posted
We are discovering plenty of things on our train/sign project currently in the shop.
More than ever before we are using the MultiCam to whittle the various parts from 30lb Precision Board. We are doing it for a number of reasons...
Its saving us plenty of time. Its allowing us to put in much more detail than ever before. It allows us to build a train which looks like heavy steel without the weight - a must for this particular job.
We are using Steve's Magic Smooth to glue on many of the bits and pieces. The epoxy mixes easily and while keeping things in place allows the luxury of moving them around a little before it dries. The paste doesn't run or drip like many glues.
The wheels and lower frame of the engine are also routed from Precision Board as are the rails and plates on the tracks. There is a LOT of HDU in this project! One more day and we are ready for paint on the engine!
For the first time we are using PVC pipes to build some logs for the train. The PVC will cut the weight dramatically for this part of the feature. We routed the faces of the logs and signs on the router. I created my own bitmap files for the woodgrain on the ends and flat sides of the logs to allow us to maintain the cartoon style I desired for this project. We used 3/4" plywood as a support structure under the Precision Board. I'll use the air powered die grinder to hand finish and blend the two pieces on the edges.
Donna cut irregular strips from 1/2" insulation foam and glued them on the large pipes using Magic Sculpt. We will apply a texture coat of the same stuff to the whole surface to give the bark its final rough texture and also give the pieces the strength and durability we require. A creative coat of acrylic paint will be the finishing touch!
The progress has been quick and I'm pleased with the results so far. We are inventing and experimenting as we go on this project for much of it is new territory for us in our shop...
With each success I am inspired to do a hundred new things in the future!
Having a blast in Yarrow!
-grampa dan
[ January 16, 2007, 07:21 PM: Message edited by: Dan Sawatzky ]
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8741 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
These were 28" pipes bought from a local irrigation supply house. They were made about 20 miles from here. I know I can get up to 36" locally.
I bought cut-offs (shorts) which saved me considerable money off the regular price. We only needed pieces 7 feet long. I bought a variety of diameters for the log loads which will be built for this project. They are available in heavy wall (schedule 40) and light wall... (schedule 20)
I would think they are available just about everywhere.
-grampa dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8741 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I am, and have always been amazed at your creations. I also enjoy the updates on these projects. I do have a couple of questions. It sounds like the tectures you rout take a long time on the router. Do you figure this time in costing out the project? Better yet have you a magic formula in pricing a project like this one. Last, do you always use 30 lb HDU and why?
-------------------- Tom & Kathy Durham House Springs, MO Posts: 654 | From: House Springs, MO | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
I price the projects we create by their value, not on what they cost me. When I'm doing the concept drawing I can generally quote a price before I'm done or even often have a pretty good idea of a budget I'm aiming for before I even start... and I generally would spend only a couple of hours on a concept drawing for a piece like this. Experience building similar pieces and knowledge of the marketplace has taught me just what something is worth. We make good money on every phase of their design, construction and installation.
I do however keep tab of our time and materials involved, both our own hours and the hours of the machine. I do it more as a check point after the fact to make sure we do OK. On this job alone, over 3 months, the router will pretty much pay for itself if I balance it against how many hours would have been required to produce these same pieces by hand with skilled labor.
The MultiCam is to me a highly skilled employee which turns out flawless work almost as fast as I can feed the files to it. Most of the files for this project were created in minutes - as I needed them. I send them to the MultiCam, set it in motion and go on to other fabrication while the machine churns away. Large detailed files which will run a long time I do at night if possible, while I sleep.
We are building the current project with five people (3 of them part time) and our MultiCam. A similar project (in size and value) a few years ago required 15 skilled people. Both jobs took about 4 months. Do the math. Because I can produce the project with less labor does not diminish the value by one little bit. The value of the project has actually increased because of inflation (and I priced it that way).
When I put the router into action I balance that against the time it would take to do it by hand... it has to make sense. I also don't add texture unless it can be seen. If the texture is detailed and requires a small bit I try and do it in as small a piece as I can as a separate layer and then laminate it to a larger piece (after painting) where not as much texture is involved and therefore is quicker to produce with a larger bit.
Most of the pieces for the train, with the exceptions of the logos are done with a 3/8 ball nose bit. That machines pretty quick, even on a large piece.
I ALWAYS use 30 lb Precision Board for three reasons... the heavier weights are much stronger and will withstand a lot more abuse. The 30 LB Precision Board machines nicer, it holds detail beautifully. Because it is denser it finishes much faster. These three things more than offset the extra cost. While I could possibly save some money by using lighter weights on occasion, that would actually require I keep more stock on hand which doesn't make sense to me.
-grampa dan
[ January 17, 2007, 12:59 AM: Message edited by: Dan Sawatzky ]
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8741 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
As example of the above comments I'll post three pictures to show what I mean...
The first are some pieces on the MultiCam The lower four are reinforcing gussets with rivets for the hitch on the rail car. The file was created in less than five minutes in EnRoute Pro 3 and both pieces took only twenty minutes to route with a 3/8" ball nose bit. Doing it in one piece from thicker material was faster (and more econimical) than gluing rivets on later. Prepping for paint will take seconds with only a little hand sanding to round the edges required. I could never have built a similar finished piece by hand in that time.
The piece above it being routed is a faux steel gusset for the heavy steel I-beams under the train - one of four such pieces required on this project. Those four pieces routed in the time I sized the photos and typed this post.
While that file (and others) was routing I did up the steel work which will support the pieces. It needed to be strong. The fake steel gussets with rivets will be glued where the square tubing is welded together.
I've also included a picture of the headlight number created with a smaller bit on the MultiCam and consequently took a little longer (per square inch) to route. The rest of the headlight used a bigger bit as there wasn't any detail needed. You will see I used a cast piece of wrought iron as the topper. Buying it was only a few dollars and I couldn't make it economically. Once its all painted up you won't be able to tell which is steel or Precision Board. In the background and in previous pictures you can see where Donna glued on individual rivets onto the welded steel components like the boiler, saddle water tank and cab of the train. It made sense here to do individual rivets and then glue them on. On the tender part of the engine it made sense to route them as one piece with the flat areas.
Hope this helps...
-grampa dan
[ January 17, 2007, 12:55 AM: Message edited by: Dan Sawatzky ]
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8741 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Here's a pic of the finsihed hitch to make things clearer...
It's siliconed into place... only a few seconds. I'll add some paintable caulking around the edges in the morning to fill the gaps and then its ready for paint along with the frame.
The whole project took just under two and a half hours hours including all metal fab & grinding. While I did the metal stuff the MultiCam produced the routed stuff (and more pieces too) I also did up the three posts above in that time period. Not a bad evening's work. More fun and profitable than watching TV.
The train is made up of many such small assemblies... none particularly difficult or complex... but all put together they are absolute magic!
-grampa dan
[ January 17, 2007, 01:32 AM: Message edited by: Dan Sawatzky ]
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8741 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Dan when you do a big project like this that will be housed in a public place, what has to be done in terms of safety inspections? I'm thinking of things like the welds etc. Do you run into any trouble with having them covered, or is this all just eye candy so you don't need to concern yourself with that? I understand that the example with the hitch is probably not something that would cause trouble but what about poles and brackets and supports and things like that that could possibly fall or fail.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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Most of us watching this show do not think the way you think. Where you spend just minutes solving problems, I would be mulling over for hours or even days. And I would still doubt myself in some areas.
Your imagination and confidence are contagious.
Thanks for taking the time to share. Please keep it up.
My question: how do you get this monster out the door and onto a transport truck?
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Absolutely fantastic, your creative talents and workmanship are of the highest caliber. I like your thinking on pricing this type of project, everyone should think about this way to quote work. Keep up the great work. Len Mort
-------------------- Len Mort Signmaker1.com 11 Juniper Drive Millbury, MA 508-865-2382 "A Good Business Sign, is A Sign of Good Business"(1957) Posts: 811 | From: Millbury, Ma | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
Our projects are engineered if need be. I also get a structural welder who's certified if its required.
On this particular project the heavy I-beams underneath the project are the structural part. You can't see the join in the pictures but the twenty foot beams are actually two 10' pieces.They will sit on three pilons down on the site. The pilons and the welding of the beams is the structural part of the equation... all done under an engineer's watchful eye. It is all over built to the extreme and will be more than safe.
THe train engine and log car are actually two features and will be moved separately. I'm building them together like they will be in their final place so everything fits together like it should. THe hitch pictured above will have a simple craw bar bolting the two hitches together. In reality this part is all for show. I built it strong so that it can be stood on during assembly if we need to. Its also a grab point during the handling and moving process.
The structural joining of the beams and the structural steel of the train above it is all visible and will remain so. The wheels and bits of the train in front of it hide it from the casual observer for the most part. Its there but all the eye candy makes it virtually invisible.
All of our pirces will be able to be simply picked up with a forklift and loaded into the truck for transport. They will also have lift points hidden on the top for lifting by a crane.
While the train looks to be very heavy, in reality each section will weigh less than a thousand pounds, small potatoes in the structural world.
Everything we do on this project is designed to go into a truck, and then be wheeled down narrow hallways, into freight elevators and then onto the worksite on the third floor of the building. A fall back position is to bring a crane into the mall where it is going and lift it to the third floor. I'm hoping for the second solution as it is less man handling for the pieces.
It will all be interesting to say the least!
This morning I'm off to shop for parts to build the plane... next week's project.
-grampa dan
[ January 17, 2007, 11:39 AM: Message edited by: Dan Sawatzky ]
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8741 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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![[Smile]](smile.gif)
It's siliconed into place... only a few seconds. I'll add some paintable caulking around the edges in the morning to fill the gaps and then its ready for paint along with the frame.
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