, but I actually enjoy making bezier curves. It's a relaxing diversion.
I only auto trace when the artwork is organic enough not to require exact duplication.
I do find myself tracing artwork on paper and rescanning if it's particularly nasty. A few days ago a friend sent me a link to some nice old posters online. The posters had some cool lettering I wanted to recreate, but the images were really small. I blew the letters up in photshop and printed them out. Then I traced them with a pencil, which gave me a much cleaner look. I scanned the pencil tracings, and used Illustrator to make the bezier curves:
If I had wanted a bumpy, distressed look (not bad for some situations) I would have auto traced instead.
My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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I hadn't thought about covering my "S", but apparently I was. LOL.
I've been in contact with a type vendor, and I'm working to have some fonts available very soon. I've got several designs in the works, including the one with the S above, and the one based on Jack Daniels. Thanks for expressing your interest. I'll keep you posted on the progress.
My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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Hey Russ...That's EXACTLY what I was thinking of doing! All that stuff about layers has my head swimming. "Irish" emailed me a link to where another forum's administrator had posted a 6 part series on vectorizing. Watching that just makes me realize I have a lot to learn. I guess I need to keep me laptop with me everywhere I go so I can practice.
-------------------- Nancie W. Phillips White Dove Painting Studio 74 Dacula Road, Dacula, GA 30019 678-887-3339
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"But still it is not the Program but the person behind it?"
I've used both Corel x3 and Streamline over the years and fine tuning does come into play. The default settings for both do decent work, but for better results, adjusting them and saving them for specific tasks is time well spent.
I don't know that I prefer one over the other, but I do know that when the settings fit, either will do what's needed to minimize node editing later.
Streamline is no longer being made by Adobe as a stand alone product, but you may be able to find it online on sites like Ebay. Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:Originally posted by James Donahue: Now just you watch, SOMEBODY will come along and say "James, you are the slow one, here's a way to do the transparancy in 1/4th that time."
In X3 all you have to do is scan import the bitmap, then select wireframe from the view menu. This will make the lines much easier to see on top of the bitmap you are tracing.
-------------------- Mike Normington Custom Graphics Burbank, IL
"The only thing permanent is change." Posts: 43 | From: Chicago, IL | Registered: Apr 2007
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For several years I have maintained an old computer for Casmate scanning, but we found something better and it is FREE.
Inkscape... it is a free open source drawing program that has a really great trace routine. In fact it has a bunch of different approaches and you can always find one that works great.
I have streamline, signlab, casmate, corel x3 and they all work, but we always use Inkscape.
ernie
Posts: 405 | From: Malta, NY | Registered: Jan 2003
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First off: I knew it! I knew it. It's like, "Hey James, why don't you wear this orange circle with black rings painted in it, and run around out there in the feild, we need some target practice."
Ernie, that looks cool! Funny how it is, I just picked up Red Hat the other night, was wondering what would run with it. And I think that tomorrow I might get another PC for free.
Also, I was thinking I should get a new version of my current software, so I can open newer file types, but would this Inkscape do that?
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:"Hey James, why don't you wear this orange circle with black rings painted in it, and run around out there in the feild, we need some target practice."
James, we wouldn't do that. You're too nice a guy!
Your kids, though... you'd better watch out for 'em!
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5084 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
James, Inkscape handles quite a few formats but I find that .svg format works best for me.
Inkscape has versions that run on Windows, linux and Mac operating systems. It is being continuously improved, the most recent version was released on April 15. I am a couple of revisions behind.
I normally import a jpg into inkscape, vectorize it with a couple of clicks, delete the jpg and save the file as .svg format. Then I open it in illustrator and save it as an .ai file that gets imported into signlab and converted it to a halftone. Finally we print Edge positive material as a mask for screen printing. The whole operation goes very quickly.
I don't use inkscape for anything else because it quickly gets bogged down with big vector files.
Sometimes illustrator outputs duplicate features that drives signlab crazy, so I filter my files through Vcarve pro that has this great feature that selects all duplicate vectors. One click, hit delete, then save as an .ai file and everything works great.
ernie
Posts: 405 | From: Malta, NY | Registered: Jan 2003
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![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
, you can see what I'm talking about in a video made by Russ. There was a guy here at Letterville, oh what was his name ![[I Don t Know]](graemlins/dunno.gif)
, he thought he had a fast way to vectorize, but El-Russbo showed him who's boss ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
. Definately worth seeing.
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
Then would export as AI files and into Flexi for output. 
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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