-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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A number of things bothering me on this one. First off the letterstyles aren't working well together, too many italics.
The swash on Rogie is a little overworked, I'd trim it off below the letters. I'd center both Rogie and Trucking. I'd also put Rogie on a level plane.
You've got a bunch of negative space issues going on, especially between the R and the O in Rogie, between the E and the swash and the negative space in the C in trucking is shining like a spotlight. Open up the kerning. The lettering is crowding the oval, especially on the top.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
Thanks George. Does this address some of the issues? It's tough to have the Rogie on a straight plain with the g and not end up with negative space problems.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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posted
Kelly, I liked it fine the first time, I'm no expert and it looked pleasing to me. George sounds like an expert and I'm sure that's great advice he's given you. Gorgeous colours
-------------------- Anne McDonald 17 Karnak Crescent Russley Christchurch 8042 New Zealand
"I used to be indecisive, now I'm not so sure" Posts: 877 | From: Christchurch | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
I enjoy reading such a well articulated, and experienced, critique. (Especially when it's not my design ) ...that said, I thought it looked real nice. And even after considering all Georges comments, & looking forward to what tweaks it may inspire... I still consider the original to be better then the average designs around here. I will also add that I like it better then the first revision.
posted
Kelly, I'm inclined to agree with George too... but there's a better variation awaiting development here!
I like the Rogie when it breaks the boundaries of the ovals, and in #2, you shrank it to keep in inside...I'd push its size up & slightly over the borders.
I like the font of trucking in #1. IN #2, it's too skinny & condensed also- it could handle stretching a bit, but I'd go back to that style from #1.
Alternately, put that G's swash back (into an enlarged #2, and shift Trucking up and onto it slightly. There's room for the C to 'hang' on the loop of the g.
That's $0.03!
Nice colours!
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
My first thought was to ditch the oval. I find ovals as panels can sometimes be tough to deal with, negative space wise. The one you have now, the border is way too thick and wants to come to the foreground. Also it’s wayyyy off center. The Rogie font looks kinda “Christmassy” to me and the outline on it could be darker. Maybe it could be the out of place maroon colored outline on trucking? I like the font for Trucking in #1 much better than the slab serif one in #2. How about a reverse panel for trucking? Is there a reason why the phone number is justified to the right? Looks out of place to me. And I’d like to see the phone number in a lighter weight, it is just secondary copy on a truck. Don’t mean to be too harsh on you. I’m not really seeing anything here that looks tied in together, font or color wise.
Stevo
-------------------- Stevo Design Illustration Logos Sign Design Clip Art www.stevo-design.com Posts: 1680 | From: Edmonton Ab Canada EH! | Registered: May 2001
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posted
I like your second with Ian's idea of making Rogie bigger and coming out of the circle.
Just personal but the idea of putting the phone # in a logo grates on my teeth. I have yet to see anyone copy a phone # from the side of a vehicle. A potential customer might remember a town for looking up the # but not a phone #. So Stevo's phone # looks better to me, a lot more subtle.
I love your colours and I find your message easy to read. Just my 2 cents.
-------------------- Deri Russell Wildwood Signs Hanover, Ontario
You're just jealous 'cause the little voices only talk to me. Posts: 1904 | From: Hanover, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
I really enjoy these critque threads. It's nice to have a fresh viewpoint.
Nice design Stevo, I often like your remakes, you really have managed to nail a "Stevo" style. I guess I missed the mark on the second one, but I intentionally tried to off centre things.
Deri, as far as the phone number is concerned I usually agree with you. But in this day of cell phones in the farming industry, a farmer will call the trucker from across the yard to give him directions as to which bin to pull up to. This fellow is a local trucker who bought his business partner out, there really is no other place for him to advertise the new phone number other than the truck and the occasional business card he hands out. It is a cell phone number so it is not listed in any local directories. For that reason I feel it needs to be very visible.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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posted
I like the lettering styles in the first one but there are some things I'd change. (Well, you asked ) I agree that the phone number doesn't need to be part of the logo. It can go underneath, or somewhere else on the truck. I like the swoosh on the G, and I like the colors, but there is something bugging me about the R being the lightest value, and then the light blue behind it also being light seems to draw your eye there and it gets stuck. I'd make the "ogie" bigger and bring it in tighter to the R to fill up that hole. Then I'd enlarge the Rogie and let the swoosh on the G overlap the "trucking" a bit.
I'm too lazy to draw it from scratch, but if you email me the file I'd show you what I mean.
You are right, these posts are fun!
PS, Ray, I love the style of bevel on that lettering, but man that font is hard to read!
posted
I'd love to send you the file Suelynn, but it is a Xara one and Xara doesn't like Corel. It takes a fair amount of work to get things to crossover. You will get it eventually though. In the meanwhile I tried to read your mind..... as well as incorporate a few other suggestions. Look Ma no phone number! But you know it is going to go back on there. I'll just cut it out of vinyl here.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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posted
I like that one even better Kelly! I'm not sure it needs it, or that it would even look good... but based on the implied light source, it seems like the shadow of the "g" should be showing up on the "C" in "TRUCKING"
posted
...oh, & I also think I'd like the see the outline on Rogie be created like a seperate contour behind that one, maybe offset a few points further out..
...& then keep the current contour all white, or at least pull the inside of that outline a few points further out to maintain the integrity of that font in the thin areas.
posted
You need to lose the connector tail on the front of the "o" Kelly, that should help with the kerning hole between the R and the O. I don't understand why you have two different colors on the outlines of the two words. I would lose the outline on the script. There is a lot going on in this design, with the fancy script and the raised look TRUCKING, and all the shadows and stuff. The way the colors are placed inside of the oval make the design look off balance. Love...Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
I like the last one, Kelly. I'm not a big fan of that 'Trucking' letterstyle, but overall I think it looks really good.
I do agree with the others... the first one was like looking at a pretty girl with a big pimple on her face... I kept just staring at that phone number....
Good job.
-------------------- Jon Jantz Snappysign.com jjantz21@gmail.com http://www.allcw.com Posts: 3395 | From: Atmore, AL | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Kelly, I just went to the XARA website and that looks like a pretty cool program. What does it take to get a graphic ready to cut? in Corel? Omega, etc.?
-------------------- Laura Butler Vision Graphics & Sign 4479 Welch Rd Attica, Mi 48412 Posts: 2855 | From: Attica, Mi, USA | Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
Here is how I think I'd do it. I put a sunburst inside the empty oval. Wish I knew how to do one like on the BB logo. Love....Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
I like the latest version but also like the trucking font from the first one (except no slant)
a couple things kinda bug me though
The outline on Rogie... with a highlight letter, then a light middle-tone outline, then a dark outline, it looks blurry to me.
The multiple light sources .... Rogie from the top right. Outside oval and trucking from top left. Then the dark blue inside the oval, if a shadow, from dead right ... I don't understand what the light blue on the inside left is
quote: Ha ha ha, we could do this for days couldn't we?? It's neat to see other designers preferences isn't it?
-------------------- Compulsive, Neurotic, Anti-social and Paranoid ... but basically Happy Posts: 2677 | From: Rochester, NY, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
That's what I meant, Kelly, overlapping the oval, but stick with #1s Trucking, and the lighter blue oval background in the centre doesn't make it to the right hand side, and it sort of needs to, IMHO. Other comments above I also agree with- outlines need to be the same to help tie it together- I'd use the rusty brown from Trucking and also put it onto Rogie- it has a bit of life, while the chocolate brown is deadish. And the g should throw its shadow onto Trucking...
good thread!
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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I think this clean and is fitting for a truck door.
To top it off... I did the whole thing in Corel. Shhhhhhhhhh... Don't tell!
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6453 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
It’s getting better. You're getting alot of great critiques and suggestions here. We could nitpick it to death but I'm still seeing some very basic things that could be corrected. The multiple light sources, as Mark mentioned.
It still really doesn’t feel like truck lettering to me. Kind of a cross between a Christmas card and a Plumber. (if that makes sense).
The outline on the Christmas script is on the inside? Your thin strokes are almost non-existent and with that mid tone color it makes it look worse. How about a thicker, dark blue outline to the outside? Outlines should add contrast and it’ll make it “pop” more. I don’t know why someone would have two different outline colors. It will tie it together more with just the same colored outline.
Isn’t the Trucking font actually a prismatic font? It would separate the two lines of text just enough if it was prismatic. Or a reverse panel would also work.
The beveled oval is really just a background element and it looks “dimensional”, to me it wants to come forward when everything else in front of it looks flat. A darker color and losing the eye candied stuff on it will help it sit back more.
I’d lose the slant on Rogie, there’s a big hole above “ing”. I know it’s hard to avoid but slanting up on that side makes the hole even bigger. Also that other off centered oval inside the oval I find confusing, maybe some subtle rule lines instead?
Intentionally off centering things?? Glad you corrected that.
I think you need to try designing in B&W first. You have a lot of elements in there that are fairly close to their grayscale value. And as Mark said it’s starting to look fuzzy with all those mid-toned outlines. Just a few suggestions.
Stevo
-------------------- Stevo Design Illustration Logos Sign Design Clip Art www.stevo-design.com Posts: 1680 | From: Edmonton Ab Canada EH! | Registered: May 2001
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posted
I like your #3 Kelly. I think that looks great.
You have to keep in mind the customer and whether he's going to notice the little wee things like a shadow or light source being off a degree or 2 in one spot. And how much time it takes to fix. Is it worth the time to go back and "fix" those things or is it starting to be too much time on design and cutting into the profits. I'd go with #3. It looks great.
-------------------- Deri Russell Wildwood Signs Hanover, Ontario
You're just jealous 'cause the little voices only talk to me. Posts: 1904 | From: Hanover, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
I love all of the different designs for what they are and their layout styles, but isn't what this guy needs is his "name" to pop out as well as his number? in everyone of the layouts, except stevo's, the first thing I see is either a big circle or trucking and neither one of these will get him business... now if this is this guys layout style or logo, then so be it, sometimes you have to make the customer happy, but if thats the case whoever sold the guy on it the first time did him a disservice. Hope i didnt ruffle any feathers, wasn't my plan if i did, just my thoughts on it...
Shawn
-------------------- Shawn Setzer Signs by Shawn 826 Hwy 47 East, Troy, MO Posts: 241 | From: Troy, MO, USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6453 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
I'll try to play with it today if i have time to show you what i mean Bruce, but paying customers come first...gotta pay the bills before i play...
Here's a link to a similar job though...as far as truck drivers go...if the name doesn't hit you first, in my opinion, then it's nothing more than d.o.t. compliance, and they can do that themselves with a marker and some duct tape...
posted
Shawn, at first I thought what you said was a little harsh.... but upon thinking about it and looking at the logos.. I think you're right, the 'TRUCKING' on a lot of the examples could be lower key and the 'NAME' more prominent...
After all, if it's on the side of a truck, most people can figure out you're a 'TRUCKING' company... Look at the biggest truck lines for example, Schneider, Swift, CFI... they don't even have 'trucking', 'transport' or 'carriers' as part of their main logo...
Good point, I think.
-------------------- Jon Jantz Snappysign.com jjantz21@gmail.com http://www.allcw.com Posts: 3395 | From: Atmore, AL | Registered: Nov 2005
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Like i said, i didn't mean to upset anyone but the topic was "critique time"
There is some wonderful talent in here, probably some of the best in the world, and we can design beautiful signs all day long but if they dont get the customer what they want (and need), more business, then they wont be back next year for us to letter another truck, they'll be greeting us at Wal-Mart because they had to pay the rent...
Shawn
-------------------- Shawn Setzer Signs by Shawn 826 Hwy 47 East, Troy, MO Posts: 241 | From: Troy, MO, USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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I think you need to try designing in B&W first. You have a lot of elements in there that are fairly close to their grayscale value. And as Mark said it’s starting to look fuzzy with all those mid-toned outlines. Just a few suggestions.
Stevo
Great advice!!!! Working in B&W will really point out the problems with contrast that are going on. You've got that heavy outline on the oval that's equal to the stroke width in your letters, the value of the outline is in some places the same as the lettering, in other places it's awfully close. You've got your lettering running over the oval and when you do the "squint test" the eye "welds" everything together. Get that design to work in B&W first and then bring in the eye candy.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
Wow I didn't expect this post to take off like that. This post was a result of being snowbound at my shop and deciding to try and break out of a mould and try something different. Sorry I haven't been back on here - I've been busy with some other more important matters. I like the critiques and was having fun trying to make the changes others suggested. I know there is lots of fine tuning, I tend to go for the overall look and then go back and make it right technically. I just find that if I spend too much time on the details before I decide on the overall design, it takes forever. I'm still pretty new at this, all that stuff that comes natural to the rest of you takes concentration on my part. All the advice is good, and I enjoy the interactive advice. If I was to post something perfect...not that I could LOL, it would be about pats on the back and BORING! I also love seeing other people's takes on it and seeing that some that I admire make mistakes too. I'm not afraid of mistakes, check out my tag line.
There is an interesting dynamic here as far as style is concerned. I enjoy trying to figure out the link to personalities, geographical, chronological etc. factors
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
) ...that said, I thought it looked real nice. And even after considering all Georges comments, & looking forward to what tweaks it may inspire... I still consider the original to be better then the average designs around here. I will also add that I like it better then the first revision.
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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