posted
I read into this a little bit and from what I understand about the History of the country I call home, it was not born out of revolution. The revolution came as a direct result of standing for what you believe to be right and true, freedom of religion a large portion of that stand.
They began with a picture perfect society, people helping people, trusting one another to a point where your word was all that was needed.
Then as oooo so routine, they became complacent, and what we have today is a long slow result of this on-going complacency.
The simple solution is most often the most difficult, to put another person above yourself.
Humility, willingness, LOVE, traits that are displayed daily right here on BB so long as we are talking about signs....... why isnt it out in the every day world, our neighborhoods.
I moved up here to Kentucky and started preaching community, Praying that God would send some of what He has up there down here (was a pretty good series btw) and all but got shunned from my local church. People just dont want to change unless it allows us to be lazier, let someone else do it, make me a rule so I dont have to deal with it, give me a pill so I dont have to feel the pain, give me a radio or television program that sees things from my point of view and lets call it GOSPEL (truth).
Complacency is the problem, it is hard work to put another persons needs first, most all of us are parents, we know how hard it is to put others first on a daily basis. But what is the reward, we smile more often, our kids love us as we love our parents. Our neghbors let their children come over and play cause they know it is a SAFE environment.
If you want to bann something, bann the video game, what happened to kids riding their bikes on a sunny summer day, fishing in the creek, walking through the trees, weeds, plains, what ever is around and excersising their minds as well as their bodies.
This problem of today starts right here with me, I say that because it is up to me influence first my children on how to become a proper adult, yes, they will have the oppurtunity to make there own choices as they grow up, but I can teach my three toddlers how to love, how to be humble yet strong, then that is a start. The second part of the change i cannot control, but only work towards the change by setting the best example possible, and I fail at it almost every day, but I try again and again and again because it is that important to me.
But dont look for Government, either another country as an example or your own to make rules and laws to help society, there will still be problems as there is not often a new law introduced that is not fueled by a personal agenda.
There is so much work to do and so few people willing to make a change. But a change, one person at a time must be made or tragedies like we have been talking about will soon be nothing more then a local news story at the end of the broadcast.
With that I hoep that everyone of you are and will have an AWESOME day today, cause this is the best day of our lives.
-------------------- Sharing the WORD one sign at a time!! Joe Golden Signage 721 Oak ST, Madisonville KY, 42431 270-871-0454 Posts: 270 | From: Madisonville, Kentucky | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
Steve, You should write more at 4.30am as you made total sense to me and gave me some perspective. I live in a country when only a few of the population own legally held guns. it is very rare for there to be an instance of someone going nuts with one of those guns.
There are plenty of illegal guns now floating around the country and they are the ones that are causing the problem. Our uniformed police aren't armed only what we call our armed detectives. So often you have unarmed officers facing bank raiders with guns. Yet we, as a nation, still don't cry out for the arming of our police force in full.
This is probably for the reasons that you mentioned Steve, you just keep upping the anty. I am amazed at the amount of responses that sound like the US should go back to the days where everyone had a gun strapped on their belt. I think they were called six shooters.
I totally accept the right of people to own guns in order to put food on the table or as a sport (clay pigeon shooting) but I find it insane that some think that it is safe to allow anyone who wants to, own a gun as a means of personal protection. It puts them in the place of Judge and Jury in a given situation where the dead person can't speak any defense for the supposed crime that they were committing when killed.
Say someone wanders onto your property and they aren't bad or up to no good but you decide they are. Do you have the right to claim self defense and kill them, then and there just because you own a gun.Don't tell me it never happens.
I agree with Steve when he said that things are gone too far in the states for you to back track. I just wonder how many times does the scenes in VT have to be repeated before you who support the gun lobby, think again?
I am sorry for the loss of so many young lives and for the families left behind. God Bless America.
-------------------- Miles Cullinane, Cork, Ireland.
From the sometimes sunny south of Ireland, Posts: 914 | From: Cork, Ireland | Registered: Jul 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Joe Golden: I read into this a little bit and from what I understand about the History of the country I call home, it was not born out of revolution. The revolution came as a direct result of standing for what you believe to be right and true, freedom of religion a large portion of that stand.
They began with a picture perfect society, people helping people, trusting one another to a point where your word was all that was needed.
Then as oooo so routine, they became complacent, and what we have today is a long slow result of this on-going complacency.
The simple solution is most often the most difficult, to put another person above yourself.
Humility, willingness, LOVE, traits that are displayed daily right here on BB so long as we are talking about signs....... why isnt it out in the every day world, our neighborhoods.
I moved up here to Kentucky and started preaching community, Praying that God would send some of what He has up there down here (was a pretty good series btw) and all but got shunned from my local church. People just dont want to change unless it allows us to be lazier, let someone else do it, make me a rule so I dont have to deal with it, give me a pill so I dont have to feel the pain, give me a radio or television program that sees things from my point of view and lets call it GOSPEL (truth).
Complacency is the problem, it is hard work to put another persons needs first, most all of us are parents, we know how hard it is to put others first on a daily basis. But what is the reward, we smile more often, our kids love us as we love our parents. Our neghbors let their children come over and play cause they know it is a SAFE environment.
If you want to bann something, bann the video game, what happened to kids riding their bikes on a sunny summer day, fishing in the creek, walking through the trees, weeds, plains, what ever is around and excersising their minds as well as their bodies.
This problem of today starts right here with me, I say that because it is up to me influence first my children on how to become a proper adult, yes, they will have the oppurtunity to make there own choices as they grow up, but I can teach my three toddlers how to love, how to be humble yet strong, then that is a start. The second part of the change i cannot control, but only work towards the change by setting the best example possible, and I fail at it almost every day, but I try again and again and again because it is that important to me.
But dont look for Government, either another country as an example or your own to make rules and laws to help society, there will still be problems as there is not often a new law introduced that is not fueled by a personal agenda.
There is so much work to do and so few people willing to make a change. But a change, one person at a time must be made or tragedies like we have been talking about will soon be nothing more then a local news story at the end of the broadcast.
With that I hoep that everyone of you are and will have an AWESOME day today, cause this is the best day of our lives.
That's what it all boils down to. If we could all just put God and others first....instead of ourselves.... What a difference it could make.
God is love, BTW. ...not religion.
[ April 18, 2007, 06:30 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7409 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
Todd, my answer to your comments is contained in Steve's words of wisdom.
"After 11 years of this, we all pretty well know that some of us enjoy a good fight and don't give a rat's ass who gets hurt in the process. When we can understand why that happens, and find a better way to deal with each other in a kinder way, we just may be able to make a small difference in our own small Community."
I wish that you would imagine yourself meeting all of those on this board who you disagree with, me included, at some meet and still behave in the same fashion you display on this board. Or are you really the person that you seem to enjoy portraying?
You assume an awful lot when you read between the lines of my post.
No we don't send unarmed police to meet armed raider but sometimes it happens that they are there on the spot first.
I can't remember when if ever we have had a situation similar to all these mass killings in Ireland but then again we don't have legally held handguns just .22's and shotguns.
in regard to the rape situation, you say I have 2 choices, watch or Kill. I think I have more choices than that. but maybe even that is different for you in the US.
And no Todd I don't hate you Americans, not even you. I just think a country that has to have metal detectors in your schools and public buildings is a country that has a bit of sorting out to do.
Todd, what I would appreciate is if you represent your views and opinions and not try and tear mine or anyone else's down.
Maybe I'll ring you one of these days and let you chew my ear off. maybe that might help.
My name is Miles and I live in a country that doesn't allow everyone to have a gun who wants one. and you know what, we do fine without them.
Si, Britain and Ireland are very different.
-------------------- Miles Cullinane, Cork, Ireland.
From the sometimes sunny south of Ireland, Posts: 914 | From: Cork, Ireland | Registered: Jul 1999
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Don't look for the reasons. They change nothing. Don't look for justice. He took it away when he fired his last shot.
Look for a way to stop this from ever happening again. Look to, and after, your kids.
Rapid
Out of all the crap that has been spewed in this post, this is the only thing that makes sense to me. Thank you Rapid.
As for me. I don't own a gun, never have and probably never will. Never hunted for sport or for food. Never had to. Those of you that hunt for food, thats fine. I respect anyone that takes care of there own. If you hunt for sport, than in my mind your just a egotistical p#%&@.
If you live in a place that you FEEL you have to own a gun for protection...MOVE.
And I know that there will be some that start the "well what if was your daughter/wife". Is having a gun going to make it better? The only time that I worry about my wife or child is when they are not in my sight. I don't worry about them at home because I feel I have built a home in a place were I don't really need to. When they are in public, aka work or school, what good is a gun going to do? Number one they could not have one at either place, and number two who is to say they would win the gun fight?
We live in a sick world. All the bitchin and cryin aint gonna change that. Its to late. If you think it ain't then you really are living a pipe dream.
We as a people, here or anywhere else should not have to worry about a gun for protection. Thats what the cops are for. There again, if you live somewhere that the cops do not do the jobs they are PAID to do...MOVE! Quit bitchin and MOVE.
There have been crazy people for the span of time. Why does it seem so much worse now? Could it be population? Could it be people feeling the need to have 5 or 6 kids? And then not being the role models that they should be? HHmmm...
Point fingers, pass the buck. Reap what you sow is a good statement. BUT, I am with most folks when it comes to keeping the rest of the world out. Its as simple as when you meet somebody or your kid makes a new friend that you don't care for. You rule them out and go on. Why as a nation can we not do this? It just confuses me.
The qoute that I led with from Rapid still is the root of all the evil. Parents are not parents anymore for the most part. But Are you going to live your life in fear because of the wierdo's? Life is short enough.
Enjoy the ride......because it is going to end
-------------------- Snow's Sign Works 865-908-0076 snowman@planetc.com www.snowsigns.com
I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message... Posts: 1640 | From: Sevierville, TN | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:I wish that you would imagine yourself meeting all of those on this board who you disagree with, me included, at some meet and still behave in the same fashion you display on this board. Or are you really the person that you seem to enjoy portraying?
Miles - reread your posts. You use words like "insane" when referring to those that believe in a right to self-preservation. You conjur up fantastically false pictures of Americans shooting trespassers and returning to days when everyone had a gun strapped to their belt...is this for real?
You say you have other choices in your country to handle a rapist in your home other than just standing by wishing it wasn't happening or shooting them. How about outlining those choices. I'd like to hear them.
I find many of your comments very anti-American, which I view as rude behavior and I pose the same question back at you in regards to how you would behave in a face-to-face meeting.
Tell me this: How have the gun bans enacted on law abiding citizens stopped the criminal element in your country? You just told me about how you have a problem with criminals and illegally obtained weapons, right? So how does disarming the honest people do anything to reduce the terror of the criminal element? Seems to me it just emboldens them.
I have several guns Miles....and guess what? The thought to use them for anything unlawful has never crossed my mind. You seem self-righteously content to put yourself on some kind of moral pedestal regarding gun owners by making such judgemental comments as, "I just wonder how many times does the scenes in VT have to be repeated before you who support the gun lobby, think again?"
Again - you seem to have your share of homeland problems with a mere 4 million inhabitants....don't you think that the US with 300 million people might statistically have a few more incidents such as what happened the other day?
I bet if you could bring back one of those kids and ask them if they could have had a gun in their backpack that day, they'd say, "Heck yeah."
I see no genuine sympathy in offering condolences impregnated with barbs against our culture.
You say you live in a country "that doesn't allow everyone to have a gun who wants one." There again, you are besmirching the US by alluding to our country as one that does....which is your perogative.
Except that it is a dishonest statement. 20 thousand gun laws in this country don't allow everyone who wants a gun to have one.
Personalities aside I will give you this - In this case...I would support adding a few more common sense gun laws: No NON-U.S. citizen can own a gun of any kind and "All people who are certified mentally disturbed (as this kid was) should be reported to the BATF (Bureau of Alchol, Tobacco and Firearms) and cross checked to make sure they don't own a gun - if they do, the BATF should physically remove them from their premises.
Bobbie - I respect you very much as a sensitive, warm hearted person...but please don't "shame me."
I have the right to feel how I feel and interpret language as it appears to me.
DO YOU WANT TO SEE YOUR WIFE AND DAUGHTER RAPED WITH THE BARREL OF YOUR OWN GUN BECAUSE SOME BADDERA$$ED DUDE THEN YOURSELF GOT TO IT BEFORE YOU AFTER WAKING YOU UP AT NIGHT???
...or how about this question... do you want people here writing the words "SEE YOUR WIFE AND DAUGHTER RAPED "
and then shoving those words in your face!!!
I think not... so why don't you forget about all this talk about these laws or those laws for a minute & just think about the "golden rule" before lambasting everyone here with your off the wall extremist BS!!
[ April 18, 2007, 09:00 PM: Message edited by: Doug Allan ]
posted
Doug - honestly. Those words don't bother me one bit. I deal in reality not fantasy. These are scenarios I've thought about myself, which are some of the reasons I believe in gun ownership. And I can tell you flat out that should I awaken at night to my daughter's screams as an intruder was attacking her, I would indeed "take him out." No question....and no apologies.
Please, allow me to respectfully disagree and respond to a quotation:
quote:DO YOU WANT TO SEE YOUR WIFE AND DAUGHTER RAPED WITH THE BARREL OF YOUR OWN GUN BECAUSE SOME BADDERA$$ED DUDE THEN YOURSELF GOT TO IT BEFORE YOU AFTER WAKING YOU UP AT NIGHT???
First, you assume that my guns are lying around, where a criminal can get to them before me - which they are not.
I am a responsible gun owner. The weapons I do have at my quick disposal are in various gun safes that only I know the combination/patterns to. I can retrieve one in seconds - but nobody else can.
In the event that I was somehow overcome....I could at least sleep at night (assuming I wasn't deep-sixed ) knowing I tried to do the right thing and protect my own.
I do think about the golden rule - but I think it should be universally applied and expected.
I am not lambasting "everyone here" with my off-the-wall extremist BS. There we go, just as I said earlier: Another law abiding gun owner being labled an "exremist" as opposed to a rational debate. Check the polls....the majority of Americans believe in the right to bear arms and protect their families.....must be a majority of Americans are extremists.
posted
I have an idea, why cant we all just understand that as long as people, ei:you and I are on this planet, there will be tragic events that will take place.
Any loss of life is tragic, especially if it is sudden. But that does not mean that I were to be struck down dead by a heart attack, my wife would pettition for every Bible in the country be banned.
Or if she were to be killed in a car crash that my love for cars would go away and i would cry out for a bann of automobiles.
It is not Guns which kill people, it is agenda and complacency. We ride other peoples agenda all too often, ok always.
The Golden rule ROCKS, and what ever happened to turning the other cheek.
As an adult, I have stood down even after being hit rather hard by a man that I knew I could easily tear apart, but why, so I can say I did, no because it was the right thing to do.
Face it, we live in a world full of slightly irregular people, even if your normal, you are irregular, it is by design, trust me on this.
But on either end, attacking ones views is not a solution, it is only addition to the destructive nature of us as humans.
Try the turn the other cheek, try putting another ahead, try it out on the street, not just here, and watch humanity change one life at a time.
[ April 19, 2007, 01:01 AM: Message edited by: Joe Golden ]
-------------------- Sharing the WORD one sign at a time!! Joe Golden Signage 721 Oak ST, Madisonville KY, 42431 270-871-0454 Posts: 270 | From: Madisonville, Kentucky | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
I do believe in gun ownership up here in the North,mostly for putting meat in the freezer. I do have a Mossberg 12 gauge with a stub barrel loaded with 00 buck in the shop but it is used to chase timber wolves and bears out of the yard and away from the kids. What scares me is the arming of extremists in the name of protecting our rights and groups of folks who gather and practice to protect our freedom. A number of times I have heard automatic gunfire in the distance and wondered who had felt they were above the law and practicing to protect their endangered rights. Here's what a few of Todd's neighbors are doing [URL=Michigan Militia Homepage they take gun ownership to the extreme. It scares me more to see these folks running around in the woods than the chance an intruder will enter my house while I'm in it. About a year ago I decided to take the guns out of my house and lock them in the shop in a gun safe. I have put my families life in the hands of God, Sadie the barking dog,a ball peen hammer and a flashlite. I decided to give up on fear. As we have seen at VT, it can all come down to being in the wrong place at the wrong time, or as some people say when your time is up it is up. One can either live in a hole in fear of life or go ahead with life and trust in God. Say a prayer for the families grieving the deaths of their loved ones and curse the media who is exploting this tragedy for their profit.
-------------------- Silver Creek Signworks Dick Bohrer Two Harbors, MN Posts: 236 | From: Two Harbors, MN USA | Registered: Jun 1999
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Jake and Joe, you got my vote too, for rational & respectable morals & more ability then I to express them civilly.
Todd, your own defense against being called an extremist, is another example of why you are! You blame Miles for perceived implications between the lines of his posts, yet you imply that folks are against the right to bear any arms. Nobody has said that!! That would be "extreme." You imply that because your now-deleted melodramatic wife raping post was labled "extremist" ...that every American who supports the second amendment should be judged the same!!! Nope... that would be "extreme" ...only you have earned that label.
You are not simply one of America's majority who support the constitution... you are the self appointed figurehead of a liberal-bashing agenda that's crossed far from speaking for what you support, into comdemning what you don't support. That is what is extreme, & that is what is BS
quote: By Todd Gill: I can tell you flat out that should I awaken at night to my daughter's screams as an intruder was attacking her, I would indeed "take him out." No question....and no apologies.
I hear nothing extreme here and it appears neither does the Lord.
"If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed. If the sun has risen on him, there shall be guilt for his bloodshed. He should make full restitution; if he has nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft" (Exodus 22: 2-3.)
quote: By Jake Snow: If you live in a place that you FEEL you have to own a gun for protection...MOVE.....I don't worry about them at home because I feel I have built a home in a place were I don't really need to....We as a people, here or anywhere else should not have to worry about a gun for protection. Thats what the cops are for. There again, if you live somewhere that the cops do not do the jobs they are PAID to do...MOVE! Quit bitchin and MOVE.
That's a nice little Utopia you live in. I guess the rest of us mere mortals will just become gypsies.
quote: By Dick Bohrer: About a year ago I decided to take the guns out of my house and lock them in the shop in a gun safe. I have put my families life in the hands of God, Sadie the barking dog,a ball peen hammer and a flashlite.
I must be missing something? So instead of shooting a perp you'll bludgeon them with a hammer? What is the difference? Other than one's a lot messier.
posted
Careful. We're starting to drift into the same old conflicts that really have nothing to do with the subject. Once it goes personal, it's gone.
You can't read this stuff without seeing that some of us do indeed love a good fight. It is ok to read a post you disgree with and just shake your head and chuckle.
The strangest thing I saw today was the chilling video this guy sent to NBC. The violence and horror in this whole story is obsene, yet someone felt his use of everyday cuss words required censureship. Very strange.
-------------------- Steve Shortreed 144 Hill St., E. Fergus, Ontario Canada N1M 1G9 519-787-2673
posted
thanks Todd, yep, nothing personal... just trying to grasp each others words... ain't always easy.
(by the way, I also enjoyed Si's link because it reads as a well researched factual acounting of data, that allows the reader to draw their own conclusions through being enlightened to facts, rather then choked into submission with them)
[ April 19, 2007, 07:44 AM: Message edited by: Doug Allan ]
posted
I was off sick these last few days and this was my first chance at my computer, I don'thave one at home. First I want to express my deepest condolences to all the families and to all our American Friends.. this has affected me in many ways, shock, anger, and great sadness. This tragedy has moved me in so many ways. There's not much a Canadian can say that will change the way some of you truely feel about this, there's just too much history behind it. 300 million people, I guess the odds catch up that something like this is going to happen from time to time.
I feel so sorry for you guys.
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
...It's DESPICABLE that anyone would get on here and defend firearms after the horrible gun murder spree at VT. If people in other countries look upon Americans as a bunch of deranged, paranoid, religious extremists, this issue is a primary reason why they do. People who declare they need a gun for "protection" are ONE TRIGGER PULL away from being just as much of a criminal as the sicko at VT. Bobbi is right. SHAME ON YOU!
My mother lives alone since she and my father separated and divorced back in 1995. A couple years after the divorce, my mother was trying to help a mother who had been falsely accused of child abuse. The accused mother had been sitting in the county jail for two weeks and the PD had never once been there to talk to her.
Long story short. The mother was very innocent. During my mom's efforts to help the accused, she uncovered and publicly exposed corruption going on in the department of social services and the police department. As a result, the director of SS and the city police chief were forced to resign.
During the investigations by the SBI, my mother's home had been broken into. All four tires on her car were slashed even though the car was parked in a locked garage. She came home one afternoon and found one of her steak knives with the tip painted red in her mailbox.
Tell me, would it be despicable for her to support her right to self-defense by owning a Glock 17? Is she really just one trigger pull away from becoming as much of a criminal as the sicko at VT?
posted
Let's just say that guns are a matter of how you grew up and who you grew up with. It's the same as a lot of things. In some places in Europe the drinking age is very low, teenagers are legal. In some areas of the world you have to be 21. What you know is what you are comfortable with. I don't think Todd having a gun or not in his home made any difference in VT. If it makes him feel better to have one, fine. I don't think gun laws make much difference. Because the people who are doing these horrific acts are not paying any attention to the "local gun laws". What I do think is that instead of arguing about gun laws maybe we should use all that thinking power to a better end. Let's try to come up with suggestions to a solution rather than spending our time fighting about gun laws. We are a large body of very creative minds. Perhaps we could twig a decent idea here instead of the stupid bloody bickering that doesn't change anything.
Just my 2 cents.
OK now my next 2 cents. When my children were small they would go over to another child's house to perhaps stay overnight. It always happened that the other children would want to watch the latest "scary" movie. My youngest in particular had real problems with this as every time she watched a scary movie she would have nightmares etc. Just a matter of too much imagination. She came home one day and said "So and so wanted to watch that new creepy movie last night Mom. But I told them I didn't wnat to watch that. And we didn't." Maybe if we teach our children to stick up for what they want to do instead of going along with the norm they will start to think for themselves. I think we need more people to cry out- Hey we don't need 12 different killing movies running at the same time. We don't want to see the steady stream of violence and murder on the screens. Because it IS now starting to become something the children are growing up with. Let's start our own little movement against violence, just around us. I don't know, maybe it could spread. Maybe its not too late.
[ April 19, 2007, 09:15 AM: Message edited by: Deri Russell ]
-------------------- Deri Russell Wildwood Signs Hanover, Ontario
You're just jealous 'cause the little voices only talk to me. Posts: 1904 | From: Hanover, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
OK I got an idea. Just a twig. Ok it may be a really small twig. More like a bud. What about starting email letters for everybody on your list (stating our concerns to our local gov't) about the escalating violence in our society and perhaps..........bans on the number of violent ....say, movies that could play at the same time.......OK that's against their rights isn't it?
Anybody else got any twigs?
-------------------- Deri Russell Wildwood Signs Hanover, Ontario
You're just jealous 'cause the little voices only talk to me. Posts: 1904 | From: Hanover, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
I wish people that don't live in the US would quit viewing us through the typical stereotypes. Most of our communities are just as safe and probably safer from the type of violence described here than other countries.
We are not locked and loaded ready to shoot the first trespasser or big mouth. Take out the violence and mayhem of the major cities and life is pretty good and safe. Of course there are other concerns for safety that don't seem to get discussed much like the carnage on our highways, violations by governments and such. Then there is good old war, that's good violence.
I have a lot of problems with society the way it is now, but gun ownership is way down the list. Worrying about someone like Todd shooting me at the front door is even further down the list.
You know I really wanted for many years to make a trip to Ireland and England. So far Ireland is still on the list. I regard the latter as just not too safe. (Of course, I assume the smaller communities compare nicely to our's here).
-------------------- Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Posts: 2789 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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posted
Glenn, she just needs to move. I don't care she's lived there her whole life, sorry. No, it's ridiculous for her to have a gun, she should just stock up on Rolaids and throw them at the maniac that has it in for her... maybe she can hit 'im in the eye.
That way if she goes on a rampage, all they'll have to do is pick up all the Rolaids.
-------------------- Jon Jantz SnappySign Walnut Hill, FL Posts: 3396 | From: Atmore, AL | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Joe- I could use one of my sparrow throwing tomahawks but I feel a blow to the head with a dead blow hammer would be a lot cleaner,and its up close and personal. Plus it avoids blasting one of the kids coming home from a late date or letting the dog out. How's your aim and judgement waking from a sound sleep. But the point being extreme deadly force isn't always needed and can be avoided in a lot of cases.
I guess I lead a sheltered life, we only lock the house at nite and leave the keys in the trucks. The shop is unlocked so UPS can deliver and pick up when I'm gone and customers pick up their signs and leave a check on the bench. The neighbors have a Art Gallery that is run on the honor system, customers check themselves out and leave the cash in a pot. I've checked on the shop while they have been on vacation and emptied the cash pot of hundreds of dollars. The weird thing is they have never been ripped off, maybe its just the art types that frequent galleries, but isn't this the way society should be? How do we turn it around with more Guns? Alot of you talk as if you are born again, would Jesus handle it with an assault rifle, I don't think so.
-------------------- Silver Creek Signworks Dick Bohrer Two Harbors, MN Posts: 236 | From: Two Harbors, MN USA | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
Now that the media has shed more light on this individual, we now know that he was a danger to himself and society. So, what happened? Why was he on the streets, allowed to interact with the public? Why did a public institution, that knew he was dangerous, allow him on campus? Who made the decision to release him after he was declared mentally unfit by a court of law? Why weren't the recent complaints by students and teachers followed up and acted upon? The current gun control laws, if properly enforced, would have prevented him from legally buying a gun. Unfortunately, the current laws don't provide funding for the proper enforcement of the law. In stead, they would rather waste the money on pork barrel projects that only serve a select few instead of serving the public interest. Would any law have prevented him from buying a gun? I doubt it. A determined criminal will acquire a gun anyway. As I mentioned earlier, there's a lot to be blame to be shared here. I just hope something good somes of such a tragety. I doubt that will happen though.
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3777 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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Jesus let himself be crucified on a cross....and was God and man.
I certainly wouldn't claim to be anywhere near the perfection of Jesus. I doubt Jesus would wack an attacker in the skull with a ball-peen hammer either.
PS - I'm a little disappointed that you might associate me or any of my neighbors with the Michigan Militia (here's what some of Todd's neighbors are up to). That's a huge leap, and pretty unfair....but hey Peace, Love, and Bobby Sherman."
Have a great day everyone, be safe and be grateful for the lives we have been given.
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Congratulations Brian..... Finally someone who GETS it! There is an excellent book written by Pete Earley called "Crazy". I highly recommend it to anyone who is interested in the state of mental health in the States. I've corresponded with Pete and he hopes to publish more books on the mentally ill in the near future. His book is the story of his coming to terms with his son's illness but also about the state of the Mental Health System in the United States. Since they closed all the State institutions the American Penitentiaries have become the housing unit for the mentally ill. Until they commit an illegal act there is no place for them to go. No one can understand the frustration and pain of families with loved ones who are sick. My heart absolutely bleeds for this boys family and for his lost life as well as the other lost lives that his illness ended. As our societies continue to "progress" the pressures and influences on our young become greater and greater. Stress is a major trigger in delusional behavior....this isn't going to get better with time. We need the resources to figure out how to help these kids. We need the resources to research what is happening in their minds and find was to effectively treat them. Mostly we need places for them that will keep both them and us safe in the interim. We owe that to them and ourselves. 1 in 100 people in the world have schizophrenia. 1 in 10 suffer from dehabilitating depression. I'm not sure what the stats are on the rest of the mental illnesses...but walk down a crowded street and think about that fact.... With support and monitoring these people are no threat to us or themselves. Unlike an alcoholic or drug addict this is not self induced. They are not to blame...hopefully someday we will have the answers as to what causes a healthy well adjusted young person's mind to suddenly start to short out, for now we need to do what we can. Read the book, and make yourself part of the solution. Thanks for listening.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5499 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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Checkers, the mental illness issue is another matter altogether. Anybody with any experience dealing with a mentally ill person can tell you just how frustrating the system can be. It seems some people felt it was more important to buy bombs than take care of the sick. It raised the level of what was "sick" to unbelieveable heights. The vast majority of homeless people are mentally ill. They shouldn't be out on the streets. They were labled by one President as "homeless by choice" The trend to "less government involvement" isn't always the best idea and it seems that there really isn't less involvement, it just gets shifted from taking care of our own to meddling into forigners lives.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
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Todd- Come here I'll give you a Big Biker Hug- I can't compare myself to Jesus, I'm a sinner and know it.
No personal attack on you, just pointing out their are folks that take gun rights to the extreme. I would have pointed out the militias in Minnesota but the FBI has blocked their web sites, guess they were more extreme than Michigan. Or we could have looked at the Posse in Wisconsin, they even have Billboards.
Time to listen to talk radio and wet the brush, and get worked up about something else, maybe something I can solve myself.
Take Care
-------------------- Silver Creek Signworks Dick Bohrer Two Harbors, MN Posts: 236 | From: Two Harbors, MN USA | Registered: Jun 1999
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I don't know about anyone else, but I am sick and tired of hearing about Bobby Sherman!
...besides, whatever happened to peace love and harmony?
Harmony is a good word, because it speaks to what I believe any democracy is really after. (& any good BB for that matter)
Sure, people want freedoms... but I think most people respect that there is some diversity in the world & if the majority of people can get along (in harmony) that just might be worth a little bit of compromise.
Dialog is good. If our democracy can continue (or begin once again) to improve, we can have a voice in what we do in our changing world, & after everyones voice is heard, we find a middle ground.
quote:Originally posted by Checkers: Now that the media has shed more light on this individual, we now know that he was a danger to himself and society... The current gun control laws, if properly enforced, would have prevented him from legally buying a gun.
BINGO! ...but they weren't enforced properly, so now what? Eliminate gun control laws?
quote:Originally posted by Checkers: Would any law have prevented him from buying a gun? I doubt it. A determined criminal will acquire a gun anyway.
...so do we assume that a law that is not enforced with 100% success, has never prevented similar tragedy's?
And just how "determined" of a criminal was this kid? I forget the exact date but I believe they know he bought at least one of those guns over a year ago.
I'm far more concerned about our nations ability to hear everyones voice & act honestly on the wishes of the people, then I am about any one specific trend towards eroding our constitutional rights.
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3777 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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) knowing I tried to do the right thing and protect my own.![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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The trend to "less government involvement" isn't always the best idea and it seems that there really isn't less involvement, it just gets shifted from taking care of our own to meddling into forigners lives. 
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