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I am New to all this and still at times get air bubbles. now I realise this is my error but I don't now what to change or what to check on my squeege just in case I can blame my tools. Any information would be gratefully devoured by myself Thanks Mike
-------------------- Michael Potter Dove Cottage 16 Dolphin Street Deception Bay 4508 Posts: 10 | From: brisbane, australia | Registered: May 2006
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Are you applying wet or dry? There are folks I know who can stick a 4' piece of vynull down dry with nary a bubble...but I'm not one of them. I do better with wet apps and a 3M gold squeegee. I prefer Rapid Tac application fluid. You spray the substrate, spray the sticky side of the vinyl, and squeegee the hell out of it. Then spray the application tape and squeegee that too. The only time I apply dry is for teeny tiny lettering, all coro, most banners, and some glass. But I still get bubbles on occasion. love...Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3484 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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Check your squeegee and make sure that it has a good edge on it. I had this problem recently and then decided to look at the squeegee that I was using. It had some dips in the edge. So either sharpen it on another squeegee or toss it.
[ September 27, 2006, 09:29 AM: Message edited by: Laura Butler ]
-------------------- Laura Butler Vision Graphics & Sign 4479 Welch Rd Attica, Mi 48412 Posts: 2855 | From: Attica, Mi, USA | Registered: Nov 2000
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I use gold squeegees exclusively now, even when applying the transfer tape. They don't come apart like the regular cheapie squeegees nor are they as easy to nick along the edges.
Other than that, it's about pulling some tension on the vinyl that hasn't been applied yet while squeegeeing the rest down good and tight.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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Believe it or not ...they will migrate out...if you have a severe bubble prick it with the tip of an exacto then leave it alone it will layout quickly.
We always let our customers know the bubbles will leave and have never had a problem nor a complaint.
Now wrinkles are a different think ...good luck!
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
posted
Michael, you mentioned layered vinyl in the post subject. Are you putting all your layers together first and then applying the entire graphic to your substrate? I find I end up with a lot of bubbles if I do that. The different heights of the vinyl will keep your squeegee from making full contact with the lower layers, and cause bubble city.
Here's the concept, since I don't convey ideas very well in print...
To avoid this problem, I mask each layer and apply them separately, using a variety of registration tricks I've learned myself and here on Letterville...
EDITED TO ADD: HAHAHAHA.. I CAN'T READ!! You said LAYED vinyl... SORRY!
[ September 27, 2006, 10:57 AM: Message edited by: Jon Jantz ]
-------------------- Jon Jantz Snappysign.com jjantz21@gmail.com http://www.allcw.com Posts: 3395 | From: Atmore, AL | Registered: Nov 2005
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Bubbles also occur when not enough application fluid is being used. Be sure to be generous with the spray and use quality application fluid. Gold squeegees are a must. Start from center and work out to edges
-------------------- Jeff Wisdom SignWorks info@oregonsignworks.com Posts: 450 | From: Oregon | Registered: Dec 2005
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I put down layered vinyl all the time and the way to avoid that bubble line is to either wrap a paper towel around the edge of the squeegee or use one of those cotton/felt edged squeegees for applying digital prints. The slightly softer edge will conform to the layers and lock the bottom layer down while eliminating the bubbles.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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wow thanks to all It worries me that you have evidently been watching me How else could you describe most of my errors. thanks heaps Mike
-------------------- Michael Potter Dove Cottage 16 Dolphin Street Deception Bay 4508 Posts: 10 | From: brisbane, australia | Registered: May 2006
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I have another tip, but one that is more relevant once you have mastered the basics a little more.
Once you can pull off a perfect application, you will one day find that you took for granted you level of expertise & suddenly, you will have substandard results.
The tip I'm referring is like the vinyl application equivilent of "keep your eye on the ball" ... I know this sounds rather esoteric... but i've often had to remind myself to focus my attention on the job at hand. Applying vinyl will become one of those mindless chores you "can do in your sleep" ... but that is when you are likely to be tripped up like I have by the consequences of over confidence.
just like the exact best technique that works for one person is never easy to put entirely in words... when you have mastered it through experience, you won't have words for all of it either... muscle memory will be peforming the task the way it felt all the times your mind was pleased with your handiwork... avoiding the errors that your mind was displeased with... but your muscle-memory is not doing it alone... those subtle techniques you don't have words for are still being coached by a focused mind... when the mind gets over confident and begins to wander... LOOK OUT!!
Well, that really sounds like cosmic debris, but I believe it & I've trained my employee to "pay attention" to her work when it began to get sloppy...
...it is so much like so many other things, if we are totally present in the moment, our mind controls the outcome of our performance far more then a lot of us give it credit for.
...but all that said, it only applies after you learn the proper technique. Good firm squeegee pressure is key & overlapping strokes is also mandatory. With a 4' squeegee... I never move more then 2" from one stroke to the next... probably less... & Mike suggestion of maintaining tension on the loose end is valuable info too. I think it's important that the squeegee brings the vinyl into contact at the first moment it makes contact. You don't let it lay down ahead of the squeegee first, & follow that with squeegee pressure... the squeegee must cause the first contact. Applying tension against the point of contact is one way, but holding the vinyl higher up & letting it fall down in a curl is another version that doesn't require "tension"... it just needs to be help up high enough & the hand that holds it has to constantly lower it at the right pace to allow the squeegee to lay it down ahead of the curl.
posted
Not to disagree with those of you who use a application product...however, I've been laying vinyl for 12 years now and find that dry is the best. It's one less elimiment to deal with and certainly saves time. I can even use a crappy squeegee and still get the vinyl down. I used to buy the gold ones, but now I just use the freebie white ones and still get the same result. Some of my squeegees are so old and not much left to them, but still work great! Not to say it's always perfect, but I don't deal with bubbles that often. The key is the method of pressure and the direction of pressure. I always use the hinge method and hold the one side up as mentioned in other posts. I start from the middle and squeegee up and down overlapping allowing the air to go out the top and bottom instead of getting trapped in the middle to cause bubbles. Try and keep the air free of humidity in your work shop and this will also make a difference. Last year I had a new employee...not much experience in vinyl. However, in following my methods "dry" and applying the correct direction and pressure he was laying vinyl with no bubbles within his first week! By one month he could do it better than me and would kick me out of the shop if I tried to help! haha
-------------------- Ottawa Custom Signs Stittsville, Ontario Posts: 346 | From: Stittsville, ON | Registered: Dec 1998
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Pressure, what Brenda said, a nice sharp edge, and experience. Those are the major key elements. Dry application becomes flawless when you have it down.
posted
WOW, I'm learning heaps here. One thing not mentioned yet is 3M Controltac. With the etch through the adhesive even the most inexperienced people in our workshop have had perfect results with nary a bubble. The etched effect is readily accepted by customers when they understand how good the product is. We have one customer who always insists on the best products for his vehicles, when we showed him Controltac he was rapt!! Personally I prefer dry application but if wet is what makes you comfortable and confident...run with it!
-------------------- Anne McDonald 17 Karnak Crescent Russley Christchurch 8042 New Zealand
"I used to be indecisive, now I'm not so sure" Posts: 877 | From: Christchurch | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
I've found that too much pressure on the initial wipes with the squeege causes bubbles. I'm guessing that too much pressure stretches and distorts the vinyl and application tape which traps air.
Like Doug said, paying close attention and using medium pressure has eliminated most bubbles for me. After it's all down, I re-squeege with alot of pressure. After pulling the application tape off, I lay the release liner on the vinyl and squeege one more time.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
I make sure to squeqee both up and down and side to side before removing the application tape.
Another trick I use is to wet down the application tape before removing it with either a mist of water or some Rapid Tac. Just enough to dampen the app tape. As Jon shows in his illustration, the small gap is where the vinyl doesn't quite get as much pressure and is where the bubbles tend to happen. The app tape has always seemed to pull a little on those areas, and wetting it lessens that a bit.
...and what Monte said. Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
What bubbles! They almost all go away don't they? At least in my mind they do. On a metal surface, store window or any southern exposure you'll never see a bubble in six months. Who has really seen any but the larges ones on anything 3 months later except around rivets or so. I put down some big prints on once on some alumalite and I was soooo worried, it looked like peanut brittle on there. A month later, zero defects visible, even the wrinkles. I did a window a couple of years ago with white vinyl, man I felt bad, it looked way bubble city. I just pricked them like mad, and the next day they were gone. I couldn't believe it. And a year later they moved to a new location anyway. ioafs
-------------------- Steve Vigeant Berkeley Signs Oakland, CA. Posts: 55 | From: Oakland, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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You know who are the worst about bubbles?? Race car drivers of all people... they hate 'em because they think bubbles are what's keeping their '81 Cutlass bomber from looking like a Cup car....
After being poormouthed into a low price, sometimes I'm less than careful when applying racecar graphics... then when they ask if the bubbles will come out.. I say "Sure, when you get T-boned in the third lap of the race, I guarantee you it'll pop the bubbles..." or "Hey, that's the discount I gave you... I'm sponsoring those bubbles..."
Usually gets things back in perspective...
[ October 02, 2006, 01:04 AM: Message edited by: Jon Jantz ]
-------------------- Jon Jantz Snappysign.com jjantz21@gmail.com http://www.allcw.com Posts: 3395 | From: Atmore, AL | Registered: Nov 2005
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Yes,, but why have bubbles when they are not needed. Why have pickle skin if a good application does not have them. Why have peanut brittle skin if the right tools prevent it? And why should a customer have to accept that the pickle skin will go away in a month?
Ask a cutsomer to pay a nice load of money and leave him with blisters (no they do not always go away) just doesnt sit well.There are so many tips, tricks and tools and professional juices around there is no need to leave a load of measles. I won't....
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5273 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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Since we got the VersaCamm, we have been buying the more expensive ControlTack with Comply vinyl, especially for automotive graphics.
Anyone can lay that vinyl down with out bubbles, even over and around rivits and other bumps. Yes, its way more expensive, but the time we save in application is worth it.
Not so with Orcal 651. Printing a graphic on O-651, and applying it to a magnetic sign...you need application fluid. On other surfaces, it can be laid down dry by squeegeeing small short movements in the direction of the loose vinyl which is being held up off the surface.
Even so, small bubbles may appear, hours later, that were not there before, such as in the case of an install done inside in the cool shop, then the sign is placed outside in the hot sun.
When we wrapped our vehicle a few years ago, I had a ton of bubbles in graphics. A few weeks went by and they were all gone. So, wrap your vehicle in graphics, then you can show customers that the bubbles do go away, just like they did on your car.
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