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Hi, I am new to this forum. Re Nancy: Talk about being in the wrong place at the wrong time; LOL I think you are obligated to a point. No one can make anyone do someone elses design and especially if it is a bad design. I worked in a mine where they wanted my lettering skills to knock out 100 underground signs. I was on their payroll and I just said that I will not do bad work even if they are underground signs. I made the person in charge of the project buy the best brushes and other supplies I needed but I stuck to my guns and " I DID IT MY WAY" as Frank Sinatra would say. These were caution, explosives signs and others to that effect. I say do it but maybe talk to the person who did the original design and together come up with a better design so they think they are a part of. That way, everyone wins.
-------------------- Greg Fairbrother www.maritimelogos.com Saint John N.B. Canada Posts: 9 | From: saint john n.b. | Registered: May 2006
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posted
I want to apologize to Nancy on behalf of Letterville. It's not her fault that I have not taken the time to spell out our policy regarding religious, political, and other potentially contraversal posts. How was she to know?
On the other hand, I see those that do know the rules, choosing to ignore them and personally attack her. There's never an excuse for that.
There's 2 issues to be resolved. I'm going to drop my plans for today and rewrite the Laws Of Letterville. If possible, I'll direct everyone to the updated rules to give everyone an opportunity to choose if they agree to abide by them.
The second challenge is not as easy. My health problems have reached the point where they are affecting our ability to manage Letterville in the manner you guys deserve. Instead of being at my job monitoring posts, I spend a big part of the day at the hospital. Over the past year that has become all too comman, and it is going to get worse. It's time for a change.
Now please address the original question and forget all the BS.
-------------------- Steve Shortreed 144 Hill St., E. Fergus, Ontario Canada N1M 1G9 519-787-2673
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ummm...actually I thought most of us did a pretty good job putting the fire out, that time Steve.
The thread could've quickly become a major flame war.
There wasn't much in the way of "attacks" and at least two outright appeals to Nancy to be a part of the group without the controversy.
The subject provokes strong emotion. Nancy's comments were VERY provoking (ala "tumors")...and yet aside from a few mild comments I think everybody showed a HECK of a lot more restraint than we have in the past.
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She quickly understood where she was in the wrong place and stepped back. I guess everyone is entitled to free speech and to their opinions but not in a forum where such things are not allowed because it doesn't go with any reasons why we have this forum at all. Sorry to hear you are having health concerns Steve. I am brand new to this forum and am pleased to join this group and I have read the rules of becoming a resident and will be joining that in the near future. I think this forum is a great place to share and learn from and I know how easy it is at times for things to get out of hand (not that this post really got out of hand) I think the proper conduct is to quickly remove a questionable post and send a PM to the offender explaining the removal of the post and to direct the person to the rules and all done in a tasteful manner. But their is really no need for anyone to attack anyone regardless. "A man convinced against his will... is of the same opinion still" is something that I learned long ago and there are other people out there that hold Nancys conviction; we just don't buy into it and move on; at least in this forum. Looking forward to my involvement in the forum. AND... to state what I posted earlier....Just because you donate time to create something for an organization doesn't mean you give up all control over the processes that concern you. Basically, if it doesn't feel right to you and is going to bother you then speak your concerns and if they don't budge then politely move on. They will always find someone who will do the freebie.
-------------------- Greg Fairbrother www.maritimelogos.com Saint John N.B. Canada Posts: 9 | From: saint john n.b. | Registered: May 2006
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Your own words demonstrate that you were well aware that this was one of those subjects that provokes strong emotions. If you already knew there was a good chance this topic would go South, why post it?
We all have choices.
There was one post where the word "moron" was used. I found this to be more offensive to me than anything else and removed the offending post. There's nothing I can do if you want to find new reasons to dislike each other on chat, email or telephone, but I'm not going to sit back and watch it happen in a public Forum I created.
First Law Of Letterville.
We are a Community of individuals dedicated to a Movement known as Letterheads. Personal attacks have no place in our Letterville Community. Any malicious comments intended to embarrass, humiliate or hurt another Letterville user will be deleted. Repeated failure to respect this simple rule will lead to loss of your posting privileges.
The above is our proposed wording ofthe First Law Of Letterville. Any constructive comments? How's my spelling?
[ May 13, 2006, 04:06 PM: Message edited by: Steve Shortreed ]
-------------------- Steve Shortreed 144 Hill St., E. Fergus, Ontario Canada N1M 1G9 519-787-2673
"Any malicious or thoughtless comments which may be deemed to embarrass, humiliate or hurt another Letterville user, whether by intent or unintentionally , will be deleted."
I don't think you need to end up defending your decisions as to whether the intent was there and I can see that being the first can of worms opened. It also will cover the feelings of those who posted in the event it was just thoughtless and not intentional. If it is hurtful it should be gone!
It gives you the right to make the decision, and that is how it should be.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5499 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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Oh, and by the way - for your spelling - there is a spell check feature in Letterville.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5499 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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Steve---In truth the function of the place I did the design work for was never at issue. In fact it never entered my mind. Nancy stirred the pot with slanted and left bent remarks...c'mon! Tumor, anyone?
I respect the law of the land and don't support "clinic-picketing"--but IN LETTERVILLE does one now have to think--"eww...I better not post this sign because the SUBJECT MATTER might offend someone outta the BLUE? What's next, CHURCH SIGNS? (Sorry John Deaton)
I never in my wildest dreams thought that my discussion about a client who didn't know an improvement in design when they see one would descend into a rout about the big "A" word.
Of the "offending" posts, sans Nancy's, all but THREE were made by Residents. Compared to the past, I still say we did pretty dang good.
Heck I all but apologized to the lady ON THREAD (and you can imagine the emails and IM's that one got me) because I am trying along with others to respect the "law".
BOTTOMLINE: All I am saying is we have done a heck of a lot worse, and your post kinda made a lot of folks--most paying members of the site--look like intolerant jerks with your apology without rebuke.
"SHE'S OKAY--and we're the bad guys?"
It's your house--and I do my best these days to play by the rules. This thread was ON TOPIC, til it got hijacked. Are we now gonna go further down the road of "Shalt not's" and say not only can you not talk politics and religion,(which I have no issue with at all) but you must further never post any design or sign that might in the least offend anybody imaginable? okaaay.. Then no more restaurant signs--OP is a vegetarian.
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You missed my point Barry. We are all ok as long as we wear our Letterhead hats while we are in Letterville. The choice is up to us.
Addressed to all...
If my manner seems harsh I apoligize. It's not my intention to place blame for these various dramas that pop up, but it is my job to see it stops.
Our first step is coming up with a few easy to understand Laws Of Letterville. We're working on that right now.
The next step is harder. We have get back to thinking of a Letterville where we are all one in spirit. It's understandable that we all have our own groups of friends. Once our Letterhead hats are off, we're all different. We'll drift into groups based on our own values and beliefs. There's nothing wrong with that as long as we remember who and/or what brought us to the dance.
Think back. There was a time we were all strangers. Then a few started to gather because they wanted to learn and share something they all had a great passion for. Others heard about these meets and were invited to join in. 30 years later, thousands are involved. Letterheads exist in every corner of the World.
I met all my best pals through Letterhead Meets and Letterville. Some of you became more than friends. We've seen new marriages and Families formed as a direct result of a burning desire we should all share to meet each other in person.
Like it or not, we are all here because of something called Letterheads. Everything else is second place when we are gathered together. If we allow ourselves to lose sight of the ball and split into groups based on our own selfish likes and dislikes, we'll begin to lose the magic.
Just my opinion, but I am a Letterhead Fanatic first. At least until I hit the Add Reply button.
[ May 13, 2006, 08:18 PM: Message edited by: Steve Shortreed ]
-------------------- Steve Shortreed 144 Hill St., E. Fergus, Ontario Canada N1M 1G9 519-787-2673
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Steve, It sounds as though this is at least partially open to discussion, so I'll say some things I've pondered for a long time.
-If I sat down and thought about the difficulties of running this place, I might see the tip of the iceburg. It's real easy for me to become more of a hypocrite than I already am in matters like this, because they can become complex. For instance:
-I think that a lot of government laws are passed as a reaction to people disregarding each other. If people took the wishes of others more seriously, there would be less laws, and I of course, prefer less government.
-On the other hand, I'm responsible to say certain things. I've wondered that if there is a place where I'm prohibited from saying those things, maybe I shouldn't go there at all, or go there for business only.
-On the other hand, maybe the responsibility is no longer on me. If the moderator disallows certain speech, the responsiblity falls on him.
-On the other hand, if the job is tedious now, think how difficult it will be when it's time to split hairs and decide what is political, religious, etc, and what isn't. That is one job I don't envy.
- This time I am in agreement with Barry. The people here have shown a lot of maturity, treating them as youngsters that need hard absolute rules won't advance this dilemma toward resolve, or advance the wisdom of it's participants.
-I am also in complete agreement with rule number one. People that tear others down with name calling are lame in their actions, and demonstrating a big vulnerability in the arena of debate/ discussion/discourse. They have committed a logical fallacy, and are liable to having their argument disassembled in public.
-There have been times when a debate got stale, old, whatever, and you stepped in, shut it down, bam! Over. I got a kick and a grin out of that. Not sure how to explain it, but it's like that's your job, "we love ya man" slam the thing with no hard feelings from the mature participants, and let's go to the next subject. Not always a need for a precise explanation of why a thread gets shut down, it just 'didn't feel right'. I myself would rather have that situation than a broadstroke, heavy set of rules.
I still get a kick out of your joke about the kool-aid
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Steve Shortreed: I want to apologize to Nancy on behalf of Letterville. It's not her fault that I have not taken the time to spell out our policy regarding religious, political, and other potentially contraversal posts. How was she to know?
I agree that rules need to be clearly posted so they can be followed better. But, I don't see where Nancy stands blameless and in need of an apology. She started the problem by using extremely inflammatory language, which wouldn't be wise in any forum - online or otherwise. She has obviously given the topic plenty of thought, so she knew full well the reaction it would get.
Regardless of one's feelings on the abortion issue, pro or con, someone else's post isn't the forum for it. This bulletin board isn't the forum for it. She should know better, and probably does.
My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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