posted February 28, 2007 02:02 PM
We talked about the Demise of handlettering, but how many are happy with leaving it behind and going thw way of the computer? I know that I do miss it. I explained that on the other post. But what I don't miss is the Headaches I got every single day when I was Handlettering, how healthy is it? I know that the paints are not as dangerous as they were, but the turps and thinners that must be used are still not good on our systems. How many times I'd spill one shot on my hands, then grab a rag, soak it in thinners, wipe my hand, and we all know if we can put medication in our body through a dry patch, then what in the hell are we soaking our bodies with thinners for?
Just putting a different spin on it for disscussion.
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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posted February 28, 2007 02:20 PM
Back when I first started in this business I was doing all hand lettering. Getting up in the dark of night to letter a freight truck in a cold dark shop isn't something I miss one bit.
Slinging paint was never one of my favorite jobs, especially on the second side of a truck. The first door was fun... the second drudgery.
It didn't take long for me to start specializing in the type of work I chose to do... give me the fun stuff and I'll pass on the rest.
But then again I couldn't do vinyl either and stay remotely happy. Give me the far out challenging off the wall stuff to make me happy.
I'll make good money there too!
I love all the new substraits like Precision Board, thick texture primers, Magic Sculpt and other cool things. I'll weld my steel and sculpt my concrete too when the medium fits... I'll keep my MultiCam too to take the drudgery out of my work while it does the mundane, and hard stuff.
I want to have fun, have my cake and eat it too!
Embracing both the high terch and old ways in our shop which ever is easier and faster makes the most sense to me.
Havin' fun in Yarrow...
-grampa dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8738 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted February 28, 2007 02:31 PM
I love hand lettering, Im not very good and still learning. Thats all I do and I plan on sticking to it. I'm getting a plotter and I'm gonna do some vinyl when the job calls for it but I'm still gonna hand letter as long as I can. The only thing that I don't like about it is, like you said Neil, the way you have to soak your hands in thinner. Its not near as quick as doing a vinyl job but its how I started and I'm gonna stick to it.
Jamie
-------------------- Jamie Whitley 55 Calhoun St Reynolds, GA (478)951.2475 Posts: 51 | From: Reynolds, Georgia | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted February 28, 2007 03:00 PM
Tromp down to hardware store or Cosco and get yourself a pail of WYPALL. In the pail is a roll of towels with a citrus smell to it, you pull out one sheet and start wiping your hands, it removes all the paint. Stuff works great without all the mess of paste or soap and water. I use this all the time and one sheet is reusable at least twice.
As far as paint, I love it and so do my customers
edited to add this:
I could remember going in any sign shop and seeing the opened cans of paint, the sloppyness of caps not tightly covering the cans, the way signmen stored their paint and the complete disaster and disorder which they kept supposable organized. It was before then that I realized what a waste it would be for my life if I followed in their footsteps. To be organized and clean where-as one wouldn't have to be dirty in order to make money was my goal, to understand the formula one must understand the materials used and keep at a distance from crap with could ruin your health. but lets face it, there are other things more important which we need to destroy our health
posted February 28, 2007 03:05 PM
You can only imagine how much I miss my right shoulder (trapezius muscle) not being in spasm 24/7. It felt like an ice pick was in it - constantly. It's funny how we remember "the good old days" fondly. I do miss the sweet smell of turps (or Edge!), the adoration of customers when they picked up their job, and the satisfaction from having done it by hand. But I barely made enough money at it to make a meager living, no insurance, no savings, no retirement. I have absolutely no regrets.
-------------------- Ricky Jackson Signs Now 614 Russell Parkway Warner Robins, GA (478) 923-7722 signpimp50@hotmail.com
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Issac Newton Posts: 3528 | From: Warner Robins, GA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted February 28, 2007 04:32 PM
Just about the only hand lettering I do these days is at Letterhead gatherings, along with an odd job here and there. No one loved to hand letter any more than me and the challenge of learning it is still fresh in my memory. Whenever I relate the feelings of lettering show cards and vehicles most people look at me rather strangely. Those were very special times.
But, I don't miss them all that much. Or the cramps in my back and legs. Or the numbness in my fingers and shoulder. It was a good time and I would not have missed it for the world, but those times are past and so we move on to some new challenges.
It was fun to "show off" to customers and passers-by who appreciated something being done by hand and the uniqueness of what you were doing...and that very few could do it well. I'm not sure that the same reaction would be forthcoming today.
Next week I'll be at Fred's and push a brush around for a few days. It will bring back good memories and some old timers will swap lies about the good old days...but today is still exciting enough for me.
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted February 28, 2007 05:24 PM
I got back into the game with a plotter. I say "back" because the current status of my business relates to what I was doing all through my childhood and early adulthood. Drawing was not easy for me. It is still a challenge to render to my own satisfaction. Through the 1980's I made more money than I knew what to do with painting hearts & rainbows on T-shirts. I had a blast. There was the occasional dog portrait or hot rod rendering that provided the challenge. I used 1S black because of the richness of the color that fabric paint could not match. You can imagine what my nose looked like at the end of a day. We didn't use masks. By chance, my father bought a plotter to augment his failing business which I eventually bought. I sucked at layout, at first. It took me too long to develop a design worth executing and I thought I would fail. I couldn't get the work out fast enough to take any money home at the end of the month. I made changes. One of them was to get some signfoam samples and some paint. I never looked back. I may never be a sign maker that a new generation will look to for advise or inspiration. I can accept that. I do want to learn as much as I can from all of you while I can. I am happier now than those lost years managing businesses for others. I challenge myself every day. I'm doing that now with the help of Mr. Snow. I will stripe, letter and carve. I also have numbness but for me it comes from the position of my arm when holding a computer mouse. I'm 43 years old and don't know how much I can learn. I hope there are volumes. I posted a couple of days ago how I feel lucky to be where I am, doing what I am. I meant it. The art of signmaking will include toxic chemicals and ladders. It's my choice. It's my adventure
-------------------- Mike gatlinburg Sign Crafters Posts: 1051 | From: Gatlinburg, TN | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted February 28, 2007 05:51 PM
Mike, you can learn lots. I am 46 & I learning TONS of new things! I have only had my own shop for about 7 years, too. Never been happier, even when things are s-l-o-w!
-------------------- The Word in Signs Bobbie Rochow Jamestown, PA 16134
724-927-6471
thewordinsigns@alltel.net Posts: 3485 | From: Jamestown, PA 16134 | Registered: Oct 2002
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posted February 28, 2007 09:15 PM
Although I consider myself the "Paint mask Queen", I still hand stripe or letter with a brush quite a bit.
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3814 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted February 28, 2007 09:52 PM
If I can get the pic to post, I did this one by hand, all brush, even brushed the black background with a #12 and I hummed for all four days of it. Signs are a night time job for me, and oooo how I wish it were not that way.
After the guy seeing the design I put together on the computer, I asked him if he would be interested in it being hand painted rather then vinyl, you guys know the rest of the story from the previous post. It may be loud, it may be busy, but both myself and the new owner are darn proud of it. He is hoping his business will pick up enough to have me paint it on the side of his building..... I can do that!!
Lets see if the post worked, if it did not, someone please help me out.
-------------------- Sharing the WORD one sign at a time!! Joe Golden Signage 721 Oak ST, Madisonville KY, 42431 270-871-0454 Posts: 270 | From: Madisonville, Kentucky | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted February 28, 2007 09:54 PM
The only thing I used a paint mask for was the blue outline around the phone numbers on the bottom cause I was too chicken, or tired to free hand it, I wish I had though, I feel like I cheated the sign some, but that is just me and my own conviction.
-------------------- Sharing the WORD one sign at a time!! Joe Golden Signage 721 Oak ST, Madisonville KY, 42431 270-871-0454 Posts: 270 | From: Madisonville, Kentucky | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted March 01, 2007 08:50 AM
I have tp go with Dan on this one. I've always liked doing something different or extra for my customers; and am very hesitant to say "I can't do that", whether it's paint, vinyl or whatever. (By the way, anyone know where I can find a statue of a pig standing on its hind legs, about 5 feet tall?)
I'm 61, and have been exposed to all manner of chemicals, thinners, and paints for 30-some years. Yet, if I had it to do all over again, I would. I've enjoyed most of it, most of the time. The variety of work, and the types of materials I've had the opportunity to work with has been quite an adventure.
I still hand letter a good bit; and would do more, but for the time savings. I doubt the new paints are as bad as the old ones were. Then again, no one (that I know of) has published a comprehensive study on whether or not the vinyl poses any health hazards. I wouldn't be surprised if it did. Have you read any of the horror stories on PVC?
Anyway, I'm going to keep on doing what I'm doing for as long as I can hold a brush. It's been by far the most satisfying profession I've ever been involved in. And, I keep learning new stuff as I go along.....it's never too late to learn!
-------------------- Dale Feicke Grafix 714 East St. Mendenhall, MS 39114
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me." Posts: 2963 | From: Mendenhall, MS | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted March 01, 2007 09:00 AM
The last time I had my lead levels checked was when I was pregnant with Justis. At that time, I had been painting with Hi-Test 1-Shot for 10 years. Everything came back normal. I always did wear latex gloves when painting, as a precaution. I guess that since 1-S no longer has lead in it, it's safer, right? And how many people who worry about chemicals and painting still smoke cigarettes or drugs, and eat a kazillion donuts and Big Macs? Process Blue is my favorite 1-Shot scent. Love....Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted March 01, 2007 10:10 AM
I have never understood why anyone would wash their hands in thinner. Ycchh! I keep a big bottle of go-jo hand cleaner and use it often, and when I get paint on my hands I wipe it off and wash my hands with go-jo - I may still have a stain, depending how long its had to dry. I rarely get much on my hands while lettering; that happens more when I am straining or mixing colors. I also rarely use anything stronger than mineral spirits. My old boss used to hand-letter banners with vinyl screen inks, but I've never had that stuff in my shop. With more and more backgrounds being acrylics, theirs less enamel drying in the shop as it is.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted March 01, 2007 10:16 AM
All good Observations, has anyone here ever used the liquid Glove product?, you basically rub it into your hands and it gives an invisible barrier, I believe it's latex based, so all you have to do is wash it off with water at the end of the day.
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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posted March 01, 2007 10:25 AM
I've used that, and I hate it! It feels sticky and gritty, and made me feel like I was smothering. And there is still the problem of washing it off...and I do like Go-Jo (but Fast Orange smells better) Anybody remember those old powdered Boraxo dispensers? Love....Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted March 01, 2007 11:36 AM
...Dern paint always gets somewhere other then where it should! We've all had our share of catastrophies, and avoiding (or minimizing) messes is part of the fun of throwing paint around. I'm so obsessive that if I get ANY of it on my hands (or brush) I have to get it off immediately, before it spreads. I recommend baby oil for removing enamel from skin.
...Gettin' it onya is unavoidable, and exposure to any paint has hazards, even h2o based. Knowing what the chemical stuff we use IS, what it is for, what it does, and how to CONTROL it, is essential. Neal, If enamel paint is making you sick, you could have an extreme "over sensitivity" to it and may want to be a water based only sign maker. I still like lettering with enamel as much as ever, but I hate the paint. (Icky, smelly, messy...) Recently I bought some new MACK, water based quills and flats, and lettering signs with acrylic house paint is just as handy. And definately more benign, I can clean my brushes in the sink.
posted March 01, 2007 02:45 PM
I guess I am just lucky, always cleaned the paint off my hands with thinner and I am still here and still painting. The only big mistake was putting a rag with thinner in my back pocket. Talk about a pain in the ass.
-------------------- Bill Riedel Riedel Sign Co., Inc. 15 Warren Street Little Ferry, N.J. 07643 billsr@riedelsignco.com Posts: 2953 | From: Little Ferry, New Jersey, USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted March 01, 2007 03:15 PM
Geez Bill, isn't the thinner rag in the back pocket the old "new kid in the shop" trick.I still do a lot of hand lettering, but now I mostly use water based paints. The thing that gets me is how easy the art dept. can put outlines on every word, but has no ideal how much extra work and time it takes. I find the film industry still uses a lot of hand lettering, but you can see the writing on the wall( no pun intended Ha Ha!)where soon the machines will take over also. I must say I don't have as much passion when I'm lettering outside in sub zero weather.
![[I Don t Know]](graemlins/dunno.gif)
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I keep a big bottle of go-jo hand cleaner and use it often, and when I get paint on my hands I wipe it off and wash my hands with go-jo - I may still have a stain, depending how long its had to dry. I rarely get much on my hands while lettering; that happens more when I am straining or mixing colors. I also rarely use anything stronger than mineral spirits. My old boss used to hand-letter banners with vinyl screen inks, but I've never had that stuff in my shop. With more and more backgrounds being acrylics, theirs less enamel drying in the shop as it is.
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