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If you don't believe in global climate change, then fine-- click on a different subject. this topic is for people who are concerned and to brainstorm and share some ideas about what we can do as sign makers to create and provide "green" signs for our customers. If nothing else, it will probably become a growing market niche, the way organic foods are for the grocery industry.
So, who's been experimenting with products?
There are few perfect solutions, but I'm looking at "better" solutions.
For myself, I'm relying more on paint and digital prints than on cut vinyls. (yes, printing on vinyl is still using vinyl, but there seems to be less waste.)
I've also started moving back to MDO (even tho the quality is sukky) and away from Sintra. I'd rather have the plywood dust (and the glue and crap in plywood) to deal with than the PVC dust. Plus, plywood is made from a renewable resource.
-------------------- :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: Oakland, CA :: :: still a beginner :: :: Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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When I started my biz 7 yrs ago I was appalled at all the waste I was producing. I try to recycle and keep using the transfer tape as much as possible until it won't hold anymore. Last but not least, I save way to many scraps (some get used others after collecting 40 pounds of dust get tossed).
I'm hoping to get an eco-sol printer so I can cut down on the materials I need in house as a first step but baring that I still sub out prints from larger places and thats good too!
-------------------- Brian Diver PDQ Signs Everett, Wa
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and don't forget to change all your lighting from incandescent to LED or florescent. This will not only save you money but energy also and outlast any incandescent bulb.
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6720 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Yeah Joey! I think we have about 3 regular bulbs in the entire house and garage the rest are florescents. We also buy the green or pay extra for the green energy from our public utilities.
Rick about those hemp fabric banners...
-------------------- Brian Diver PDQ Signs Everett, Wa
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Green is a challenge but it's worth a try. Here are a few things that I do that can make a small difference. 1) Try not to put a lot of water-based or bourne water down the drain. Try to contain the worst parts in a bucket and let the sludge settle and dry out. Kent Smith says that terrible bi-products are created by latex when it breaks down in the waste stream, such nasties as buetyl residues can be formed. 2) Sometime being lazy is green. Don't wash out rolling pans. Just paint them out and let them dry, no matter what type of paint it is. I have one so heavy that it can't go out in the field with me, but it still works. I'll just have to saw it in half one day to count the rings. 3) Bag rollers when possible instead of cleaning them out every time. I know it's lazy but it does reduce waste from cleaning. Gary Anderson is big on this strategy and has rollers around in many colors, of course it works better with water paints. 4) Think about cedar, or Extira? over foam or pvc. 5)Paint the big stuff y'all. Way less waste.
-------------------- Steve Vigeant Berkeley Signs Oakland, CA. Posts: 55 | From: Oakland, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I run my shop out of my home for now, but, that may change; I do have flourescent and LED here, When I was learning the sign biz back in the early 80's, and the plotters just came out; we still painted a lot of course too, but my boss always reused the appl. tape, so I try to do that as much as possible.
There are a lot of banners that I encourage a design to be used year after year and give the customer extra numbers to change the date, and I don't wash out my pans either!
My car is small, but, I'm not against large vehicles if you really need them for your business, and use it as much as you can to be productive and have fun; just try to plan trips out so we're not running around in circles.
I offer my customers a break for bringing back mdo to be repainted if at all possible. Since I haven't as much sign work in the past four years that I used to, I'm going to step it up. From what the businesses tell me, they haven't heard of any sign shop asking to recycle wood, even if it's in good shape, so I guess this is one place I'll improve on; there's got to be some good sign substrate out there in someone's store room still in good shape.
Really, I miss the lead performance in the paint, but, when I think about it, it's better not to have that stuff anyway, when there are alternatives. And as the demand goes up, supply prices will may be competitive with other supply prices and so forth; you know how that goes.
Last, for now, I need to step it up on the disposal of paints, etc. I store stuff until we get the safe disposal offerings by the city and try to bring all of that there. Trying to refurbish my existing computers does help since I don't want to see them over in landfills shipped around the world.
Thanks for the suggestions. (I'm taking environmental science classes in school), and to see the scientific data from the universities really makes my graph-ic sense wake up!
Oh, about the cedar? How do your prices compare?. Cedar was equally as popular with a sign shop I used to work with in Ohio, and that was back in the early 90's when the other substrates and PVC foam just started taking over to save the redwood trees. It made some beautiful signs, but, this shop only used wood, for a long time. I think they were holding out for a while on that.
I've noticed all these posts so far are from California and the west coast. I bet you hear about solutions a lot out there; the best thing we can do is spread the word about solutions, right?
[ March 07, 2007, 07:25 AM: Message edited by: Deb Fowler ]
-------------------- Deb Fowler
"It's kind of fun to do the impossible - Walt Disney (1901-1966) Posts: 5373 | From: Loves Park, Illinois | Registered: Aug 1999
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Rick -- what kind of hemp fabric are you using for banners? (i've been looking for a place that would sew banners from cotton or anything other than vinyl). Do you prime it first?
Deb -- every time i've tried to repaint a sign it seemed to be more labor involved than in just starting with a fresh sheet of MDO, but maybe i need to try to come up with a different method. Something like a marble or a rag-finish (or any "decorative finish" for the background) might help mask the old lettering and the imperfections involoved with a re-used sign. (The problem with a re-used sign is that the customer usually expects it to cost less)
-------------------- :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: Oakland, CA :: :: still a beginner :: :: Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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Scooter, I do realize that the texture would be a hassle to smooth. I guess you could lightly take a sander and knock some of it off.
I can see they'd want it cheaper and figure if you can charismatically convince them about "green" it may work. I know you only save about 50 or 60 bucks av. on mdo, and then there's all that extra work. Maybe it will smooth down?
Perhaps you could let them know you will be using an extra prep (since you have to sand) and that may be a bonus to bind the paint. I did this a few years back when the paint store sold me some enamel that would not dry. I wiped it off but couldn't get it all, and then sanded. When I got a dry surface, I repainted and those park signs lasted now almost 13 years in exposed fields with just a little fading on the letters, but not the background. The letters were painted with one shot. Of course I never bought anything but fast drying enamel after that episode. Still, I was delighted about my accidental discovery.
The transfer tape was paper, and sometimes if it is high tack, it can be set aside on a file cabinet in between applications. Sometimes, I tape, remove and go to the next set of letters without sticking on to anything else between. Just maybe can use about two or three times. Just try it and see how it works for you.
[ March 08, 2007, 02:42 AM: Message edited by: Deb Fowler ]
-------------------- Deb Fowler
"It's kind of fun to do the impossible - Walt Disney (1901-1966) Posts: 5373 | From: Loves Park, Illinois | Registered: Aug 1999
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Rick may have been teasing about buying hemp fabric for banners; it's very pricey. But there is a LOT to be said for hemp. I know I'm probably going to get some hate mail over this but if people will pull their head out of their butts and look at the bare nekkid facts, you'll see that hemp really can help save the planet. Here's a link: http://www.thehia.org/hempfacts.htm
[ March 08, 2007, 12:28 PM: Message edited by: Ricky Jackson ]
-------------------- Ricky Jackson Signs Now 614 Russell Parkway Warner Robins, GA (478) 923-7722 signpimp50@hotmail.com
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Issac Newton Posts: 3528 | From: Warner Robins, GA | Registered: Oct 2004
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Hiya Scooter, Being environmentally conscious isn't always about the money. It's about using good judgement too. Sure, at times it may be more cost effective to use a new substrate, but what does that do for the environment? Anyway, here are some steps I've taken to be an "environmentally responsible" business. 1. Reuse and recycle: Almost everything gets used more than once here, whether it's paper for notes and packing material or scrap vinyl for wire markings or whatever. If I think I can use it again, I'll try to hold on to it. 2. I don't ask for printed catalogs from my vendors any more. If it's available, I would prefer to visit their web site, download a PDF or have them send me a CD. The catalogs I do have get recycled whenever possible. 3. I try to keep travel to a minimum. I schedule multiple errands, sales calls, installations or whatever on the same day and try to route them accordingly. 4. I inform my clients that standard turn around is 2 weeks. This allows me to schedule jobs to minimize supplier deliveries, waste and clean up time. Since I'm still new, this is quite challenging because I'm not that busy. However, since I practice this now, it will be a lot easier to continue when things pick up. 5. I also prefer to buy from local manufacturers. When the quality of the product is equal, I don't mind paying a little more for the local product. 6. I do 90% of bookkeeping - quoting, invoicing etc. - electronically. Whenever I can, I email quotes and invoices and pay my bills online. In the last month I've used one stamp for the business. 7. I've kept the thermostat down when I'm working. Wearing a sweater and keeping the shop at 65° in the winter hasn't affected me or my projects yet. In the summer, it's nice and cool in the basement, so there's no need for AC. 8. I'm working on redesigning my web site and electronic media to be environmentally friendly too. When viewed on a monitor, darker colors require less energy. Although these are positive steps, I've got a long way to go. But, as the saying goes, every little bit helps
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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Just a caution for anybody reading this far -- you probably do NOT want to sand down any signs painted more than a year or two ago, unless you know what was in the paint. 1-shot enamels (and other sign paints) used to have lead in them. Sanding can release the lead (toxic) and you could be breathing it in or adding lead contaminated dust to your environment.
Prime and paint OVER the old surface may the safer way (no sanding). That's why I was thinking that giving the new background a texture or effect might help hide the old sign.
-------------------- :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: Oakland, CA :: :: still a beginner :: :: Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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Steve puts his rollers in plastic bags and re-uses them. I roll mine up in plastic wrap (cling film, saran wrap). An 8" piece will handle most of my small/medium rollers. I've got a dense-foam roller i use for my primer, and i've been re-using the same roller for two months. I never wash it -- just sprinkle a little water on it, wrap it, and write "primer" on the wrapper with a marker. its ready to go whenever i need it.
I have about 8 rollers going right now, in different colors. if i'm changing from light blue to reflex blue i'll roll out the old color on the back of the sign first, then add in the new color.
the dense-foam rollers are about $2-$4 each, so being able to re-use them is a significant savings. i'm also saving myself the time of not having to wash them out.
(this trick only works with water-based paints. the oil-based ones harden up after about 6 hours).
-------------------- :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: Oakland, CA :: :: still a beginner :: :: Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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