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Today I pinstriped a Chevy Tahoe, the base color of the vehicle was a light green, the color of forestry vehicles. I mixed up two colors, a green and a grey to match the interior. All I used in the grey was shading black and lettering white both 1Shot. I brushed on the green no problem but when I brushed on the grey it turned a lighter shade of purple and not even close to lavender, I could'nt believe it. The owner was standing right there in dis-belief as well. I was awaiting the arrival of Jeff Crank and His friend Cat another sign painter and was passing time striping this here chevy for a friend. When Jeff arrived he said nice color combo and showed him the grey I mixed up, he laid out a few scrolls with both colors and was shocked.
I mix colors daily and this stumped me, whats your take?
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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Some (all?) colours can appear different at times, depending on lighting & background colour. There was a thread a year or two back about an illusion with a chessboard and two squares were actually the same colour (just do a sample in P'shop), yet in the picture one looked whitish, and one blackish- it all depends on the surrounds.
Usually though it's a tonal shift, not a colour change, but some colours can take on a 'negative' shade (the complimentary colour).
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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Joey.....remember when 'lime yellow' was all the rage for fire trucks and emergency vehicles? About drove me crazy! Nothing looked right! The 1st time was using 1Shot Imitation Gold and as yo looked at it ...it would change to orange. It was because your eye was trying to see a yellow backgrond, ignoring the greenish tint, and shifted the color. If you covered the background, the color was correct.
Question, does it look purple if you brush it onto a white or black background, how about on a red?
-------------------- Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA
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Brushasaurus on Chat Posts: 8831 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Optical dillusion caused by a vicious incidence of under-color osmossis. I must have seen this a thousand times. In other words -- I don't have a clue.
-------------------- Bill Diaz Diaz Sign Art Pontiac IL www.diazsignart.com Posts: 2107 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Dec 2001
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It had to be the forestry green that changed the color because I palette on white 70lb glossy and it was grey there. Like I said I made the grey using shading black and white. My shop has a 14 foot high ceiling and 3 foot round sodium day lighters for light, I thought going outside would certainly change it back to grey but Nooo it stayed purple or dark violet.
Something finally stumped me, who would have thought
When I reach my shop I'll know for sure.
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
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Joey...It happened to me in Mazeppa at the Winter Muster several years ago. I was doing a panel that Pat Neve has in his possession, and mixed a grey using white and black(shading black) to paint a background around a shape.It dried with a red hue.Frank Manning and I put pour heads together and finally mixed another grey, but I had to tint to green. I thought I was seeing things. I attributed the problem to the surrounding colors, but my past experience had not prepared me for what I saw, and I'm still not sure what happened there.
Bill's explanation is as good as any.
-------------------- Jeff Ogden 8727 NE 68 Terr. Gainesville FL, 32609 Posts: 2138 | From: 8827 NE 68 Terr Gainesville Fl 32609 | Registered: Aug 2002
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Thank you Jeff as I could understand the surrounding color routine and do attribute the change to the base color.
But on the other hand I could never put my head together with a non painter and ask questions they haven't anything to do with them.
A similar route was when Magoo told me that when he spoke with the UltraSonic people and they told him only to use water in the ultrasonic and a second cup filled with thinner to clean the brushes. My suspicions came true and I realized that persons who represent companies got their heads so far up their kazoo that they are so wrapped up in BS that they couldn't possibly know zilch to put it mildly.
My questions are legitimate and look towards persons who at least have something in common with me knowing full right that reps from companies only know what the company tells them and not what their chemist says.
I'm blown away today and will only alienate persons further away from my idiosyncrasies by finding the absolute truth.
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
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Just for the hell of it, I would break the shading black down (thinners) and check it out with a magnifying glass in the sunlight. That might show some trace of purple. I remember when doing stripe repairs seeing colors go haywire once in a while when using shading black.
Jack
-------------------- Jack Wills Studio Design Works 1465 E.Hidalgo Circle Nye Beach / Newport, OR Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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With what little time I have in here, let me give forth my perspective on this....it's the white!!! If one was to breakdown the white, you will find offending color in it's makeup, a touch of brilliant blue will change that to look white, two touches will make it blue...
To further show how colors warp, put blue on red, you can't focus on division line as it tends to blur, creating what I call visual static, though if you put a drop of white on spot where colors intersect, viola! you can now see division plainly.....
-------------------- Frank Magoo, Magoo's-Las Vegas; fmagoo@netzero.com "the only easy day was yesterday" Posts: 2365 | From: Las Vegas, Nv. | Registered: Jun 2003
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What's really happening here is a battle of the Simultaneous Contrasts.
There is no magic here. It's all done by the numbers. You don't need to know them, but just know that they do exist.
All colors have an opposite hue which they project on adjacent colors. Some times it's not that noticeable & other times it is. As Ian said, a latent image of the color's compliment is causing this occurance.
The Green vehicle is the overwhelming dominant color here. It is projecting upon the grey stripe a complimentary tint of purple.
So, in order to correct this (next time), it might be conceivable to mix a little purple in with the grey before brushing it on. That may counter-act the virtual color image that resulted. Or, will that make it worse? (or would a little green be better - it's one or the other)
Got any pics?
Editted in: Replace any mention of pure purple above with the color of a reddish-purple, or a purplish-red. That's what I meant to say but for some unknown reason said purple. I'll let it go at that unless you think it needs further explanation. I forgot you all use a 3-primary system.
[ June 12, 2006, 04:25 PM: Message edited by: Bill Cosharek ]
-------------------- Bill Cosharek Bill Cosharek Signs N.Huntingdon,Pa
bcosharek@juno.com Posts: 703 | From: N.Huntingdon, Pa, USA | Registered: Dec 1999
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Frank, sure I know the blue on red buzz and was positive that if I added blue to the mix it would have turned grey but I was herbalized as well as mesmerized while striping and figured the color looked well enough to tranfer this Forestry truck into a private party vehicle as soon as Jeff put the scroll work down. Thank you so much for your expertise
Bill, I thank you also as the purple would have acted just as the blue would but blue was my first choice. I take photos of around 20% of my work and this wasn't in that percentage as it was just another stripe job and meant nothing to me.
posted
Hi Joey. Bill is correct in that what you've experienced is a "complimentary bounce". The grey that you mixed up really doesn't contain any smidgeon of purple....you know that for a fact. What's happening is that your own eyesight is tricking you into believing that you are seeing a hint of purple ( complimentary colour to the green background ) This phenomenon was widely used by, and was the basis for the French Impressionist painters. They deliberately used complimentary colours to achieve an "impression" of what they wanted you to see. Here's a link that'll illustrate that effect:
If you use your back button to zoom in and out, you'll see that the complimentary colours used by the artist do give a distinct impression of the subject matter, but on close-up examination, many of those colours making up the painting are actually complimentaries, and your own eyesight provides the "mix" to complete their illusion.
Yory grey that you mixed IS GREY. There isn't any lavender, purple, lilac, or any other colour there. Just your very own eyes deceiving you into thinking that you're seeing what isn't there.
-------------------- Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com
Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ? Posts: 2684 | From: London,Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 1999
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Hey Ken, Thanks for that piece on Impressionists. Renoir, was the absolute best and a favorite that I did study.
Jack
-------------------- Jack Wills Studio Design Works 1465 E.Hidalgo Circle Nye Beach / Newport, OR Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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This is a basic color theory issue called Saturation. the grey picks up the complimentary color visually.. a solution would be to put some green in the grey to defuse this issue.
Simular thing happened with a Faux Painting job i Did with Blue Green Background and sponge painted a pattern in White...the same paint i used for the trim and it looks PINK...lucky for me it was one of those plesent surprizes and the pattern was a rose pattern. in some cases this can be used to your advantage.
the study of color is also the study of relationship. How i react to you may be different than how i reack to another person based on the caraturistics(sp).
also there is GRAY that is mixed with black and white and then there is GREY that is mixed from complimentary colors and white.
in paint white is the absent of no color and black is the present of all color. in light it is opposit.
chris
P.S. i know i cant spell much!!! only 3rd grade edukation
-------------------- "We have been making house calls since 1992"
Chris Lovelady Vital Signs
NOW WITH 2 LOCATIONS! Tallahassee, Florida Thomasville, Ga.
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Actually red is green's compliment. You could see a red violet as the compliment to yellow green if that theory is what's happening. Red violet is the split complimentary color to straight green.
But then again it could be your brain's just messin' with ya. My brain has been messin' with me for some time now. Those paint fumes add up don't ya know.
That was a kewl thing you came up with, Elaine. That totally messed with me. Now I'm going to have to go home and rest. Good thing its quittin' time.
-------------------- Bill Diaz Diaz Sign Art Pontiac IL www.diazsignart.com Posts: 2107 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Dec 2001
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Well thank you folks for all the information for I must be the American version of the french impressionist because I do this type of complimently color schemes daily and only for coverage. I was stumped though for a while before I figured this out with everysone help of course.
Mike brought his Tahoe back today and I added blue to the grey and it turned grey on the vehicle so I added some grey to it.
I guess it was just this particular color that stumped me as the vehicles I normally do are factory, candies or pearlescents.
I thank you again.
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
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Actually, Everybody is close to what happened. Color theory and simultanious contrast of color saturation. Ok, Ok.........a few drinks and every color changes.
-------------------- Greg DePauw Art Rod Foundation 206 S. Davenport Metamora,IL. 61548 (309)-367-4496 Posts: 52 | From: Metamora, Illinois. USA | Registered: Jun 2006
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