posted
Hope it don't get locked before I get to say:
Thank You, John. I've enjoyed getting to know you, and working on SONGPAINTER with you back in 2000-2001. (John's art work was on the cover of the first ever music CD totally themed to the sign craft and totally original songs written and performed by signcrafters.
We all felt the frustration when only a hand few of letterheads bought SongPainter (and we were just trying raise money to do something worthwhile)
I hope we continue to see you post here. You are a bigger than life, almost, if not, an icon on this forum. You are a greater encouragement than you know to many you don't even know.
Now, I'm going to go put SongPainter on and mull over the CD cover you made for a spark of inspiration today. (I keep saying: What would John do?")
[ March 22, 2007, 10:49 AM: Message edited by: Dave Draper ]
Concerning the CDs. I realize opinions are like buttholes. We all have 'em. But if I may.
This is just an idea, but have you considered producing more topical CDs at a lower cost? Here is what I mean. Lets say we have three different topics - Construction Vehicles, Street Machines and Mascots.
For the Construction Vehicles the CD would include three different views of the same vehicle - a side view, front view and the 3/4 view (like you have now). You may have it limited to just a few different vehicles such as a dump truck, bulldozer, backhoe and a couple others. Perhaps no more than 18 to 24 separate renderings altogether.
And instead of selling the CD for $130, you would sell it for $65.
I realize that you are offering 75 different vehicles for $130. The problem is that from my perspective as a buyer/user, I'm only going to buy when I actually need something. And given my market, in a sense I'm spending $130 to get the few images that will actually do me any good.
By buying a smaller group of images that are more conducive to my needs, its much easier to break out that credit card.
Its like right now. I have a t-shirt job to do for a tractor pull event. If there was a Redneck CD (I'm allowed to use that word considering the sunburn I have right now) and it had a few useful images for only $65, I'd be placing an order right now.
Marketing your CDs this way can increase the volume of sales and you'll actually end up with more money in your pocket at the end of the year.
Anyhow, thats just my thinking and worth what ya paid for it. I hope you'll consider it.
posted
I don't know John Deaton . I'm sure he's a talented and nice guy. I wish you good luck Man!
When things go wrong As they sometimes will, When the Road you’re trudging Seems all uphill, When the funds are low And the debts are high, And you want to smile But you have to sigh, When care is pressing you down a bit, Rest if you must But don’t you quit. Life is queer With its twists and turns, As every one of us Sometimes learns, And many a Failure turns about, When you might have won Had you stuck it out. Don’t give up, Though the pace seems slow- you may succeed with another blow. Success if failure turned Inside out- The silver tint of the clouds of doubt. And you never can tell how close you are; It may be near When it seems so far. So stick to the fight When you’re hardest hit- It’s when things seem worst That you must not quit.
-------------------- Sal Cabrera Signs By Sal New Freedom , PA
The goal of Yesterday will be the Stating Point of Tomorrow! Posts: 686 | From: New Freedom , PA US | Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
Honest to God, this just sucks! I just came on here and have to read this. I've talked to John Privately by email about some other issues and found him to be one of the good guys. Like I said before I would love to have a collection of trades people, plumbers, carpenters, constuction workers, plaster or painters, mechanics, carpet layers, appliance repairmen, you name it, I will buy it. Trades I could use one almost everyweek. I'm sure that others would as well. John please reconsider,I'd hate to lose one of the good guys, I hav't met anyone in person yet on the bullboard, except for Kelly, which was great!
Take care buddy.
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
That's a wonderful poem Sal. I've personally kept that posted on the fridge at various periods in my own life. My problem was that I beleved it meant that I had to constatly bang my head against the wall until something gave.
Recognizing problems and taking action to fix them is not quitting. The sign business is often a fun thing to do for a living, but our first goal has to be to support ourselves and often a Family. In some cases, it might involve doing something drastic like relocating or even pulling the plug.
All of us have tough times. Most believe more money is the cure. It's easy to look at your neigbour's situation and decide, based on your own self esteem, that you are failing. It's important to remember that the race is not yet over. Burnout happens to all of us. I'm experiencing some of that myself right now.
People seem to always try and fix the blame instead of the problem. Nobody likes change, but there are times in our life when we need to do an honest check from the neck up, and take action.
If income is the problem, you have to change the way you are doing things. This might involve a move, a career change, or diversifying your income. I personally like the idea of my wife getting a fulltime job.
Looks like we have another crisis in Letterville. Someone we all know and respect is angry at Letterville. Instead of taking some comfort from the support and suggestions offered by the Community, they see leaving as the best way out. We've been down this road several times in the last 11 years.
Letterville bashing is a popular sport these days. Our phone has been ringing all day. The emails are flying back and forth. Everyone wants to know the real story. One guy stated that Letterville was going to hell in a handbasket. He heard it in chat so it must be true.
Just for the record, there is nothing wrong with Letterville. Our stats, available to anyone, continue to indicate the website is still growing. Do your own research. Count the posts today, and compare them to 2, 4, even 6 years ago. Letterheads from all over the World continue to need their Letterville fix everyday. And why not? It's almost always a good thing.
Our original goal for the website was to promote the Letterhead Movement, and do whatever we could to get you guys to attend live meets. So how are we doing?
Take a look at the Past Meets Page. Over the years, with your help, we've been able to document over 120 Letterhead Meets all over the World. Many of these meets were a direct result of People that met right here in Letterville. I'm proud that future generations of Letterheads will have this archive to reference.
We could go on about the numerous Panel Swaps, Step By Steps, Sign Of The Month and other goodies, but those that love to badmouth Letterville will always be there. Sometimes it gets personal, and yes, sometimes it does hurt. There is some comfort in knowing that it was Letterville that put these characters together.
I'm wandering off topic. Letterville exists to bring people together. Anytime someone feels bad due to something they read here, we feel bad. The majority of posters are careful to choose words that uplift and/or give hope. Unfortunitly, there are others that love to shoot from the hip, and don't give a rat's ass who they hurt in the process. There are many that will smile and pat you on the back in person, yet take great delight in running you down behind the scenes.
I've been thinking about monsters alot lately. Not the monsters on TV or the movies, but that hidden monstor inside each of us. We all have one.
You will never really know a person until you meet their monster. All of us have met people that we thought we liked and admired until we met their monster. Sometimes that Monster is a hidden addiction, illness, or anger management issue. It's always a shock to see the dark side of a Friend or Relative make their appearence.
I'm trying to discover my own Monster.
[ March 23, 2007, 01:45 AM: Message edited by: Steve Shortreed ]
-------------------- Steve Shortreed 144 Hill St., E. Fergus, Ontario Canada N1M 1G9 519-787-2673
posted
Geeze, what I got started. Let me see if I can kinda straighten this out a little. I aint bashing letterville. If it came off that way, it wasnt intended to be that. I wasnt bashing anyone here on the site. Again, if it came off that way, it wasnt intended. A chain of things happened that set me off over the last few days, starting with me posting about my business being bad. I got calls from letterheads about my post, and apparently some emails that I didnt receive. That led to me being questioned on whether I was just huffing off at the mouth, or really being in financial straits. That got under my skin a little.Even though I now know it wasnt intended to do that. I posted a re-do of my website, nobody replied to it, that added fuel to my fire. I changed the topic of the post to "Nuttin Happenin" and it was thought that I still was worried about my business and financial situation. Business had picked up some, so I was feeling better. I only meant that nothing was happening on my post. Thats all. So a chain of little things just kind of set me off, and I was smarting a little over my cd sales here, so I went out on a limb and posted about it. It was never meant to mean that letterville was the cause. The site had nothing to do with it. Barb and Steve have did their best to help and I appreciate it. They do their best all the time to try and help people here. This just all snowballed until it became something I didnt want it too. Ive got a mean temper, although I have never shown it to people on here. Guess I did this time. Sorry about that. My decision to not post anymore wont affect anybody but me. Thats something Ill hash out over time. I really wish you would just close this whole thing Steve and delete it so it can be forgotten.
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
JOhn, your vehicles cds look great! I just have no use for that kind of stuff (yet), but it did not occur to me till now to ask you if you would do caricatures on commission/contract. Even if not vectorised, just drawn.
I had two jobs recently that I needed cartoony animals for, and I suck at that, so I got our kids to eventually do them, and they were great, but if I'd had it in my mind that you'd do that, I'd have probably zapped the details straight to you- it's just that I tended to think "vehikles" rather than "great cartoons", which I realise now is wrong.
Also, on Fred's site, you can go to a link and buy vector art, one piece at a time- to me that is more useful, even at a higher pice each, than a bulk lot for $100s, as I don't often need fresh stuff other than what I have.
Would you consider selling an image at a time from the vehikles cd? The mode of thought is that people might frequently buy three, when they started out looking for only one...
Thart's a bit how I buy fonts, except the Signfonts collection is great value and cheap and useful, so the whole lot is an easy ask! I don't mean yours isn't, but I'll go to LHF looking for a specific single font, but buy maybe three or five others while I am at it.
Back to the original query- caricatures to order- would you do it?
This wouldn't be too different from Dan Antonelli or Joe Diaz doing a website to order, or Stevo doing a logo to order- not a mass-production item, but an individual commission.
I hope all goes well for you!
edited to add, I type too slowly, so your above post beat me to it- so please don't stop posting before you answer that query!
[ March 22, 2007, 07:17 PM: Message edited by: Ian Stewart-Koster ]
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
John what Glen Taylor said would be better for me as well.I don't have a colour printer cutter and a lot of your stuff needs this.I will only send money orders to buy anything.I started doing trucks only and these images would work fine.Good luck-Randy
-------------------- Randall Campbell Randy's Graphics, 420 Fairfield N. Hamilton Ontario Canada Posts: 2857 | From: Hamilton Ontario Canada | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
Hey John... Just keep in mind that you are always welcome here. We're like family (that you choose)... Sometimes we all need a break. We'll keep the "fire stoked" til you get back.
-------------------- Nancie W. Phillips White Dove Painting Studio 74 Dacula Road, Dacula, GA 30019 678-887-3339
posted
And don't forget us guy's and maybe gall's that want the whole CD at a decent price, which your's certainly are...like I said in the personal e-mail, your talent is definatly needed and APPRECIATED, just maybe it needs to be a little more flexible...By the way, GREAT LOOKING WEB SITE! Robin
-------------------- Robin Sharrard Sharrard Graphics & Sign Fallon, Nevada rds@phonewave.net "Proud $$$ Supporter" Posts: 282 | From: Fallon, Nevda, USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted
I was a little offended. I didn't know where it was going, but I tend to not get too offended when people are showing their emotions. I'm glad you've cooled off.
I think you've received some really valuable feedback about the way people want to buy vector art. I don't get much of a call for the style you do, but I do know your CD's exist because you're a merchant here. I let my subscription to Signcraft lapse(Gasp) and haven't gotten around to renewing it (I could have sworn I signed up for 3 years last time around).
Anyway, I'm sure if you ever decide to come back around you'll be greeted with grins.
Telling the site that you are "done" was "done" to get a reaction. You got a darn good one!
Thanks for your explanation of why you made this decision.
I am somewhat new here & didn't really understand your motives for quitting. It's still not crystal clear to me but hey, thanks for being a part of it!
Good luck my friend!
-------------------- Michael R. Bendel Bendel Sign Co,. Inc. Sauk Rapids, MN Posts: 913 | From: Sauk Rapids, MN | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Wow, I have not been on here to see this. I saw it yesterday & had no time to read them all & comment. John, my heart feels so heavy for you, but there is so much hope!
Nettie is so right, the glass IS half full!
And Jim Donahue has put it all exactly how I feel too. PLEASE don't quit. Please e mail him, ok? I have been where he is, I know what he wants to say, & there is MUCH wisdom & TRUTH in it.
This place would not be the same without you posting! I have always loved your posts & your work!!!!
-------------------- The Word in Signs Bobbie Rochow Jamestown, PA 16134
724-927-6471
thewordinsigns@alltel.net Posts: 3485 | From: Jamestown, PA 16134 | Registered: Oct 2002
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posted
Really wish you wouldn't leave John....You're one of the reasons I like perusing this site....truly!
Your talent has always been an inspiration to many, including me....and regardless of our sometimes varying outlooks on life...I think (and hope) you know I respect you immensely and would be saddened to see you split....'
The portfolio section wouldn't be the same without you.
posted
I think when people show their emotions, it is not to get a reaction. It is more then ever, a more pure communication, dropping the veil of ego, or any desired public persona, & revealing ones true self, flaws and all.
A friend & I were just talking about art & music careers & he mentioned a possible distinction between a performer & an artist, being that a performer may be somewhat more likely to acknowledge the commercial aspects of his art & may be producing or presenting it with that in mind. Creating what sells, with undeniable talent in many cases, but aiming for commercial success. The artist may be creating only to extract the most pure form of communication from the depths or the ethers or wherever that comes from... not for some pre-determined reaction, such as commercial success.
Anyway, the obvious parallel I see is based on my belief that John is not a drama seeking, ego driven performer looking for a specific response. It is my perception that he has emotions & reactions to his current circumstances that have been influenced by his surroundings. Holding those emotions & reactions inside is not always appropriate for self preservation. Blowing off steam is not always appropriate for general public consumption, but among friends & family, it is usually acceptable to be honest, even when it is not pleasant, entertaining or otherwise valuable to the observer.
In most preforming arts venues I'm familiar with, civil society may reward an artists pure expression with heartfelt applause... or if not so inclined... they may not. Booing, however is not a civilized response in my opinion.
posted
You are right, Doug. And maybe some people on here aren't used to trusting others with their own thoughts & feelings, therefore they cannot accept someone else doing so.
I would rather hear someone being transparent & real than pretending everything is "honky-dory".
-------------------- The Word in Signs Bobbie Rochow Jamestown, PA 16134
724-927-6471
thewordinsigns@alltel.net Posts: 3485 | From: Jamestown, PA 16134 | Registered: Oct 2002
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