posted
Wikipedia is open source - so go correct their information. Sign painting is only "lost" to people who can't do it.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I especially like Cam's answer as I feel the exact same way. Wikipedia is a perfect example of lessor educated persons postings of something they know nothing about. Next thing you'll find is that Wikipedia has made pinstriping into two words pin striping as if one word doesn't make sense.
Oh well education is hard to find these days
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
posted
The better the reason to paint more and cut VYNULL less.
-------------------- Sharing the WORD one sign at a time!! Joe Golden Signage 721 Oak ST, Madisonville KY, 42431 270-871-0454 Posts: 270 | From: Madisonville, Kentucky | Registered: Oct 2006
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I didn't see the article, but, if another generation doesn't learn it, it's only a matter of time. I was thinking that it must be much harder to learn these days, knowing in the back of your mind that a machine can do it.
But on the other hand, you don't have to rush your learning, knowing that you can't start in this business till you have it 'down' pretty well.
Right now, I'm making myself learn something I've long been a bit intimidated by: Human faces. I've done them for a long time, but in a more general way. They looked OK, but not like any specific person. Now I'm overcoming that, and it's great.
It's like excersize, you just do 20 minutes each morning, or when you can. Very rewarding.
[ April 16, 2007, 11:24 PM: Message edited by: James Donahue ]
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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I agree with Cam also. It's not lost here. I just love picking up a quill, dagger, liner or fitch and creating something that not many can do.
There is nothing better than hand lettering a truck, gold leafing a window or decorative pinstriping a vehicle or motocycle or mixing any color of the rainbow from only a hand full of primary colors of one shot
When the power goes out I can still work. Long live brother's and Sister's of the Brush!
-------------------- Len Mort Signmaker1.com 11 Juniper Drive Millbury, MA 508-865-2382 "A Good Business Sign, is A Sign of Good Business"(1957) Posts: 811 | From: Millbury, Ma | Registered: Dec 2006
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I just came back from the ISA sign show where I saw about a million of those LOST sauls, looking to purchase miracle printing machines that will make sign-makers out of them...
posted
Another thing I find disappointing is the original reference to "Letterhead" or "Letterheads" is gone. Jay Allen brought it up in this discussion. So, did anyone save it so we could repost the original?
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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It will never be lost til they pry the still wet lettering brush from the last signpainters dead hand.
I think maybe we are a little concieted to think we are the only people still lettering by hand...there are other countries that haven't the mixed blessings of computer signage and I'm betting they are still hard at it with a brush of some kind dipped into a paint like substancce we are not familiar with...to them it's not dead either.
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
posted
Group of sign and decorative artists that meet during the year for hand lettering rallies and to exchange lost "tricks of the trade" and accumulated skills. Originated in Denver CO in 1975 by seven signshop apprentices. They were Rick Flores, John Frazier, Bob Mitchell, Mark Oatis, Mike Rielly, Carl Vehill and Noel Weber. There were additions made in the early 80's and the movement took off from there. There was a meeting at Noel's in the summer of '82 and then Mike Jackson's Oklahoma meet in October of the same year. Raymond Chapman had a Texas gathering in November, 1983.
The group now has grown worldwide to numbers in the thousands. The Letterheads traditionally gather for one annual "International" meet in the US or Canada, as well as 10 or more smaller regional meets throughout, but not limited to, the US, Canada, Australia and the UK. 2005 marks the first meet held in Greece.
Meetstypically last for several days, and consist of attendees participating in lettering, striping, carving, gold leafing(gilding) and often glass art. Besides the incredible amount of talent and skill demonstrated during these events, it is the free exchange of knowledge and commeradarie amongst people of the same trade that makes these weekends remarkable.
Several "walldog" meets have occurred over the years, where the Letterheads have gathered to teach, learn and practice large mural painting. One of these took place in 1997, in Belvidere,Illinois. Over 300 artists from all over the world joined forces to create nine murals in three days. The work was donated by the artists to the town of Belvidere, with all compositions depicting the town's history.
The Letterhead mission is to pass on trade "secrets" and skills through the ages, "keeping their craft alive" for future generations. With the onset of computers and vinyl films for signmaking, the Letterhead mission of passing down the traditional skills is more important today than ever before.
-------------------- Pat Neve, Jr. 321-537-8675 Capt. Sign
posted
Thanks Pat, I put it up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letterheads I also tried to edit the sign painting page to include a link to it, but we'll see how it goes
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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i went to the "paint store" today where i buy 1 SHOT/RONAN paint. shelf is down to a few cans of each..THATS IT.....owner said he aint gona stock it anymore.......once this is gone.............
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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I wonder how many folks who bemoan the "dying art" have actually made the effort to train someone who will make this a career choice. I'm not talking about passing a few tidbits of information to an eager sponge at a Letterhead Meet....that's in effect preaching to the converted. I'm talking about actually hiring, and training an individual to the point where they can go out and make themselves a living within the craft of signpainting.
If you haven't done so, then when you pass on, croak, die, or however you express your personal demise, you've effectively left NO successor. So, if we're brutally honest here.....there's no one to blame but ourselves.
-------------------- Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com
Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ? Posts: 2684 | From: London,Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 1999
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KEN..it aint us.. my freind.....I HAVE OFFERED, TRIED & HAVE GIVEN INSTRUCTIONS...but this crowd of off spring that you and your children have PRODUCED.....HAVE NO AMBITION, DRIVE OR WILL TO LEARN.....just look at JAY LENOS...JAY WALKING....ask someone 21 and under simple things...WE KNOW AND HAVE KNOW since we was their age.......and you get "the deer in headlights" like geo w does............... yep times have changed.....in my opinion the last couple generations are really missin a lot of knowledge.....THERE ARE A FEW... but a lot less then when i was a kid.... today its all computer/games/ none are physical...ask em to dig a ditch.....chop a tree, build something.....most cant read a ruler...or count change.......and puttin a TOOL in their hands.....is SUICIDE for anyone near. all the kids today are GRAPHIC ARTISTS...but cant draw a stick figure....ask them how they can say they are graphic artists......duh!!!!!!!!!!!!
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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...Pushing buttons to make a sign is much easier than painting them! There is nearly no 'learning curve'. Especially for someone who has little (or no) knowledge of the graphic arts. Any goof with money can do it! Sorry to say it, but anybody who has bought a plotter (to make stick-on letters) is GUILTY of killing the craft of sign writing.
posted
Younger generation... blah blah ..... no respect .... blah blah .... not good designers .... blah blah blah
You sound like every stereotypical old man you see in the movies. Do I need to remind you how many old snapper stories people have posted about "HAND LETTERING CRAFTSMEN" who only half knew one font and painted everything on particle board with house paint? Or the fact that now, 15 years after hand lettering began it's demise, I still hear drunk sign painter stories?
Those Glory Days of hand lettering weren't all that glorious. I can talk about the old days when we did vinyl on the Gerber 4b the same way...now all these new guys have got their digital printers....blah blah blah.
Take you an extra shot or two of Metamucil and quit hating all those "damn meddlin' kids"
-------------------- Pat Whatley Montgomery, AL (334) 262-7446 office (334) 324-8465 cell Posts: 1306 | From: Wetumpka, AL USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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I gotta agree with Pat's comments. After about a year in this business, I learned about letterheads and wanted to learn how to hand letter in a very bad way. When I was finally able to find a full service shop that still did some hand lettering, I stopped in. I met the owner who happened to be the biggest a$$ I've ever met. In the brief conversation I had with him, all he did was complain about how the vinyl shops ruined the industry. Needless to say, he wasn't hiring and I wouldn't work for him even if he was. Justice was served about 2 years later when he came into the shop I was working at and he needed to order a sign I still would love learn how to "paint" signs, but I haven't found anyone local who is willing to share.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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Ah yes, and how many or who mourned the passing of the dinasour? What really grieves me is to think, when someone passes on, most or all of their knowledge dies with them. How many of us have passed down all we know to the following generation? I have tried to teach others my various crafts and pass my knowledge to others. No one wants to or can afford the time to properly learn any trade or craft today. How many companies today have apprentice programs available? I see many help wanted ads that state experienced only need apply! I could go for at least two more hours, but I won't bore you with what you already know. 47 years in the trade and still kicking! Peace, Don
-------------------- Donald Miner ABCO Wholesale Neon 1168 Red Hill Creek Dobson, NC Posts: 842 | From: North Carolina | Registered: Apr 2006
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Checkers, you mean OP was still in Pa back then? Okay, that was uncalled for, because the industry has always had a reputation for secrecy and bad attitudes, and people like that were plentiful. As I recall, that's why the Letterhead movement began - to share knowledge instead of being defensive and secretive.
As for training someone, it's a hard sell to convince someone that they should learn to do by hand what they see being done by machine, without the investment of hundreds of hours of practice. Most of us who still paint have also purchased vinyl-cutting machines, as much out of economic necessity as anything - we still have to make a living in this world. I probably cut a smaller volume of vynull than any shop I know of, but that's by choice.
As for training someone, anyone who wants to learn is welcome at my shop anytime. There's a motel down the street that rents by the week; I'll supply pattern paper and one-shot and help you buy your brushes so you get the right ones. You can practice all day; I'll be happy to get you started, give you pointers and encouragement; hell, I'll even through in a free mahlstick. If I could afford to pay someone to practice half a day and work here the other half, I would, but the reality is a trainee has to be willing and able to invest his or her own time in learning to letter.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I still would love learn how to "paint" signs, but I haven't found anyone local who is willing to share. SURE YOU WOULD....IF...you could learn it in 1 DAY..... iam with cam here....and i left PA in 1981, and bever had a shop there....)))))))))))))))))) so there cam..hehehehehehhe. ive said it befor to those who wish to learn, ill give what know(not as much as most old timers have)but i can "sling paint" in a timly manner to make money at it. in fact got a wall paint job to do next week......small but still lookin forward to it....... and as for you pat...THE PLUMBER CRACK BOY... comon down...big boy.......you aint that fer away.......))))))))))))))))))))
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Okay, that was uncalled for, because the industry has always had a reputation for secrecy and bad attitudes, and people like that were plentiful. As I recall, that's why the Letterhead movement began - to share knowledge instead of being defensive and secretive. 
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