posted
Yep, that is the question. Say, a sign-maker(painter, vinyl jockey, striper, airbrush artist, etc.) has a shop near you, maybe an hour or two away, are you friendly to them? Would you be friendly if they walked in your door to see you?
Another question, what is a Letterhead? Does the definiton include the fact that we help each other out, share knowledge, & continue our trade through others who carry it on after we are gone?
I also want to thank ANYone who was kind enough to take the time to help me, or accept my phone calls, & anyone who has responded to my emails. Thanks to you all! THAT is a Letterhead to me!
posted
I like pat whatley, and a larger sign company that does alot of work with me. and I know the other guys but we dont be hanging out or nothing.
Pat taught me flexisign and plottering and stuff. i really owe him. Ill get him 6 pack or something
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
posted
Well, there is this signgal from Jamestown who stopped in one day. She even called first to give me a heads-up. We had a nice little visit. When I first got divorced I drove around to all the local shops, seeing if they needed employees. Nearly everyone I met was great, except for one guy who was a real diva.
When I found out about the Letterheads I went to a few more shops...nobody cared. One guy who owned a print shop looked at me like I had a third eye or something.
When I started hosting meets, I invited the locals to stop by. Only one, Signs by Rick, did. I still send them all Christmas cards. Sometimes I'll call Rick if I need a piece of vinyl. He'll stop in sometimes to tell me a dirty Nun joke.
Last year at the Jamboree I was thrilled when Emlenton's Doug Elder stopped by! His signs are stellar examples of hand-painting.
But for the most part, people around here don't see me as a Letterhead....just a competitor. I do see a few folks at the Pioneer show every year, and they are nice to me.
love....jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
Yep...Friendly with all the local shops here. If I need some vinyl in a hurry and the suppliers don't have any, I can always call them, and vice versa.
I use one particular shop for backlit sign installs, since they have a crane and bucket truck.
Hell, I'm even friends with that Ken Henry guy!!!
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
The dozen or so shops in Toowoomba (pop: 100,000) seem to all get along reall well with each other.
We often help each other out. If you run out of, or need something you know will take a while to get freighted up from Brisbane, it's not hard to find one who will sell or even lend you some to get you by in a hurry. I've even provided customer's logos to a "competitor" when I was not in a position to do the job myself.
In fact the other day I was across town doing a vinyl instal on a tanker and "Murphy's Law" struck. Just finishing, I realised I had lost the "dot" off one of the "i"s. Of course I had forgotten to bring the scrap vinyl pack we carry in the van for such emergencies. It was a 30 minute round trip back to my shop to get a 1/2" square of white vinyl!
Just around the corner from where I was working was a "vinyl jockey" I hadn't spoken to in years. Not only did he gladly give me a scrap of vinyl but even offered to cut it for me!
"Do unto others" ... it always comes back at you one day.
posted
Donna owns the closest shop to me... about a block away... and we are good friends. The Gidneys own a shop in town and we are good friends too.
I drop in to some of the other shops in town occasionally although they have never returned the favor.
Donna and the Gidneys were at the Picnic and both helped out too which was very much appreciated.
Any Letterhead is welcome in my shop... no secrets here. I'll help them out any way I can. I'm proud to call them friend.
-grampa dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8738 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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I get along well with all the shops around here. We constantly send each other work and bail each other out of jams.
The local FastSIGNS franchisee and I are on very good terms. We did a major monument sign project together and both made good money on the job. Much of the time, I was dealing directly with his customer but he knows I won't go behind his back and take him away.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5084 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
It depends... We try to be nice to everyone, but there are limits! We have one guy who only calls us when he wants something (like the vinyl he forgot to order). A couple places are users...people that say, "What's in it for me?" "Buy this from me." "Help me, so I can do this but forget it if YOU need something!" "Me, Me, Me". Doesn't take long to figure them out. We had to take one guy to court to get paid! But pretty much every sign guy in the area has been stung by him. We have a new guy, just opened up about three blocks away, who does sound & security systems with a vinyl cutter in the back room. He's been in a couple times and it is REAL obvious he is price shopping. "How much if you were to do this?" Never orders anything. I'm sure he is just telling people "Those Diazes will charge___, but I will do it for ___." That's O.K. He can be as cheap as he wants...I will send "cheap" people to him! He can have 'em! But honestly the majority of the sign people around here are wonderful! We have a young guy about 10 miles away who we really enjoy spending time with...fair, honest and a hard worker. He started by learning hand lettering first and he now has a plotter. We have several large shops in the area who do the big, highway illuminated stuff. We refer jobs to other shops that do things we don't do all the time. We refuse to underbid other shops and have had a few customers try to bring in others' sketches. We refuse to even look at them. We will bid, but not copy or even look at other sign shops' bids.
So there you go. I think you get what you give! We might lose some work by trying to be good guys, but oh well! I just don't see what is accomplished by being mean and not helping people who try to be friendly and ethical towards us. But again, I may forgive, but I seldom forget!
[ August 16, 2006, 05:57 PM: Message edited by: Jane Diaz ]
-------------------- Jane Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, Il. 61764 815-844-7024 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 4102 | From: Pontiac, IL USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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We seem to all get along for the most part. I've watched many of the jerk owners fold up. Guess it pays to be nice. I get a lot of referral business for sandblasted dimensional work from local shops who don't do this type of thing. In return, I send them people for things we don't really do here. I even had a competitor cut me some vinyl once when my plotter broke and then I took them some rolls of vinyl that I never used.
-------------------- Amy Brown Life Skills 101 Private Address Posts: 3502 | From: Lake Helen, FL, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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Heck, one of my "competitors" (husband and wife team) invited me to go on a cruise with a bunch of their family and friends!
I buy a lot of my vinyl from them, they're a Neschen distributor. I call 'em up a couple times a week when I need material and joke "Hey I have some lunch money for you guys today!"
There's another local shop, another husband and wife team that are actually registered on this very bullboard but don't post much, that I'm on friendly terms with. We don't hang out and all that but they've helped me out and they're welcome to call me if they ever need anything.
Another guy used to be one of my customers. He owned a car/truck customizing shop and added vinyl equipment but he's since dropped the customizing because the market here for that is non-existant. He kept the vinyl equipment though. I don't see him often but we're friendly. I've helped him out with design and installs and he's helped me with truck projects in the past.
The other couple shops I used to be on good terms but they've both changed hands several times over and now they're both owned by total DINKS. I mean, I go in to either of them and introduce myself then want to spend money with them for services I don't do, and get treated like I have a boob growing out of my forehead.
Man, if they treat their other customers like they treated me it's a wonder they can stay in business.... or maybe the fact they change hands so often is a good indicator they can't.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
Nearby as in the same county, no we're not friendly. But Mark & Al are in adjoining counties, Jill & Gary are both 2 counties away & they're all invited to stop in any time. Mark's cut stuff for me before, met up with Al for dinner, Jill knows I'm a phone call away & I've popped in Gary's when I was up there ancestring.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Well, there's probably a couple hundred sign shops within an hour, so I don't know a fraction of them. The ones I've delt with have been good for the most part. We very seldom compete with any of them. We are pretty specialized and have an excellent client base and reputation in the community. We actually do contract work for quite a few sign businesses and sell our standoff line to many more. I'm willing to help out if someone phones me for advice about signs. We also provide students enrolled in the local Sign Art Program with a position when they are completing the work experience portion of the program. As well, I am on the Sign Arts Program Advisory Committee where I work with others in the Sign industry in adapting the curriculum to todays methods. We are also members of the Alberta Sign Association. I really enjoy interaction with local sign industry people.
posted
A buddy down the road has a vinyl shop, and we've been helping each other out for several years. When we had our meet this summer, he was in there like a dirty shirt, and got really turned on to all the possibilities... now he's painting, ordered up a bunch of carving tools, designed a new logo and has a whole new perspective on the business. I see a great deal more collaboration in our future and I welcome it. Oh yeah, he's also become a resident! Letterheads rock! MUR
-------------------- Murray MacDonald OldTime Signs 529 Third Ave S Kenora, ON. P9N 1Y3 oldtimesigns@gokenora.com Posts: 781 | From: Kenora, ON | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
When I first started in the business 18-19 years ago, I contacted many of the sign shops within the area...They were all standoffish. I even had threatening calls form a few ( quite hurtfull), but then I discovered letterheads & was quite unsure about going to a meet because of what happened in the past, but in 1998 Larry Whan of Banff Signs held a meet and through phone conversations with him ,We finally went...The best thing I'd ever done to advance my business and discover others with the same passion. Met several great people now good friend at that meet, fellow Saskatchewanite Suelynn Sedor, Bill Riedel, Grampa Dan, and many more... We've been to many meets since, and have held a few of our own in which we have invited the shops who handed out the verbal abuse, but they have never shown up...All I can say is, thier lose.
-------------------- Pat Welter Masterhand Signs and Designs Unity, Saskatchewan.Canada Posts: 1304 | From: Unity, Saskatchewan.Canada | Registered: May 1999
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I had to leave, then came back to read all of these. This is great!
Jilly, I will have to come & bug you again sometime, you were so gracious & sweet!
And thank you very much, Mark, I truly needed to hear that. Coming from you, it just feels so good! I have so much respect for you.
There is a young fella that posts on here now & then, & he is only about 30-40 minutes away, & he is one good guy, Ryan Ursta. He has welcomed me to stop in, & I never have taken the time to. I think I may have to do that real soon here!
One guy across the lake from me, maybe 10 minutes away, used to be nasty to me because when I first started I was underbidding him, & I HONESTLY did not mean to! I began to ask prices for this & that & put mine up there with the other guys, so I would not do that. Believe me, I WANTED to ask more, but didn't know what things went for at the time! Saw him at the supplier one day & he was still nasty, asking me if I was still giving my work away. I tried to tell him no, I had learned, but he didn't want to hear it. It hurt. I had liked him.
-------------------- The Word in Signs Bobbie Rochow Jamestown, PA 16134
724-927-6471
thewordinsigns@alltel.net Posts: 3485 | From: Jamestown, PA 16134 | Registered: Oct 2002
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posted
I'm about to get a lot friendlier with them. They'll all be so happy when I send them all the copies of all the bootleg programs I can find. I'm sure they'll all talk about what a great guy I am right up until I turn them in for the reward money.
-------------------- Pat Whatley Montgomery, AL (334) 262-7446 office (334) 324-8465 cell Posts: 1306 | From: Wetumpka, AL USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
I used to be friendly with Ron 'til he brought up the Bubba Burgers...
Most of the other sign shops around here are on good terms. We have a statewide sign association and I've met nearly every member, many who are great folks and very giving.
What is a Letterhead... Anyone with a passion for making signs. I've met a lot of sign makers who have never heard of Letterheads, but they sure fit the bill. They love their work, are willing to share and pass on their knowledge and craft.
Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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Ah, but Ray, the real question is...are they still a Letterhead if they are selfish with their knowledge & will not share & help others to learn?
-------------------- The Word in Signs Bobbie Rochow Jamestown, PA 16134
724-927-6471
thewordinsigns@alltel.net Posts: 3485 | From: Jamestown, PA 16134 | Registered: Oct 2002
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posted
I love everyone and will help anyone as well, just don't lie, cheat or steal from me. I've visited many sign people and stripers throughout my travels and have always been an honest guy with all of them. Still some just don't get it. Had a conversation 2 days ago with a retired street rod builder and striper person from San Jose who retired here, speaking with him was rediculous and boring as his first words after my introduction was ' why did you really call me, it went downhill from there real fast. Most others welcome me, I've visited Rick Sacks, the Purcells and many more and we just had a grand ol'time.
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
posted
I am not only 'friendly' with as many as a dozen shops in the area, I am also 'friends' with a few. in the next town over there are 3 shops i talk to regularly, we call each other to borrow supplies or a few feet of vinyl and talk shop. It seems I am some what of a go-to-guy for some of them, I also do some sub-contracting for them, doing airbrush and gold leaf work. I sub out the print work and electrical stuff to them. Hosting / co-hosting Mass Mayhem has helped develop relationships with other "Letterheads" who may live down in RI or up in NH but still are some of the best friends you could want. People like the Peaches, the Z's Karyn, Caroline, Rapid, Gary Cole, Jerome, Fearon, Burris and a few others, have made it to Mass Mayhem every time, a strong relationship develops over those 6+ years, you look forward to seeing them again, you can't wait to show them some new technique and see what the hell the peaches are coming up with next (they are always so innovative). To me thats what Letterheads is, its not only sharing tips and shop talk, but a special friendship that, through the craft, forms a bond like a family. its a bit difficult to explain any of you that have seen me and Jay Zee together might think we are brothers, and I look to his dad Mike almost like my dad. Karyn is kinda like the weird cousin up north!
[ August 17, 2006, 09:30 AM: Message edited by: captain ken ]
-------------------- Ken McTague, Concept Signs 57 Bridge St. (route 107) Salem MA 01970 1-978-745-5800 conceptsign@yahoo.com http://www.pinheadlounge.com/CaptainKen
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"A wise man once said that, or was it a wise guy?" Posts: 2425 | From: Salem, MA | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
ditto to Bushie's statement. I can & do call up any of half a dozen signies for a lead on some bit of installation equipment or something I'm after, or I send a bit of work their way at times when I can't fit it in our timetable.
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
There's a sign guy named Ken one city over that I keep dodging, but other than that I like all the local sign people. (just kidding, Ken) I plan on coming up to see you tomorrow. Thanks for the reminder. I do a lot of wall painting stuff so I like to get in with the quicky sticky shops around town so they call me when something like that comes walking in their door and they don't know what to do. There's plenty of business to go around , so I don't see why anyone would be nasty with a fellow sign guy or gal unless they deserved it for some other reason, ya dig?
posted
I get along with most of the local shops. Christy of Christy's Signs and I have ordered MDO and other materials together. A couple of other shops do installations for me. I order digital prints from a couple of other shops but there are a couple of shops I avoid. As for a letterhead just stopping by...I've had Dave Grundy and Shirl, RT and Darren,Steve & Barb, and Shelia come for a visit. But as for locals..only Christy visits me regularly.
-------------------- Judy Pate Signs By Judy Albany, Georgia USA 229-435-6824
Live simply...Love generously...Care deeply...Speak kindly...Leave the rest to God. Posts: 2621 | From: Albany,GA,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
In a small community that generates enough work for one shop to stay busy, sometimes it gets difficult when folks open a new shop and have very little committment. They'll leave after the summer busy time and move elsewhere after lowballing some jobs from my long time customers. Makes it embarassing for the customer to come back and for me if they do also.
I also have found customers embarassed when they come in and find me chatting with my visiting competitor that they left to come to me for.
I chat with the competition when we meet in the lumber yard, but stay out of their shope and don't invite them to mine other than for social events and Letterhead meets.
Even when I go several towns away and go into a sign shop far away enough to not be a competitior and see them doing work for someone near me, I find that difficult. I need to ponder why didn't they come to me? and if I see them in public and the opportunity arrises should I ask them why? There are emotions that underly the business stuff that are real that initiate self evaluation, healthy sometimes, destructive at others.
So in answer to your querry, I'm friendly from what seems a healthy distance.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6712 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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As a policy, I don't fraternize with other sign people here; it's just not good business. I tried it about 20 years ago; I invited some newbies to my shop where Al Grand did a gold leaf demo. I loaned them books and did demos and answered questions they had. One of them that had a shop in the town next to us took out a big ad in MY phone book and stabbed me in the back at every opportunity. I even caught them price shopping me!!!
If you can trust your competitors and even work together sometimes that's a good thing. I tried but it just doesn't work for me here.
[ August 17, 2006, 09:38 AM: Message edited by: Ricky Jackson ]
-------------------- Ricky Jackson Signs Now 614 Russell Parkway Warner Robins, GA (478) 923-7722 signpimp50@hotmail.com
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Issac Newton Posts: 3528 | From: Warner Robins, GA | Registered: Oct 2004
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That is so awful Ricky to have to put up with that. I can understand where you are coming from.
Rick, I understand what you are saying, too. It DOES hurt to see my competitor get a customer who was always mine. But you know what helps me? I keep insisting to myself that if I was to have the job, the Lord would have given it to me. Oh yes, I still get the initial stab in the gut, but I remind myself until I get it in my head & my heart. Sometimes this takes alot of repeating too!
Joey, you can drive out to Jamestown PA & teach me some pointers any day!!!!!!! I will welcome you with open arms & fists full of brushes! Lol!
-------------------- The Word in Signs Bobbie Rochow Jamestown, PA 16134
724-927-6471
thewordinsigns@alltel.net Posts: 3485 | From: Jamestown, PA 16134 | Registered: Oct 2002
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There are about 7 shops within a 5 mile radius of us and One Shop "Colorado Sign Systems" we get along great with. He actually does all my installs now and I do all his vinyl and many of his designs. A couple of shops we are friendly competitors but like Rick we just keep a friendly distance.
Then there are other shops that I just don't care to talk to or deal with at all.
Now with shops that are out of town I get along with great and we actually call and just biatch about each other (In a friendly way) and ask each other about what's happening in each others neck of the woods.
I will invite all the locals shops out of courtesy once we move and get ready to have a Letterhead/Routerhead/Goldhead Meet in a year or so.
posted
This post reminds me of a story I once heard about a poor Rattlesnake that was so cold. He was just about dead from the cold when alongs comes a mother opossum. The snake talks the opossum into letting him warm up in her pouch. She's hesitant but finally gives in to the snake's pleas for help. After the snake gets nice and warm inside the opossum's pouch he bites the opossum. The opossum crys out and asks why he bit her after she had shown him kindness. The rattlesnake replied, "Yes, you were kind to me, but you still knew that I was a snake."
-------------------- Frisby Signs, Inc. El Dorado, Arkansas Posts: 902 | From: El Dorado, Arkansas, USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
I admit to some reservations about info sharing with local sign companies....As a rule we have all been friends (at least the ones I know) etc but in the last few years I see a few of them who want to kick my but...and I can't blame them. I do sort of have a lock on all the local pubs etc and technology has changed the market. A few weeks ago my sign installer brought me a foto of a pub in town I once did a sign for(another location)...the new one was my work exactly...all the flourishes etc..just not mine. It did seem a bit static as the job didn't suit the space but hell, there it was. In a way I get peeved about that sort of unoriginality but I don't really blame the other shop...It's my fault that I wasn't able to satisfy the client enuf that he chose another business.
posted
I had one nearby sign shop that the dude was friendly to my face... needing to borrow a roll of pre-mask or vinyl all the time.
But when he'd see my helper at the Sign Supply house, he's say in front of all the folks there: "Oh you work for Nappy Signs.." Every now and then he'd vary his humor with "Crappy Signs."
Well, I told my helper not to worry about it, we'd rent the Billboard that towered over his store and plaster our logo on it, and see how he liked that.. Unfortunately he went out of business before the billboard became available.
I feel bad for him... hahahahahahahahahaha.
-------------------- Jon Jantz Snappysign.com jjantz21@gmail.com http://www.allcw.com Posts: 3395 | From: Atmore, AL | Registered: Nov 2005
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