posted
Anyone else in an area kinda like mine, where while the local economy is slowly growing, the cost of houses has gone completely insane because of an influx of outside investors speculating (or people in California cashing in their equity and relocating) thus driving the purchase prices way beyond what the average citizen can afford?
I saw this article in the online version of today's newspaper. I think it's ironic how they talk about tax breaks to help "lower income people", who by the way are actually *average* income for this area ($30,000 is average) get into affordable housing, when the housing market is artificially inflated to the extreme in the first place.
Housing that is affordable needed
BY DAVID BELL Tuesday, February 6, 2007 10:24 PM MST
KINGMAN - To afford a median-priced home in Lake Havasu City, a worker must earn a minimum of $39.17 an hour or just over $81,000 a year.
That's one of the findings from a study on affordable housing in Mohave County presented to the county Board of Supervisors.
“Police, teachers, firefighters and nurses are being priced out,” said consultant Rich Crystal of Crystal and Co. of Scottsdale.
The study found the areas with the highest need for affordable housing are the three major cities in the county along with a five-mile radius outside those cities.
The median home price in Lake Havasu City was $272,000 as of November 2006 according to the Havasu Real Estate Report. In Bullhead City, it was $214,000 and $162,200 in Kingman.
Meanwhile police officers in those cities are averaging pay equal to $19.92 an hour ($41,400 per year), nurses $17.74 an hour ($36,900 per year), teachers $15.16 an hour ($31,500 per year) and firefighters $14.78 an hour ($30,700 per year), the study said.
According to Crystal, housing should consume no more than 28 percent of income but a 2006 Western Arizona Council of Governments survey found 58.4 percent of Mohave County residents are using more than 30 percent of their income to cover housing costs.
The study also shows the northern area of the county bordering Mesquite, Nev., with a disportationate amount of substandard housing as does Mohave Valley, Golden Valley, Dolan Springs and Desert Hills. In total, 35 percent of the homes in Mohave County are in some state of disrepair.
While no action came from the report, there are recommendations including measures to generate revenues to support housing subsidies.
“Local governments can fund through a variety of sources such as fees on deeds recorded and building permits, surcharges on escrows and code enforcement revenues,” Crystal said.
“The state Department of Housing requires that the county designate areas for affordable housing and staff will be coming back to the board of supervisors to develop the necessary criteria,” said County manager Ron Walker.
In 2005, the board of supervisors voted to endorse a pair of affordable housing projects in the county, Katherine Heights Villas in Mohave Valley and Tuscan Hills Village in Desert Hills.
Supervisor Tom Sockwell, R-Dist. 2, said the Katherine Heights Villas project is proceeding but developers have halted work on Tuscan Hills Village.
Co-developer Don Holbrook said escalating costs for construction materials following Hurricane Katrina made the project unprofitable.
“Our project costs exceeded the tax credits and we turned the original awards back. We still have a tax credit property but we have to re-apply,” Holbrook said.
Supervisor Buster Johnson, R-Dist. 3, who voted against the Tuscan Hills Village project, said he's not sold on the idea of tax credits as a solution to the housing problem.
“Those tax credits do not always go to housing that is 100 percent for low income residents. And some of the projects I've seen have higher rents than the apartment units already on the market,” Johnson said.
A recommendation Crystal brought forward is a stimulation of affordable housing development through a re-working of land use regulations, a move Holbrook endorses.
“Especially in Lake Havasu City, there is a fight against affordable housing developers through restrictive zoning. No one can make a profit,” Holbrook said.
Susie Parel-Duranceau, Community and Economic Development Director for Mohave County, said her department will analyze the study and come back before the board with recommended action.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
Same thing here plus the insurance has doubled because of the hurricanes and the property taxes have doubled as well.
With the tornados that just went through, I'm sure insurance will go up even higher. I would love to move but there is no way I can afford to go anywhere.
I don't know how anyone can move to Florida. The pay sucks and everything cost a fortune. I believe our average housing is about the same as you posted for Lake Havasu City.
Totally nuts. Let's go send more money to Iraq while we struggle to live here. (Sorry, didn't mean to go political, but it's how I feel!)
[ February 07, 2007, 04:57 PM: Message edited by: Amy Brown ]
-------------------- Amy Brown Life Skills 101 Private Address Posts: 3502 | From: Lake Helen, FL, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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The housing price versus wage disperity of which you speak is totally out of line. Surely it means your average home owners must be dual income families. Even then it must be tough.
We are enjoying the opposite here in Saskatchewan Canada. We are getting an influx of people coming here to retire after selling houses much like you describe in price, and coming here where they can get a nice home for 100,000, and a really nice home for 150,000 (at least in our region).
That with the low cost of living and taxes is making Saskatchewan a very attractive place to work from or retire too...
While in Calgary alberta, my retired uncle is having trouble coming up with property taxes because his home and lot is worth an insane amount of money!
[ February 07, 2007, 05:00 PM: Message edited by: Ivan Allan ]
-------------------- Ivan Allan Eye Signs SK Canada
"One's first step in wisdom is to question everything" Posts: 102 | From: Saskatchewan, Canada | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
$272,000 for an average house? That wouldn't even buy a shack here. I have just an average house that is 54 years old, and the going price in my neighborhood is $565,000.
-------------------- Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA
(714) 521-4810
si.allen on Skype
siallen@dslextreme.com
"SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"
Never mess with your profile while in a drunken stupor!!!
Brushasaurus on Chat Posts: 8831 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I was travelling around my area today with a friend, just driving and asked my friend why the land is so expensive yet the income is so low for most persons. It seems like all the blame gets put on so called Californians these days because not only do they move to Arizona but also move here to southern Oregon which was rated as one of the top three places to retire in, in the world. Well with all what he had to say it still left me puzzled not because this county is considered the 2nd richest county in Oregon but also its rated 2nd as the poorest which puzzles me even more and I don't believe that true Californians leave California. They may be Californians but not real ones.
Finding a home here is quite easy if you have the bucks but only a few years back you could have found a home with five acres for around a hundred g's. and yet still had a problem making any decent amount of money. Nows its tripled and quadrubled and still have a problem making any money. One of the reasons I tell persons I'm retired is so I don't have to listen to them whine when I give them a price. I'd rather just do my dealership account which I've had for ten years and travel down to NorCal and work with a friend.
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
posted
its totally like that where i live too, although the market has cooled off a tad in the last year. still you can't buy much for under 250K....maybe a decent condo or house that needs work.
the lot abutting us just sold for 250k for 3 acres...i'm sure there will be a million plus $ house on it before its done. don't bother me none...makes our property worth more.
-------------------- Karyn Bush Simply Not Ordinary, LLC Bartlett, NH 603-383-9955 www.snosigns.com info@snosigns.com Posts: 3516 | From: Bartlett, NH USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
I'm from Southern California, now residing in Prescott, Arizona. The only other place I've lived is Southern Oregon for a couple years back in the 80's. Back in the 90's, back in California, I worked my but off painting signs and put a sizable down payment on a $160,000, 3 bedroom tract house in Cardiff by the Sea, nothing fancy. By 2005 I was tired of the rat race, ready for a new adventure. I visited friends in Prescott, where I had been many times and always liked it. The house in Cardiff was now worth $700,000, but not to me. I think the people who bought it from me are insane, but that's their business. I paid $187,000 cash for a house near Prescott and have plenty of money to live on, and the guy that sold it to me is happy. Did I make the homes in Prescott go up in value? I don't know, but my neighbors seem happy about it (maybe they think I'm insane). I hire local contractors and pay them well, shop, eat out a lot and support the local economy. I still love doing sign work but I have not done much lately because I will only do the jobs that have no hassles involved. I did take out a small ad in the Yellow pages just because I'm not known here and would like a few jobs now and then, but have no intention of doing it full time. I'm pursuing other related interests and enjoying life. What about the people who've been priced out of the market? Back in '95 I was told I couldn't buy a house but I did it anyway. I don't think I could buy that house back but I could probably afford one in most parts of the country if I'm willing to work. I'm no expert on economics but supply and demand seem to be what's happening here. I wonder what's going to happen to this housing market, but I believe, just as I was told, If you can afford to rent, and live within your means, know how to save, don't carry credit card debt, you can still buy a house. Just my story.
-------------------- Chuck Peterson Designs San Diego, CA Posts: 1052 | From: San Diego, CA USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I would like to add this: when I hear these reports that only a few percentage of the population can afford an average cost home, thats an average cost home. They can still buy a home in the lower cost range. Statistics can be misleading.
-------------------- Chuck Peterson Designs San Diego, CA Posts: 1052 | From: San Diego, CA USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Same thing is going on here. When Glenda and I moved Back from Nebraska 3 1/2 Years ago we bought a 100 year old Fixer upper for $70k. and boy was it a fixer. I'm not even half done yet with the remodel and I just had it re-appraised Thinking about a refi and it came in at $230. The same thing for the shop we bought in Sept. Appraisal was $330 for the unoccupied building and we gave $260. Just recieved from bank last week a quick walk by appraisal for an Occupied income producing Building came in at $575 to $600. (I am definitely not complaining though)
That is just insane especially since a majority of the income in Canon is generated from Dept. of Corrections. Average income $38 to $60 for long timers.
On Average a starter home In Canon City is between $190-$220 and in the new planned development areas the starting around $300. (And they still complain about my lot Sign Prices.)
posted
Hiya Mike, This is nothing new. Check this out... http://www.hud.gov/offices/hsg/sfh/reo/goodn/gnndabot.cfm The theory behind it is similar to what's been done in the past when companies hired cheap labor and put the employees up in company owned housing. However, now that the real estate market has cooled, home pricing is starting to come down. There are a lot of real estate speculators who took out second mortgages and interest only loans to buy into the real estate frenzy. But now that its a buyers market, many of these people are stuck holding on to property that they can't afford to pay for. Because interest rate hikes and the slowing economy, some are speculating that nearly 25% of the real estate in some markets (California, Nevada, florida) will be in forelcosure within the next year. Check out these links... http://realestate.msn.com/buying/Article2.aspx?cp-documentid=1349808 http://realestate.msn.com/buying/Article_busweek.aspx?cp-documentid=1097574
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
We watch a lot of HGTV. A lot of what I see is total disbelief, a house that might bring $60,000 around here, sells for $500,000 in other places. CRAZY! I'm glad to see Chuck's post on here as that's what I'm always thinking these people should do...but no, they sell and go buy a house for $900,000
As far as around here, home prices are pretty reasonable. The house next door recently sold for $110,000. It's probably 1200-1300 sq ft, 3 bedroom, two bath, two car garage, nice stable neighborhood.
$272,000 here would be mighty nice by my standards.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
Last June my Husband and I bought an 1800 sq ft. house on 1 are. House is beautifully landscaped, fully fenced,large 30' x 6' manmade pond, for $320,000.00. Home prices did go up rapidly up here the last 2 years, but they seemed to have leveled off. Although, they are not going down.
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3820 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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Got my house for $30 grand less (about 80 bux a ft) than it was first offered and appraised. Some new housing was still under momentum but those developments are not doing much. The cost is too high for the market now.
Even still my house is not half the house I had in Louisiana.. There housing is/was going for around $100 bux a foot for nicer homes.
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
I thank my lucky stars that I bought my home for 70,000., put a large down payment down on it (about a third) and have since paid off the mortgage.
It's a small cozy 3bed/2bath bungalow home, just over 1400 sf, on two lots of land. It's now worth 400,000.00 in today's market down here.
I'm thrilled that I bought when I did, and plan to stay put for a good long while. Moving to another home that is even comparable to mine would mean paying a property tax payment that would exceed what my total mortgage payment (w/ ins. and taxes included) used to be.
Since there is a 3% cap on how much the property tax of my current home can go up annually for me, the best financial move for me, is no move.
Fortunately, I love my home and along with my surroundings.
~nettie
-------------------- "When Love and Skill Work Together ... Expect a Masterpiece"
I can't blame Californians, at least those in SoCal, for cashing in their equity and moving out. I would do the same thing, Cali is a bit overcrowded for my tastes. I know a lot of people that moved here from Cali that had to move back because even with the cash they got from selling their house, it wasn't enough to sustain them with the lower incomes available here. I think the main driving force behind the price jumps were developers and investors buying homes on speculation, with no intention of ever living here, just wanting to flip the property, which up until about a year ago they could do very easily as everything was selling as quickly as it hit the market. Now everything is just sitting stagnant, some prices are dropping a little. Like it's been said, the market will always correct itself.
My situation is pretty good. I can't afford to buy a place here, at least not as a single income purchase, but I'm not too worried about that. I'm renting a home that was $70,000 7 years ago and my rent still reflects that price. Gotta love long leases because this place is now appraised (overinflated IMHO) at over $200K. 2 bed 2 bath house right at 1000sq ft.
My plan is to build a small (less than 1,000 sqft, maybe 600-800) strawbale home (straw and natural building products are dirt cheap - literally) and workshop on property that I own free and clear, and live off the grid. Worst case scenario, the rental lease doesn't get renewed and I end up moving to the property earlier than expected, and live in the Airstream trailer parked out there, which has solar power, dumps into a new septic system and feeds off water tanks already in place.. and actually have a decrease in expenses because of it.
I've gotten hooked on this town though, it's so convenient I have a hard time making that break and heading out into the open desert.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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