posted
I recently walked into a print shop (owned by some friends of ours) to have them make me some color transparencies for my projector and they asked if I had much call for wide format digital prints?
I told them I used them once in a while and they asked why I didn't invest in the technology?...my answer was simple ...we just haven't seen the market yet in our area that would justify purchasing the equipment.
At that point they informed me that they had just purchase a wide format printer and laminator and would we use them when we needed digital prints?
My immediate answer was sure (they are close) I didn't even ask what their rate was when she informed me that Kinkos is charging $10.00 a square foot and "we will be doing it cheaper at $7.00 a square foot.
Because they are friends I asked why they wanted to leave $3.00 on the table for every purchase they had when all they had to do was do a better job and make the same or more?
The reaction was because we want more of Kinkos buisness...
So I went into my standard rant..."I do banners with simple average copy for $7.00 a square foot and you have a machine that will replicate a Rembrandt and you are charging the same money" it makes no since...true I know what the market is but in reality the digital market should be charging even more than $10.00 a square.
It's a hole the digital people have already dug for themselves.
My real point to them was....they don't have Kinkos customers anyway so why do it cheaper...their client base will be based on who walks into their shop and also wants digital prints (if their price is the same, people won't leave to go to Kinkos)and they should build their clientele on their customer base not on Kinkos customers who rarely if ever wander into their store... plus.... the discounted rate won't drag customers from Kinkos because they are already in Kinkos and won't make the extra trip for someone they don't know that does it "cheaper".
It seems we never learn about cutting our prices and our throats at the same time...I am glad however to see the we aren't the only trade that practices such madness.
What do you think?
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
To myself the Digital age is like the Vinyl age...
They have just bought a shiny new system and now have to pay for it! The bank doesn't care were the money comes from as long as it is in the account on time.
Take their offer and run with it. You get it for $7.00 per and flip it for $15.00 per. You make money and they think they are as well. Until the day they realize that they have to increase the price for overhead costs.
You know as well as I do, that your market is in the "Graphic Image Design".
I don't care who prints it as long as it is of quality work. Even better is supplying your own subtrate to print on.
-------------------- Stephen Deveau RavenGraphics Insinx Digital Displays
Letting Your Imagination Run Wild! Posts: 4327 | From: Lower Sackville, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
It sounds as if printing is getting cheaper all the time. If so, then I don't think I'd want to get into a price war with Kinko. They function on volume, so they could probably undercut me for a while, if they wanted. Isn't this the same principle as mom-pop shop vs franchises? Anyway, if these folks can replicate a Rembrandt for less, I'd give them my business as long as they're in business.
-------------------- Bruce Williams Lexington KY Posts: 945 | From: Lexington, KY, USA | Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Oh I don't have a qualms with buying from them at $20.00 a Square...I just don't want them to fall into the pricing trap...sure I'll take the $7.00 figure right along with anyone else...but I'd rather see them still in biz next time I go to pick up my digital print!
I'm just going to move the cost along to my client anyway!
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
posted
That's the future of digital printing, I'm afraid. When I've got suppliers buying $80,000 printers so they can lower prices and print banners for me at around $1 psf somebody needs to talk to an accountant...or Monte.
-------------------- Pat Whatley Montgomery, AL (334) 262-7446 office (334) 324-8465 cell Posts: 1306 | From: Wetumpka, AL USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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I have said it before and I'll say it again. I cannot afford to buy a digital printer for the cheap prices I can get it from someone else. I make design, i email them the art I pick it up, I make money. they are local, quick and dependable. if a color doesnt look right they call me. Why would I walk away from that, all for the sake of saying I have a several thousand dollar machine.
I dont do that much digital printing here in montgomery anyway to justify having one. A larger sign company here in montgomery has a gerber MAXX that POS is broken down all the time. they run their edge more than the MAXX so I went to a print company at least their large format is always running. i pay less than $5 per sqft and Im happy with this arrangment.
As far as Im concerned everybody can go out and buy a printer Ill sit over here in my little corner and watch the prices drop
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
posted
Hey, if they think they can retail prints at $7 a square foot and make money, you should be able to talk them into a wholesale price of $3.50 a foot. Then you can still charge 15 a square and make some bank.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
Yup, my wholesaler is perfect. I can order via online/email, upload my tif via their FTP site, and voila, it's printed, laminated, cut, and shipped.
Their color is absolutley perfect every time. I charge $15 - $18 per square foot for full color cut vinyl with lamination to my customers. I am getting charged about half that which includes shipping.
And I have no maintenance. I like outsourcing...
-------------------- Randy Graphic Details Promotional Merchandise Distributor South Glens Falls, NY Posts: 381 | From: South Glens Falls, NY USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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I just got a quote from a well know national digital printing and vinyl supply wholesaler. 12-18x36 2 sided banners, sewn and grometed, full color for $20.50 each. That is 2.27 a square ft. Why would I ever buy my own equipment????
-------------------- Carper's Signs 594 Union School Rd. Mount Joy, PA 17552 carpersign@earthlink.net Posts: 157 | From: Lancaster, PA, USA | Registered: Aug 1999
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we got the LAMAR people here....doin billboards...$2-3 sq ft......i dont do any banners....one place here in town doin them for $2-3 sq ft....PRINTED!!! do i want a printer....yes, will i make me money, for a while untill KINKOS, FED EX, STAPLES, OFFICE DEPOT, KWIKI PRINT....all get on the band wagon.....of sellin it cheaper then the next guy..... ive said it before, i see the printer doin the same thing the vinyl machine did...but its gona happen a lot sooner....84-06 is 22 yrs....and vinyl is an everybodys small business....printers are gona really take that down even faster...in less then 10 yrs....and 2-3 of those are already gone...as to how printers are affecting this business.....equpiment is gettin cheaper...they build em so quick and so many....gota sell em, more manafactures of printers will lower pricing of them. then more people havin them ...they all do the same thing so the only way to sell youres is LOWER PRICES....was a guy on 101 offerin a special for printing to the sign people...$1.99 sq ft!!!!!!!!! so its now gona a McDONALDS type business....talent has no value anymore.....need to get me a potters wheel and kiln(bout the same price as a new printer)....that still reqires TALENT and art abilities......
[ November 11, 2006, 02:03 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Monte, I hear what you are saying, & I don't dispute a word of it. I can put myself in your friends shoes a little easier then most on this thread so far though.
I assume they have a solvent ink, which Kinko's probably doesn't, at least out here. I also assume they can, & do offer design work at a premium fee. If they do, then they should be getting some of the work Kinko's won't get based on that, & as you say, even matching Kinko's rate is enough to keep tire-kicking price shoppers from walking out the door, even if their service only matches theirs. I would assume they exceed Kinko's level of service & I believe they should charge $10 per sq. ft. also.
My reality is unique, so I don't presume that the following holds true for everyone, but being the first shop out here to get a large format print & cut set-up (Mimaki 63") we have seen tremendous reward for that investment. Many first time callers found what they needed when they called me(from my yellow page ad) for large printed items & now they have become repeat customers. Many customers take their new products, previously not seen much out here, & soon I end up with referral business from them. I am selling a lot more $80/hour design time these days as well.
As far as Im concerned everybody can sit home, telling everyone else to go out and buy a printer. I'll sit over here in my little corner where sales went from $180K last year to $280K this year. If other shops on Maui don't buy a printer, I'll be considering a second one, since this one paid for itself.
As far as outsourcing, a lot of you have great arrangements, so I realize many have no need to invest, but these threads draw wolf packs of inkjet bashers just like plotters did 15 years ago. I don't have anywhere to outsource, but with my own printer, there are a lot of opportunities that would not be available even if I did. Last minute large orders from trade show & convention folks. Stuff got lost by the airlines, or the final assembly of an event brings up the need for additional display graphics or signage.
I had a unique opportunity yesterday. Hawaii has enacted a statewide no smoking ordinance in public places, The ordinance requires signage. The state of Hawaii has put up a website with some high resolution .pdf files of attractive Hawaiian themed graphics incorporating flowers, fish, or greenery along with the international no smoking pictogram. A few clients (some existing, some new)have requested these signs for next Thursdays deadline.
A reporter doing a story on the new law called to ask if I had seen any new demand for no smoking signs due to this ordinance. I told her I was working on 3 orders at that moment. She had another question or two, but I stopped her & told her I thought she might be interested in a photo-op because right at that moment I had dozens of the photo-quality State issued NO SMOKING graphics pouring out of my (insert copious quantities of promotional adjectives here) printer.
She said she would be right over. I had stacks of contour cut sintra in the shapes of a Plumeria, a Leaf, & a Hibiscus flower. Since we will be laminating them, before cutting, I quickly printed one of each from my desktop onto photo paper, cut with sizzors & used a glue stik to have the appearance of 3 finished products ready for Luhea.
Me, my printer, & the fact that we printed out dozens of extra NO SMOKING graphics (for last minute compliance)will be in the Sunday paper!!
(by the way, I charged $15 for 5" x 5" laminated decals & $55 when mounted to 1/4" sintra)
posted
The real problem is that Kinkos requires you to at least provide a file to print from, and you get back whatever you give (no tweeks, or questions asked: "Are you sure you want black lettering on a red background with that picture of your daughter at 75 dpi?), and that a lot of sign companies are now willing to give their expert advice and art / layout abilities at the same prices.
THAT is the "trap".
-------------------- Tim Whitcher Adrian, MI Posts: 1546 | From: Adrian, MI | Registered: Mar 1999
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"The reaction was because we want more of Kinkos buisness..."
Lemme get this right...
Undercutting a huge national chain of printers with a gazillion times the buying power you have is a good thing? The "I-just-stopped-in-on-the-way-to-Wally World-lower-prices-always-mouth-breathers" is your target market?
And all this time I thought outdoing them with better quality work and better service, thus drawing a better clientel was a good idea.
Silly me... Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
That sounds in the neighborhood for wholesale to you at $7.00/sq. You are reselling, correct? I'm assuming they plan on selling at $7.00 to retail as well? If that's the case, ask them what your wholesale price is and then they will begin to see the light.
-------------------- Bruce Evans Crown Graphics Chino, CA graphics@westcoach.net Posts: 910 | From: Chino, CA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Joe, it might be time to take your own advice about the potters wheel and get out of the sign business. It sounds like you don't enjoy it any more. Why keep torturing yourself?
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5397 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
I fought getting the WF Printer for a long time.
What you might have fogotten, is that not everybody price shops and a large majority of customers wait to the last minute to order a sign.
This has been the case on EVERY print job we have had in the last two months. The customer needed the job done the same day and or by early the next day.
Becasue the printer was IN THE SHOP, we got the job, and billed what we felt like, not the going rate.
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