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For the plane project at Mall of America we've decided to have it 'tow' a 50 x 4' foot long banner as the sign which will be seen from the lower levels of the mall as well as from the upper level where the golf is located.
Suspending the plane and banner is relatively easy and has been fully engineered to make it safe and secure. In fact that's the easy part.
The challenge is to actually letter the banner. I think I want to use OneShot paint although I'm not stuck on that idea. The banner material is a fiberglass/plastic composite material used to skin campers and tailers. Its nice and stiff but will curve nicely when we hang it in the mall. It rolls for shipping. Drilling holes and securing it should be relatively easy.
I think we'll use a projector to lay the copy out. All that is a snap. The tough part is that the lettering has a full blend and three heavy outlines... not hard for us to paint. The tricky part is doing the project without having it stick together to itself during storage and transit. Further complicating things is the fact that the banner is 50 feet long... my shop's biggest clear space less than 30'. The banner is double sided too and my shop is most often dusty and ALWAYS busy meaning I can't let things dry for days on end.
How would you go about it??
Challenged in Yarrow...
-grampa dan
[ February 02, 2007, 02:41 AM: Message edited by: Dan Sawatzky ]
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8738 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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Paper your wall to keep the back of the banner clean while you letter one side.You could fold it in half or sections,letter it and do the other side the same way using House of Kolor striping urethames because they dry so fast.If it is hung high at the Mall of America maybe you can cut it in half to work on it and sew it back together and maybe your copy will cover the seam enough to not notice it.I would concider using House of Kolor Striping urethanes though in place of the 1 Shot.A bit more expensive but there will be no issues about drying as it drys fast and will not allow the banner to stick to itself when rolled up.Just a thought! Ron.
[ February 02, 2007, 04:30 AM: Message edited by: Ron Gibbs ]
-------------------- Ron Gibbs Gibbs Airbrush www.gibbsairbrush.com 1381 St. Marys Cres. Burlington, Ontario, Canada, L7P1S1 Posts: 119 | From: Burlington,Ontario,Canada | Registered: May 2003
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Dust it with talc when it is dry and before shipping. The use of satin or flat colors will also help alleviate any "stickiness".
Either that or hire me to paint it on site. I like that idea.
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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I would worry about the 1-S cracking or tunneling. You have a double whammy of sorts with the banner being double-sided. I was always taught to roll substrates painted side out, but both sides are painted!
I wonder if using GripFlex (very stinky but very flexible) might be a better idea? Or maybe some sort of thinned silkscreen ink?
Could the thing be lettered onsite? The Bruce idea wouldn't be a bad one...man can that dude hand-letter. And you could pay him with three bean salad.
Love....Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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I think the screen ink is yer best bet. Airbrush the fade mask & roll outlines The ink sprays like a dream, Respirator required! and can be brushed or rolled when properly thinned.
Or, Bruce can eat A LOT of 3 bean salad!
-------------------- Bill Dirkes Cornhole Art LLC Bellevue, Ky. Goodnight Mrs. Calabash, wherever you are. Posts: 591 | From: Bellevue,Ky. US | Registered: Aug 1999
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Aw heck Dan, just use vinyl Another thought would be to dust it, as the others suggested, but also line it with butcher paper as you roll it up.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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As much as I hate to admit it, Pat, a digital print would probably be the best way to go. Love....Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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Do you have an outside wall to tack it on? There used to be this liquid latex that we'd roll on and after three coats of this stuff the pattern can be dusted on and then the letters peeled and the letters could be rolled on and it's kinda easy to achieve a nice roller blended effect with a few people working together. Then either peel the mask and do the outlines or cut the outlines one by one and use the mast for the outside edges.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6722 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Dan isn't lettering a real banner. It is rigid material to look like a banner. He said the material is used to skin campers and trailers!
I still think I could come down and letter it for you. I could work off some Famous Dave's...
Three bean salad is great but it pales when Fanmous Dave's is sooooooooo close...
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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How about the old fashioned Japan colors or the newer poster colors? They both dry fast and will not stick when rolled. Like Monte Jumper says, works for me.
-------------------- Bill Riedel Riedel Sign Co., Inc. 15 Warren Street Little Ferry, N.J. 07643 billsr@riedelsignco.com Posts: 2953 | From: Little Ferry, New Jersey, USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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Mr. Dan Sawhatifhesgotatoolchanger sir, I can't believe I'm getting old enough to say 'back in the day' but back in the day, projecting your layout in sections onto large banners was a daily thing. Mark the transparency ( to scale ) Letter banner a section at a time with one shot poster colors using lettering flats, like a big black 1 1/2" grumbacher- thinning out the poster colors quite a bit with turps or equal will get you good speed and workability- the colors dry dead flat which would go along with a 'period' look. They dry very fast, so you letter a section, go re-fill yer coffee cup and come back to a dry section of banner. Move, roll, whatever to expose the next section, line up the transparency and continue. Repeat. As far as rolling it up, we had very good luck with using'Freezer paper'as a release liner. You'll find it in the grocery store with the canning and baking materials ( at least down here in the south ). It's a heavy paper with one side slick. Now all this worked on the rolls of 'Tara cloth' and similar banner materials before the days of vinyl, so the compatability of the poster colors with your substrate would need to be checked out. If you weren't eleventy bazillion miles from here I'd drive over and help you with it. And, although it's not as much fun, the digital print does make sense.
-------------------- John Byrd Ball Ground, Georgia 770-735-6874 http://johnbyrddesign.com so happy I gotta sit on both my hands to keep from wavin' at everybody! Posts: 741 | From: Ball Ground, Georgia, USA | Registered: May 1999
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I'd sure stay away from One Shot enamels, they never seem to dry on any kind of plastic. Poster might work, but I think it would be subject to scratching off easily. HOK urethanes would be a much safer bet. Vinyl screen ink might also be an option. The latter two STICK like crazy. One thing for sure, I'd do a test first.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
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I use 9700 nazdar vinyl ink on styrene or vinyl banners thinning it with laquer thinner.It works great and does not stick.You probably will need to add small amounts of laquer thinner as you go to slow down jelling of the paint.It works for us ...It'll work for you!
-------------------- Bill Wood Bill Wood, Sign Artist 3628 Ogburn Ave., NE Winston-Salem, NC 27105-3752 336-682-5820 Posts: 397 | From: Winston-Salem, NC | Registered: May 2006
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Whatever you do, the corn starch trick works to prevent things from sticking together. I used to do that all the time with painted banners or panels stacked together.
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I'd mask it and spray Krylon Fusion Paints or Auto Air or HOC. The vinyl ink would work well, but I find it nasty stuff to work with, perhaps I have a sensitivity to it, but no matter how well ventilated and with respirators I still feel its effects for a while afterwards. In my mind the thinner the layer of paint the less likely it is to chip or peel. Plus I find it a lot faster to get a blend by spraying. I did a temp coroplast sign using Fusion paints about three years ago. I am amazed how bright the colours still are on the south face.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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Thanks for all the quick responses! I do appreciate it!
While vinyl or a digital print might work just fine this project is far too much fun to do that way. It BEGS to be hand painted.
This little sketch doesn't show the green fade in the letters but that could be sponged in a hurry... just for fun.
I'm thinking to ease my mind as far as shipping we may just have to paint this one by hand down on site or somewhere near to the mall. I'll do some testing of the paints suggested above here in my shop as well as the acrylic paints we generally use before I make up my mind totally... but I think I see a mini-letterhead project in the making down in Minnesota...
Thanks again for all the suggestions and helpful advice!
-grampa dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8738 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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Job it out to a few fellow LETTERHEADS in Minnesota, you'll save on trucking. Roll up time could be limited to a couple of hours to get it to the Mall. Mikey Meyer, Dave Correl or myself could probally help you out. We do install work too.
-------------------- Silver Creek Signworks Dick Bohrer Two Harbors, MN Posts: 236 | From: Two Harbors, MN USA | Registered: Jun 1999
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A 16ft x 4ft tressle table (two 8x4 sign panels on saw horses) ... a 1/10th scale (metric!) drawing ... vinyl screen inks and laquor thinners ... plenty of coffee and I'll cut it a couple days for you.
I'm in Chilliwack on the 16th June with my Hadyn Truck brushes ... that too late?
The heck with a Letterhead project... I want some cash! Hahahahahahahaha! Dinner, too!
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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Bruce if we work this right it could be lots of cash (American). I get work from the Canadians all the time up here. They can't get caught crossing the border with signs and putting them up on our side without a work permit, eh. Hey how cold is it in St Cloud, we're heading for 20 below zero tonite. Canadian cold front.
-------------------- Silver Creek Signworks Dick Bohrer Two Harbors, MN Posts: 236 | From: Two Harbors, MN USA | Registered: Jun 1999
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Unless that substrate is completely opaque, the lettering on the reverse side will show through and compromise the readability. A lot will also depend on the lighting. It isn't only the paint that should be tested, but the substrate as well.
-------------------- Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com
Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ? Posts: 2684 | From: London,Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 1999
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All of these painters and yet no one here EVER mentions the Ronan Aquacote paints. It is a great water-based acrylic that adheres great and brushes well. I use it religiously!
What do you all know that I don't (or vice-versa)?
-------------------- Gene Golden Gettysburg Signs Gettysburg PA 17325 717-334-0200 genegolden@gettysburgsigns.com
"Art is knowing when to stop." Posts: 1578 | From: Gettysburg, PA | Registered: Jun 2003
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Bruce, I would be honored to work second wing with ya on it, heck after a week like the one I just suffered through, a vacation is in need!!!!
Call me, got my paints all ready loaded up.
-------------------- Sharing the WORD one sign at a time!! Joe Golden Signage 721 Oak ST, Madisonville KY, 42431 270-871-0454 Posts: 270 | From: Madisonville, Kentucky | Registered: Oct 2006
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Mike, I will take that soup if it is Minnesotrone...
Actually, just give me a can of soup. You don't want it back when I am done. Trust me.
Yah, it be cold here, Dick. I do like, though. Beats the crap weather we had in New York.
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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How about doing the banner in (2)25ft. sections and "seam" them together on site since you have 30 ft of space? I agree with using aquacote after testing a small area first. Less fumes and sprays well enough with a good HVLP. Sounds like fun. Good luck.
posted
Hey Dan.. Long time ago..when living in calgary I used baby powder to put on the chuck wagon cover for the Calgary Stampede..done lots of them never had a problem...smells good to..cleans off easy .. I also remember a pinstriper in Kelowna..than would put on his hands before stripping a car , so his hands would slide better and no squike...
-------------------- Brian Hansen Heritage Signs & Graphic Designs 6003 Route 495 St.Marie New Brunswick (506)955.8885 Posts: 315 | From: St. Marie , New Brunswick | Registered: May 2002
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