posted
I am a long standing member of the NAIT Graphic Sign Arts Program Advisory Committee. I, as well as my other Committee colleagues, were recently summoned to an urgent meeting . Our sign arts program is one of a kind in Canada and few in North America. When I graduated in 1973 the program was known as Commercial Signwriting. Over the years the highly competent program staff along with input from local sign industry leaders, have evolved the curriculum to meet the needs of our ever changing industry. After decades of always having too many applicants to fill the 20 or so intake positions, we have a crisis. Our province is in the midst of a sustained economic "boom", with no end in sight. Labour is desperately in short supply in all areas. As a result prospective sign arts students are being lurred away by other very lucrative job opportunities. Although the Sign Program has been very successful, spanning many decades, the College is under extreme pressure to train people to feed the economic engine that is Alberta. In an empassioned presentation to us, the Dean of the Program urged us to offer any ideas we could to encourage prospective students to enroll in the program or ultimately face it's cancellation. Clearly, if it is cancelled, it will unlikely ever be re-instated. When I was in the program, most of the content of course, was hand lettering technique and drawing. Now the program is very different as mirrored in our ever changing industry. This is the current curriculum... Graphic Sign Arts Program And a link to there website... Nait Graphic Sign Arts Program We ask you, as members of the sign industry, to offer ideas that we might use to attract new students to the program. I, as well as many of my past and current employees have got their start in this program. Members of the teaching staff will be monitoring this thread and answering any questions you have or responding to your thoughts. On behalf of the program, I thank you in advance for taking time to contribute.
posted
The time to recruit prospecive students is in high school. Over the years I have often taken the time to speak to kids in art classes in the higher grades. I've also had a few classes tour through my studio/shop.
Presentations by folks who are in the industry and have a passion for their craft will hopefully light the young people's fire. Hopefully I have inspired a few of them to take up a similar vocation.
During the years when we did murals we spoke to literally thousands of kids in the many communities we travelled to. It is always gratifying to hear from a young adult years later and hear how we inspired them to take up a career in art.
One year when we were in Edmonton I went and spoke with a class at Nait. I recall the students also touring our worksite at the mall too.
They do have a wonderful program at Nait as well as very dedicated teachers too.
Best of luck to all involved!
-grampa dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8738 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Duncan I too believe as Dan has said...I worked closely with the current art program in the schools here, but mainly the high school...Several years ago as I walked through the school with the art teacher, I asked "What happens to this fine art these students have done." She said it mostly ends up in the garbage...It was sad to me that they held no value to what they had created and most likely saw or were told there was no future in it...I said this can't be, they need to know that there is value in their work...So I suggested thet we set up an art show down town open to the public and have the kids there so as they could hear and talk about their work ...The teacher said " if we don't get 50 people out she wasn't going to do this again...I asked her students to do up posters and I would do up a banner that would be put on the building where the art show was to be held...We had well over 300 people show up and all the positive feed back the students recieved really opened their eyes and boosted their confidence...Out of that first show several students have gone on and have made careers out of their art...We do and sponsor the show every year...A few years ago I had the opportunity to bring in some of the animation artists who worked on Walt Disney's Beauty and the Beast. My nephew is now an animation artist...May be Nait need to go out to the art progams and meet with the students and talk of what they have to offer and where they can go with this as a career...Our Art Show is comming up very soon ( it may be short notice for you) but we would welcome you to come and see and speak to the student...They need to see where this can lead...Let me know if this is something you would like to do...This is just a small part of the anwser...but its a start...Thanks Pat
-------------------- Pat Welter Masterhand Signs and Designs Unity, Saskatchewan.Canada Posts: 1304 | From: Unity, Saskatchewan.Canada | Registered: May 1999
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posted
Since I'm not in your area and know nothing about the program I read the whole .pdf file and the school link. I still have to assume things so please bear with me as I am only guessing at this point.
I am familiar with a few trade schools in this area and met some great sign people who have attended them, most were in the business for a number of years but still in the employee status looking for jobs not suited for them. I often wondered why apply for a 10-15 dollar an hour job at 40 years old when they have the talent and training to start their own business. I also worked for a shop that had weekend classes and did the sign show thing, and worked for several employers who were insructors at Art Center College of Design, Otis and UCLA. It seems to me that this program would benefit someone thinking of starting a sign business more than some high school student. This board does not get a lot of it, but on other sign boards there are a lot of people leaving thier dull jobs to get into something more creative. Signs are an easy target because of it's low start-up costs and it seems like a lot is not involved in design ability...Of course they are wrong and what the curriculum says sound like a great solution for them.
I have mostly been an employee to a sign shop and then design firms. I have been lucky to have a few people start me on learning signs the right way so I had no reason to pay people to teach me. But even when I mastered the potter, router, engraver design parameters of signs, codes and screen print production, the most I have ever made is 16 bucks an hour (I have been offered 25.00 but went the design route) After all I know and have done, I can't get a job in a sign shop becuase I am either overly qualified or was offered 12-16 bucks an hour at a regular mom and pop sign shop. I see no real future as an employee to a small sign shop if someone is willing to pay twice as much in construction or a mechanic....until they do it for 10-20 years and get the itch to get into something creative.
I look at the overall classes as really good material to learn and master, but it doesn't really pay that well as an employee. I think one solution is some kind of ongoing class that adds some other valuable (higher paying) skill to a persons portfolio. More emphasis on business and design and craftmenship since it pays better in the long run and a high school student can get a great job in a shop and have a base to start a business later.
Have you seen the online classes on SEGD? It is an ongoing learning class online...though maybe not in the realm of a trade school. It continues a persons education and keeps them up to date....
Having read the other responses, student work, shows and a person who is a mentor will help a lot and former students. My last employer helped 100's if not 1000's in the field of environmental graphics and he inspired me too. Money was not the issue in his discussions, but the size of the projects, the permenants of it.....the meaning of IOAFS does not apply to it, the working in teams and other trades, working inside an office and out in the field. Internships would be nice too.
I'm sure there are a lot of sucess stories coming from the school you can somehow use that to get more people involved. It would be a shame for the class to be cancelled, hopefully you can all figure out a way to keep it going.
-------------------- Rick Chavez Hemet, CA Posts: 1538 | From: Hemet,CA U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
"prospective sign arts students are being lurred away by other very lucrative job opportunities"
Rick covered it, but that's the problem, most sign shops are not making enough to pay labor rates competitive with other skilled trades like electric, plumbing mechanics etc.
posted
Whew!! being able to go to a school like that would have made the last 20 years a lot easier... I am self taught mostly by trial and error and the books and magazines I read (Sign Craft, etc.) I also did a stint as an apprentice in a sign shop, but that was short lived.
I agree in scouting the high school kids. Have a show or presentation featuring your best of the best...it is very enticing to want to do work like that!
-------------------- Stefanie Fox Fox Design Studio Atlanta, GA Posts: 181 | From: Atlanta GA, USA | Registered: May 2006
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posted
Sounds like Canada, does not adhrere to the IOAFS system. Why would anyone want to leave there?
CrazyJack...where do I sign up?
-------------------- Jack Wills Studio Design Works 1465 E.Hidalgo Circle Nye Beach / Newport, OR Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
Thanks folks for your input. As soon as the instructors have had a look here, they will come back with a little more info. I know they do presentations at schools, attend trade shows and host their annual open house. Us in the Advisory have put a link to the program on our homepages. I'm going to draw up a decal that we and other sign shops in town can put in their windows to the effect of...We are proud to employ graduates of the Nait Graphic Sign Arts Program. We may posibly extend that to our company vehicles if that is approved by the college. Now, does anyone here want to see some pictures from my 1972 class???? Did I really look like that in public???
posted
Wow! I had no idea the course has been struggling. Susan and Rita are fantastic instructors and I had a heck of alot of fun in that year! (98-99) I really caught the bug from them and I'd hate to see it die!! I came out of there with a good working knowledge and worked for some great shops after! I can only really echo the suggestions above on how to improve interest in the course and hope it all will work out for them.
posted
Bill is right about the "Rick said it" part. But the problem isn't that most signshops aren't making enough...it's that they're not charging enough. Not making enough is only the symptom.
Maybe you could organize some sort of PR move with participation from a bunch of alumini. Brainstorming sounds called for.
[ May 17, 2006, 06:49 PM: Message edited by: Jon Aston ]
-------------------- Jon Aston MARKETING PARTNERS "Strategy, Marketing and Business Development" Tel 705-719-9209 Posts: 1724 | From: Barrie, ON, CANADA | Registered: Sep 2000
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After going through 14 months of Graphics in College at the age of 50 and with 30 plus years of Signs,...The last thing they dicussed was Signs and not much of that anyway! Most of today.... is about Video or Animation and Commercials. Some Ad printing for those that couldn't keep up! The times are changing!
Look at your local Tim Hortons,TV? New 20" times 32" LCD Screens with Video Ad Commercials and a backroom plug and play computer We have to start think of the future of Advertisement. How do we use it with the less waste of materials and resource. Can we recover items needed for the next (Commercial)...
Is there a harm factor to ourselves and the earth... I say this "Thinking Box" is the next of clean resource of Image Design Only with no by-products...
It is the Twenty Second Century!
[ May 17, 2006, 07:36 PM: Message edited by: Stephen Deveau ]
-------------------- Stephen Deveau RavenGraphics Insinx Digital Displays
Letting Your Imagination Run Wild! Posts: 4327 | From: Lower Sackville, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
Hello Fellow Letterheads! Thank you Duncan, for posting the information about our program and the problem we are having with respect to low enrollment. We have determined several reasons why this is happening, and with the help of people like yourself and other industry partners we may be able to fill up the empty spots for the next intake.
We agree that presentations at the area high schools are necessary, and we have been to several in the last few weeks. As Dan and Pat mentioned, the art classes are probably the best place to inform about the industry and the Graphic Sign Arts program. We will also focus on the Industrial Arts courses, some schools call them Career and Technology Studies as the students that choose these are usually hands on and creative types.
Statistics show in our area only 30% of high school grads will enroll in post secondary education. That is a very small number especially when there are other post secondary institutions in Edmonton. We will continue to promote the program and institute by way of high schools but we need to find other ways to encourage suitable individuals into the industry.
Word of mouth has been one way of getting student into the program. We usually have one or two students each year that enrolled because they knew someone who had taken the program and enjoyed it as well they are enjoying their work in the industry. These people usually come from the rural communities.
If any Canadian letterheads have the opportunity to spread the word about our program to those you feel would fit into the industry it would be appreciated. Because it is a one year program (Sept. to April) some financial support could be available to qualified individuals. For more information about this please email me at ritasche@nait.ca
Thank you again Duncan for taking the time to post and for supporting the program. And I would love to see your pictures from the 1972 class!
And thanks Stevo for the kind words. I just spend some time in Banff, and stayed at the Juniper Lodge again. That was the first and only Letterheads meet for me. (1998) An experience I will never forget.
I always encourage my students to visit and use Letterville. The portfolio page is one I visit often for inspiration. I find the search function is great for finding information quickly. Thanks to Steve and Barb for their contribution to the industry by way of this useful and entertaining site. And thanks to those who contribute regularly and provide information or ask good questions as these will help many people.
Stephen, you are thinking ahead….the “Thinking Box” would not have the waste that conventional signs of today have, but electricity to run it still has by-products. Would these thinking boxes run with solar power?
Thanks for reading all of this, and I hope that resurrecting this post sparks a few more ideas.
Rita Schening Graphic Sign Arts Program The Northern Alberta Institute of Technology Edmonton, Alberta 780-471-8740
-------------------- Rita Schening Wynndel, BC Posts: 6 | From: Wynndel, BC, Canada | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
I also agree with Rick. I am in the process of starting my own thing now because the sign shop I'm working at as a fabricator, is not paying enough. There is a whole lot of benefits to starting your own.
BTW Rick, I used to live in Hemet! Small world.
-------------------- Joel Nelson www.1320designs.com Chandler, Az 480-252-0470 Posts: 20 | From: Chandler, Az | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
Rick said "...someone is willing to pay twice as much in construction or a mechanic....until they do it for 10-20 years and get the itch to get into something creative." Maybe there's a possibility of recruitment among these 'not so young', maybe they're worth targeting as well. I did 'practical' work to earn a living till a few yrs ago, and I came to signmaking in my thirties, despite being a creative person; I didn't even consider a signmaking career as a high school art student, because it didn't appear to be 'creative' enough, and the art community was dismissive. I know differently now, of course, but perhaps that stigma lives on; as those above have mentioned, showing those highly creative high school kids how satisfying signmaking can be, and also the world of options it offers, is key. And not just art students, woodworking and other trades students as well. And perhaps more promotion out of province too. Good luck!
posted
Hi Rita!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm back around town now and when I get the chance I gotta come by and see you and Susan. Hope you're both doing well. Class of '72 pics? I was born that year!!
Stevo
-------------------- Stevo Design Illustration Logos Sign Design Clip Art www.stevo-design.com Posts: 1680 | From: Edmonton Ab Canada EH! | Registered: May 2001
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