I've read every article I could find and two books on glue chipping glass. I've talked to enough people who've told me it's not as difficult as it looks. Not easy, but not rocket science.
I'll eliminate the story of the disaster but it all boils down to vinyl not sticking to the asphaltum when hit with the sandblaster. The instructions all say using vinyl for a mask is fine and I use it for glass etching all the time but I can't get the vinyl to stick to this stinking black stuff.
I tried brushing it on, then tried rolling it, and today I sprayed it, getting a nice smooth finish and destroying an airbrush in the process.
The asphaltum feels dry, and the vinyl acts like it will stick but it's not holding at all.
Any ideas?
[ December 27, 2006, 04:24 PM: Message edited by: Patrick Whatley ]
-------------------- Pat Whatley Montgomery, AL (334) 262-7446 office (334) 324-8465 cell Posts: 1306 | From: Wetumpka, AL USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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roll on the asphaltum, then blast @ 20 lbs pressure.
-------------------- John Arnott El Cajon CA 619 596-9989 signgraphics1@aol.com http://www.signgraphics1.com Posts: 1443 | From: El Cajon CA usa | Registered: Dec 1998
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What about painting the asphaltum with One Shot?
-------------------- Ricky Jackson Signs Now 614 Russell Parkway Warner Robins, GA (478) 923-7722 signpimp50@hotmail.com
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Issac Newton Posts: 3528 | From: Warner Robins, GA | Registered: Oct 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Patrick Whatley: I'm assuming it's genuine asphaltum because I don't know why anybody would make a fake version of this stuff. I got it from Letterhead Sign Supply.
Oh no... the Chinese have invaded Letterville. Are you sure you didn't buy a knock-off at Wal-Mart?
-------------------- Ricky Jackson Signs Now 614 Russell Parkway Warner Robins, GA (478) 923-7722 signpimp50@hotmail.com
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Issac Newton Posts: 3528 | From: Warner Robins, GA | Registered: Oct 2004
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I started using Wall Tar.. Its very thin tar used to coat concrete walls before they backfill a foundation.. 5 Gallon Can $25. Can also use it to coat posts before putting them in the ground.(multiuse product).. Roll it on and I usally let it dry a day or so. Put mask on and Blast at low presure..20 to 25 psi. (Forgot to turn down blaster once and made a Complete mess.. Mask was all over the place.. Wasn't pretty) I have been blasting with Black Beauty but it seems a little coarse for a real fine chip. So I got some used Carbide/Quartz from my baster friend. I figure its around a 200 grit/Powder sand when they give it to me. If you have some real fine detail that your trying to blast I will spray the coated glass with some 3M Spray77 before I apply the mask for just a little extra bite.
posted
Pat, I used regular paint mask from Avery. Same thing happened to me, it blew right off the asphaltum. I wasted 2 pieces of finished glass. Ended up using sandblasting mask from Anchor.
I am thinking maybe we ought to use the calendered vinyl, like Brent said.
Now, Bill here, using that tar, I find that very interesting!
-------------------- The Word in Signs Bobbie Rochow Jamestown, PA 16134
724-927-6471
thewordinsigns@alltel.net Posts: 3485 | From: Jamestown, PA 16134 | Registered: Oct 2002
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(((---- photo not coming likeness close enough
Patrick, welcome to the world of glue chipping, almost everyone I know who has done it seems to go through frustration of some sort along the way, It makes the end result all the more pleasing, Here is a simpler way of doing this that does work.
1/ clean the glass and apply vinyl mask ( I use the gerber blue low tac or just a matt white oracle 451 works)
2/ lightly frost the glass the lighter the better use a fine grade of sand/ silicone carbide.
3/ apply the glue I always like to heat the glass for 1/2 hour seems to help the glue flow as it is not instantly cooling as it hits the glass.
4/ let it set up then trim the edges with a sharple knife xacto or scalpel
5/ very carefully remove mask
6/ put in chipping cabinate and wait
Asphaltum is basically tar it's main purpose is to provide a chemical barrier to the water based glue I find that certainly on simpler designs the physical barrier provided by the vinyl mask is enough, just make sure you trim the excess glue off and carefully remove the mask
Experiment with a few test panels seems the best advice Cheers Terry
-------------------- Terry Colley The VintageSign Co 42 barrack hill Romiley Stockport Cheshire, England sk6 3az tel 0161 494 5089 terry@bullandbrush.fsnet.co.uk Posts: 210 | From: England | Registered: Dec 1999
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I agree with Terry, I have never used Asphaltum for anything. I make my mask with Avery calendered material, sandblast then apply glue and cut along the edge. I remove the excess glue and leave the mask on.
I leave the glue on for one day to set up a bit then add heat and a dehumidifier. Works a treat.
have fun experimenting
-------------------- Anne McDonald 17 Karnak Crescent Russley Christchurch 8042 New Zealand
"I used to be indecisive, now I'm not so sure" Posts: 877 | From: Christchurch | Registered: Sep 2006
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Ditto to the above two posts- I haven't ever used asphaltum. I've used sandblast vinyl, and also paintmask vinyl OK- the thickness of the sandblast vinyl helps. When the glue has just gelled, take an exacto and cut along all edges to separate the glue from the mask, and then leave it alone to chip.
edited to add- I like Terry's idea of warming the glass first...
[ December 28, 2006, 08:41 AM: Message edited by: Ian Stewart-Koster ]
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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I've also done glue chip both ways - with and without asphaltum - and I prefer to go without and just use mask. You have to be a little more careful with your glue application, but it still works fine, you eliminate your problem and don't have to clean asphatum off the glass, a serious PITA, IMO.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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A tip for those using just mask. You can cut an extra 1/8" or so outline and after you trim the glue you can just remove the outline. It safegaurds against missing glue that has somehow crept under the vinyl and at the same time is much easier than removing large peices of vinyl from glass that is covered in soft glue. Since this was suggested to me I find it has almost eliminated "plinks".
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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BTW - if you are using calendared vinyl and cutting a outline, cut it reasonably close to when you plan on blasting or you may end up with a sandblasted line due to the vinyl shrinking.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Kelly Thorson: A tip for those using just mask. You can cut an extra 1/8" or so outline and after you trim the glue you can just remove the outline.
I was just reading through responses and asking myself if that would work.
Here's my game plan now, I'm going to try all four of these methods:
1 - Vinyl directly on glass, cover the whole thing with glue
2 - Vinyl directly on glass, 1/8" outline, glue, then remove excess
3 - Apply vinyl cut to the shape I want to chip, coat panel in asphaltum, remove vinyl, acid etch the glass, glue chip
4 - Apply asphaltum, mask, etch with slow-ss'd air eraser, apply glue
If none of that works I'll bust everything into pieces with the slingshot, talk bad about people who successfully chip glass, and go back to making a faux chipped glass effect with Elmers glue.
Long live the id.
-------------------- Pat Whatley Montgomery, AL (334) 262-7446 office (334) 324-8465 cell Posts: 1306 | From: Wetumpka, AL USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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Pat Tried the Acid Etch once before.. Didn't work. Glue can't bite to the glass to get a chip.. It just dried and curled up. I used the paste type acid. Best of Luck.
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Are you sure you didn't buy a knock-off at Wal-Mart?
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