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If you're going to spout about who stole what from whom, you might as well get the story straight.
In 1970, Xerox opened the Xerox PARC (Xerox Palo Alto Research Center) research facility. The facility developed upon many modern computing methods such as the mouse and graphical user interface to create the paperless office. From these inventions, Xerox PARC created the Xerox Alto in 1973, a small minicomputer similar to a workstation and personal computer. The Alto was never commercially sold, as Xerox itself could not see the sales potential of it. In 1979, several Apple Computer employees visited Xerox PARC, interested in seeing their developments, including Steve Jobs. Jobs, and the other Apple employees, saw the commercial potential of the GUI and mouse, and began development of the Apple Lisa, which was eventually introduced in 1983 for US$10,000. It was a commercial failure.
The Xerox Alto workstation was developed at Xerox PARC.Xerox later released a similar system to the Alto, the Xerox Star in 1981 as a workstation. It was the first commercial system to incorporate various technologies that today have become commonplace in personal computers, including a bit-mapped display, a window-based GUI, mouse, Ethernet networking, file servers, print servers and e-mail. The Xerox Star, despite its technological breakthroughs, did not sell well due to its high price, costing $16,000 per unit. A typical Xerox Star-based office would have cost $100,000.
In the mid 80s, Apple considered buying Xerox out, however a deal was never reached. Apple attempted to adapt the graphical user interface and mouse to a more affordable personal computer, aimed towards the business and education markets. The Apple Macintosh was released in 1984, and was the first personal computer to popularize the GUI and mouse amongst the public, released with the 1984 Superbowl commercial. In the late 1980s, Xerox sued Apple over their use of the graphical user interface. The Xerox case was dismissed because the three year statute of limitations had passed -- Xerox had waited too long to file a suit.
-------------------- Mike O'Neill
It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value. - Arthur C. Clarke
posted
There was a tv movie called The Pirates of Silicon Valley or close to that which pretty much says what Mike just did. Thieves on both sides. Neither Gates or Jobs came out looking good.
-------------------- Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Posts: 2785 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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posted
Because I am a Mac geek employed full time setting up servers and troubleshooting network and configuration issues for local schools in southwest Ohio, my wife insisted that I read and comment on this thread. I grew up with DOS and Windows 3.1, etc. I found that using windoze I was an average user, if any problems came up I was stumped. I wrote a couple of simple programs in BASIC and that was about it. When I switched to Mac about eight years ago, I was pleasantly surprised when "I got it". If something didn't work right, I felt like I could tackle it and get it working. I was also surprised to be working with an OS (7.6.1) that was even then years old, but already had features that Windows 95 and Windows 98 were just adding to their feature set, and selling them as "new". I haven't looked back since.
When I read the news about BootCamp allowing windoze to run on Mac, my first reaction was "Why?'. Why would I want to run windoze on my Mac? I don't. I like Mac for the OS.
After reading through all of the posts I can only add my opinion to reaffirm a few things. Flame me if you want, it doesn't bother me, I like Mac OS, plain and simple.
I don't think anyone actually answered the original post with confirmation that they were running Flexi and other windoze apps using BootCamp or Parallels. So it's all opinion, if you look at the benchmarks available so far, Windows XP on a Mac with Intel processors using BootCamp runs as well or better than a top of the line Dell. Benchmarks for the same apps under Parallels are not quite as high, but are still very acceptable to most people. Dave answered the two basic options very well.
To Bill, there is an option being developed for running a CNC unit from a Macintosh by Sea Gull Technologies http://www.sea-gull.demon.co.uk/cnc.htm I have no idea if it is comparable to what is available on the other platforms.
To Jon, keep on slingin' the stuff. I love to read the arguments thrown around in the Mac versus Windows wars. They're always good for a laugh or two.
As far as available software. My opinion is that as long as it works for you, who cares. I do agree that there is less available for Mac. But I also think that just because there is more available for windoze doesn't mean a thing. If you have ten options and nine of them are crap. What are you left with? One that works.
Because the market is smaller for Mac applications, Mac developers don't have time to develop as much crap. So while you may only have three choices in Mac software, the chances are pretty good that none of them are as crappy as the five worse choices in the windoze world.
To Joe Diaz, I have to agree with Dave. Don't blame the mis-configuration of your previous employers XServe RAID on Apple. Blame the guy who "claimed" to know what he was doing when he set it up. I have setup 40+ Xserve and OS X Servers in the past few years and I am still honest enough to tell you to call a RAID expert if you want RAID setup properly. If all you need is a server to provide services to both Mac and Windoze clients on a network then OS X Server is far easier to setup, configure and maintain than anything Microsoft has to offer.
To David Fisher or anyone thinking about going the Linux route. Be prepared to really enter the kingdom of geeks and nerds. Trying to keep up with the nightly builds and various flavors of *NIX and their different bugs and quirks will drive a crazy man sane. With OS X you get the security and stability of UNIX with a sharp GUI interface to keep it relatively simple.
Thanks to Mike O'Neill for the history lesson. I once heard someone say "There is no such thing as a new idea. That doesn't mean we don't try to find a new way to do something." If it's a good idea, there is nothing wrong with trying to do it a different way.
Ironically Dave Sherby, I had a friend just tell me he needed Virtual PC to run some bowling league secretary software on his Mac (a PPC, so Parallels or BootCamp are not available options). What really makes it ironic to me is that in my windoze days I managed two bowling centers and thought that most of the software available was crap, but never took the time to try to write an improvement. Just might be time to put together a MacBowling League Secretary application. ;-)
posted
Hey Rick, welcome to the board. You sound pretty levelheaded, so you may not fit in too well around here! Hehe. I really only use a few programs on my PC and I'm sure I could find suitable replacements if I decided to switch to Mac, other than maybe Quickbooks.
That doesn't keep me from goading my Mac friends though...
Your right about Linux also. I decided to build a Linux box to use as a external firewall on my network here, but I finally tired of fiddling with it and *OH HORRORS* loaded Windows Server 2003 on it instead and now use it as a server.
Again welcome, and good luck in the Windows/Mac fight... you may want to work on your WPS (wadded panty syndrome) though, you seem a little laid-back for a Mac guy. Bawhwhahahaahh.
-------------------- Jon Jantz Snappysign.com jjantz21@gmail.com http://www.allcw.com Posts: 3395 | From: Atmore, AL | Registered: Nov 2005
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Rick, Great reply! You brought up some great, “levelheaded” points. Every one here has brought up some good points.
quote: There is no such thing as a new idea. That doesn't mean we don't try to find a new way to do something. If it's a good idea, there is nothing wrong with trying to do it a different way.
That’s basically what I was trying to say in a round about way. You just came up with a much better way of saying it.
And back to my point about the X Serve Raid. One of the hard drives did fail. Which happens I know. Hardware CAN fail even in an apple. That really wasn’t the problem. The problem was we couldn’t find any GOOD tech support for the thing. There isn’t near the numbers of apple techies as there is PC techies around here. I can fix about anything that goes wrong with a PC, software or hardware. In fact I don’t really ever have any problems on my system. Mainly because I know how to safeguard and maintain my pc and because I built it, so I know the ins and the outs of the machine. It doesn’t seem there are a lot of people that can fix apples, at least there isn’t around here. There just isn’t much of a need for it because more people run PCs.
I really do think that is one of the appeals with Apples. Less people own Apples their for if you do own one that makes you feel unique. I’m not saying that this applies to everyone, but I know it does to some.
[ August 31, 2006, 10:18 AM: Message edited by: Joseph Diaz ]
-------------------- Joe Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, IL 61764 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 538 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Aug 2005
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Now that this thread has run its course. And is ending on a good tone.. LEts talk about it
I have worked on computers ever since there was an IBM 360, punchcards and winchester drives.. Remember them days?
What makes a MAC a MAC? First Lets ask,, What is a MAC today. And is it really a better built machine? Well, Some say the "true" Mac has been dead ever since the switch to the PowerPC platform in 1994. Look at the numerous changes MACs made going into using industry-standard (PC style) components. IE:
For add on components.. MAC used to have NuBus cards,, MAC now has the PCI family and AGP. MAC used to have LocalTalk but now runs Ethernet. Used to run ADB but now uses USB. And, remember the old slow but very expensive MAC SCSI days even though their SCSI wasn't the best around? Well MAC now runs the same SATA components as a PC. Monitors,, I remember workin on MAC (apple) monitors that were very high end but the only dif was the plugs on the end. They parts wise were identical to the lower priced monitors made for PC. We used to trade parts in and out of dead PC and apple monitors all the time.. Remember the old days when the flyback transformers would go out? In fact Kentitec monitors were about half the price of the MAC but were exactly the same parts used in the MAC monitor. (If can name remember the manufactures name right)
PC's use off the shelf Seagate, Maxtore etc. hard drives and so does a MAC. PC's use off the shelf Video cards modems speakers systems and so does a MAC.
Now for the OPerating system. Does that count towards making a MAC what it is? No because MACs do not use the OLDER OS code any more. Now OSX is pure unix that EMULATES the older apple benefits that made so many MAC users love their machines.
And, finally now that the power PC is dead. What is in store for the MAC user in the near future. Well,, are MAC users goona buy that new machine (G5 power pc) they want knowing that in a short while something else is comming out? Will MAC users purchase a new box out of loyalty or will they not buy waiting for the new machine? Are we in last days of a user purchasing a Power PC? Yes,, they are dead as a product.. How long will the MAC suers wait for the NEW machine to hit the streets?
How about software. Are developers writing stuff for the power PC/ Nope.. are they focusing on updates? nope.. They are working on that new software for the new Intel machine.
And finally who will wish to pay the cross over fees for their MAC software to upgrade to MACTEL?
So, given that MACs are using the very same components manufactured by the very same companies who make parts for PC's, how can they be better built? And, Given that MACs are dropping the POWER PC line,, Will there be a new MAC soon that operates a windows OS with out a bridge? Yes.. Many say it is here now today..
Is a MAC goona be around in 3 years? Yes and no,, IT will have a MAC name on it.. But it will have the very same components,, and it will have the very same OS (winders) in it OR/AND have the ability to operate OSX alonside it.
So, what makes it a MAC. Well its the loyal users who love the machine and what it stands for who make it a MAC. And that in itself is enough for many to take second and third looks at possibly getting a MAC.. I know,, that passion that inspired myself to look at a MAC more times than I can count...
So, In the end. MAC lovers will keep their passion for a great machine. Some day they may whistfully dream for the good ol' days of a REAL MAC.. While PC's users will dream about the old days when they Could HAVE owned a real MAC and regret not getting one..
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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