posted
I'm thinking of trying a technique that might save a good customer of mine a lot of money, but I've never seen it written about before. This whole venture into digital prints is new to me, so if I'm about to make a huge mistake I sure would appreciate someone pulling me back from the edge!
It goes like this: full size digital prints for application on MDO; I want to use prefinished one side MDO and apply the print to the unfinished (but overlaid) side of the MDO. There are a whole bunch of these signs for use on construction sites by my customer (a construction company) so they are expected to get beat up and the life expectancy is not more than 2-3 years. I want to put the prints on the unfinished side so that the back side is presentable without me having to paint it and adding a ton of labor (and therefore increase the price to my customer).
What I'm worried about is the prints sticking to the unfinished MDO. Will they stay there? Am I setting myself up for a major headache and customer relations disaster? Does anyone have experience with this method of application? The service bureau producing the prints says it's OK, but I'm beginning to think that perhaps their assurance is not something I want to hang my reputation on.
Any guidance on this?
Thanks
-------------------- Brian Oliver Paxton Signs Fort Collins, CO paxton@peakpeak.com www.paxtonsignsofcolorado.com Posts: 237 | From: ft. collins, colorado,usa | Registered: Mar 2001
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I would do a test Brian. Personally, I don't think it will stick - but it might. If your customer needs "a whole bunch" of these, why not buy a flatbed and print it all on 10mm Coro? If you have a steady stream of these babys coming in it might pay the payments on a nice piece of equiptment rather than making the service bureau a chunk. Just a thought.
-------------------- Ricky Jackson Signs Now 614 Russell Parkway Warner Robins, GA (478) 923-7722 signpimp50@hotmail.com
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Issac Newton Posts: 3528 | From: Warner Robins, GA | Registered: Oct 2004
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You're gonna get moisture behind that print if it's unfinished. I'd apply on the finished side and roller some paint on the back AND SIDES to protect it from moisture and aesthetics. It'd be less labor to apply the print to 0.25" Alumalite or Econolite. More lightweight to install, too. And if it's gonna get thrown around alot, you're gonna want to apply a good overlaminate to the surface of the print to protect it. I know I'm drivin' up the price here, but your customer's gonna appreciate a more durable sign.
The MDO you are describing is good 2 sides but not finished both sides. If it's prime/bare or bare/bare and you are adhering the print to the bare side, make sure to clean it really good with a clean dry dust rag. Don't use a tack rag. You can do an adhesion test that will give you a pretty good idea of the holding power. If you can wrap the edges or use edge trim, that would be advisable. The cost of enamel/bare or enamel/prime is not that much more than bare/bare and would give you a glossier surface to which to adhere the print.
-------------------- Laurie Corl Same Day Signs 5327 Jacuzzi St. unit 2D Richmond, California 94803 Posts: 30 | From: Richmond, California | Registered: Dec 2004
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Im pretty sure its not gonna stick very well. Ive experimented with vinyl before just to see if it would, and the adhesion wasnt good. Id go the little bit extra and put on a coat of enamel and itll stick great.
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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The MDO you are describing is good 2 sides but not finished both sides. If it's prime/bare or bare/bare and you are adhering the print to the bare side, make sure to clean it really good with a clean dry dust rag. Don't use a tack rag. You can do an adhesion test that will give you a pretty good idea of the holding power. If you can wrap the edges or use edge trim, that would be advisable. The cost of enamel/bare or enamel/prime is not that much more than bare/bare and would give you a glossier surface to which to adhere the print.
-------------------- Laurie Corl Same Day Signs 5327 Jacuzzi St. unit 2D Richmond, California 94803 Posts: 30 | From: Richmond, California | Registered: Dec 2004
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Depends on the MDO from my experience. I've got signs marking cattle chutes that had to be red, and had to be ready an hour after the order was placed. I covered the 24" x 24" pieces of unpainted MDO with red vinyl, lettered on top of that and delivered them. I painted the unfinished edges on site, after they were installed.
They've been up almost 8 years.
John's right, though. It's really not that much extra work to coat it out with enamel and not have to worry about it.
-------------------- Pat Whatley Montgomery, AL (334) 262-7446 office (334) 324-8465 cell Posts: 1306 | From: Wetumpka, AL USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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The problem with painting them out is that there are 44 signs altogether, ranging in size from 4'x4' to 4'x 10'. So the time to handle and paint all of these is really going to add up, adding a ton of labor and money to the overall project as I mentioned. The customer doesn't want to pay any more than necessary, of course, and I was hoping this method was going to work for their purposes.
-------------------- Brian Oliver Paxton Signs Fort Collins, CO paxton@peakpeak.com www.paxtonsignsofcolorado.com Posts: 237 | From: ft. collins, colorado,usa | Registered: Mar 2001
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Hiya Brian, This has been discussed before. Try a search. It's hit or miss and will depend on the quality of your MDO. I've seen finished MDO swell and fail within a year, but I also have some that have been up for 15 years (not with digital prints though). IMHO, your most affordable solution would be to outsource the job to someone with a flatbed printer and just print on a prefinished substrate like Dibond. Another option I would entertain is getting prepainted MDO, and just slap the prints on and finish the edges with edge cap.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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It's really not YOUR problem that the customer doesn't want to pay what the job costs to produce.
It costs what it costs, period. if they don't want to pay, they can find someone else to beat down. I mean, it sounds like a whole lot of hoops to jump through trying to find the cheapest way.
Or maybe cutting 44 different sized MDO signs by hand isn't the most efficient way to do it.
I bet you could find someone with a shear or even CNC equipment that could buzz all those panels from aluminum, dibond, whatever in 10th the time and at less cost than it would take you to do it with MDO.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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Problem with the lighter substrates is, you still need a sturdy backing to attach these lightweights to. Not really saving much that way. I'd say paint the MDO and decal it.
posted
It will work but I give the mdo a light shot of spray adhesive just to make sure it'll stick. I did just that a couple weeks ago, though my project wasn't outdoors. Have you considered using pre-primed MDO? It comes primed 1 or both sides. Go for the 2 sided and leave the back alone.
MY 2˘
G
-------------------- Gerald Lauzé FeatureWorx Creative Fabrication 206-19148 27th ave Surrey BC Posts: 264 | From: Cloverdale ( Surrey ) BC | Registered: Mar 2006
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Our supplier carries prepainted MDO (1/2"). To avoid painting the edges, oversize the prints a little so that you can wrap the edges. The prepainted MDO is more expensive, but much cheaper than your labor.
-------------------- Tim Whitcher Adrian, MI Posts: 1546 | From: Adrian, MI | Registered: Mar 1999
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I'm with Ricky on this one, we use 10mm coro for construction all the time... stands up well, is rigid enough to mount with minimal or no framing, easy for the customer to handle, quick to use and requires absolutely no prep.
-------------------- Mike O'Neill
It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value. - Arthur C. Clarke
As far as using coro goes, the customer spec'd plywood. So that won't work.
Buy a flatbed printer for this one job? I know that I can use it down the road for more or this kind of work, but I haven't the room or the bux for that option.
Drawing a hard line in the sand regarding the price is bound to backfire. This is a customer I've had for 15+ years, and I want to keep them happy.
Man, I really thought I was onto something, but the more info I get, the less confident I am about this method.
I'm gonna have to talk with the customer some more about the options.
-------------------- Brian Oliver Paxton Signs Fort Collins, CO paxton@peakpeak.com www.paxtonsignsofcolorado.com Posts: 237 | From: ft. collins, colorado,usa | Registered: Mar 2001
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I think what some of your suggestions are missing is that on construction sites...the signs and graphics are specified by the architect.
Most times they will pull up a 'boilerplate' sign specification and make the appropriate changes to fit their particular project. that can bring up a few problems. Such as asking since they specified the font and size of the text, that6'X10' sign will have to be a 12'X10' in order to fit all the names and graphics that are specified.
-OR-
Why must that 4'X4' "hard hats required" sign be made of 1" marine grade plywood with 6"X6" cross braced posts?
If this project requires 44 signs in the 4'X4' to 4'X10' range, it is a good sized constuction project. The signs and graphics are really peanuts in the overall budget! If the contractor is worried abot the cost of the signs... think long and hard about wherether you want this job! Sounds like he is losing his ass on this job, and you might not get paid!
-------------------- Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA
(714) 521-4810
si.allen on Skype
siallen@dslextreme.com
"SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"
Never mess with your profile while in a drunken stupor!!!
Brushasaurus on Chat Posts: 8827 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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"Most times they will pull up a 'boilerplate' sign ...since they specified the font and size of the text, that6'X10' sign will have to be a 12'X10' in order to fit all the names and graphics" -------------- Si is right, again. At this time, you could run into a stalemate, where nobody knows what to do, except start another round of phone-tag. Makes a job fascinating as all get-out.
-------------------- Bruce Williams Lexington KY Posts: 945 | From: Lexington, KY, USA | Registered: Mar 1999
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