posted
My sincerest apologies to Steve, Barb and Si for using Latigo's name and password. I'm no longer registered here but I do have information, the veracity of which I'm convinced most here are unaware. First, allow me to explain how a coating line works. I know whereof I sepak because I worked for Arlon in-house for a number of years running their field training classes, and I spent quite a bit of time both in the lab and on the coating line.
A premium vinyl film is a cast product. Economy films are extruded. In it's simple form, the casting begins on the coating line with a paper that is either high gloss (for premium glossy films) or as a low or no gloss paper for flat colors. That paper is only used for the casting process. The film is rewound onto another carrier before adhesive application. The film at thatr point is face down on the new carrier. The underside being up is presented for the adhesive application.
At the head of the coating line is the spreader bar and the barrels of medium, or raw vinyl product. {**This product is purchased in 50 gallon drums by Avery from an outside vendor**} This is important to know. Avery does NOT produce the raw product they use on the coating line.
The thick, liqud vinyl is pumped onto the casting paper ahead of the spreader bar which is a measured 1.5 mils or less off the surface of the paper. The spreader bar then "spreads" the vinyl evenly across the (typical) 52" web of paper. It then continues into the oven (a very long one) and is rewound on the other end. It is now a "log" and is awaiting a similar process to receive the adhesive.
Once the log has it's adhesive coating it is rewound onto the final carrier paper and stored to await slitting into "masters". A log is a nominal 1,500 feet long. A master is one half of that, or 750 feet. Masters are typically then cut into the 5, 150" rolls that you normally see in 15", 24" whatever widths. This is why you must order 5 rolls of a custom cut. 5 150' rolls equal one 750' master, and a master is a minimum for a custom size cut.
Now, for all the hollering about Avery itself. Avery can't tell you this because of compromising ongoing court cases, but I damned sure can. I'm too old to mess with and my wife owns everything anyway.
Avery has been involved in litigation against the vendor who literally stiffed them with a very large shipment of a bad vinyl formulation some 1 and 1/2 years ago. Its that simple. Avery has a lab, but its not a lab that produces the raw vinyl. THat is produced ny a raw materials vendor, and Avery, unkowingly got stuck with it. Ultimately YOU got stuck with it. Avery itself has done its level best to correct all of this unwanted crap, but its hard to convince badly stung customers. Consider how many thousands of rolls of film were produced from the bad vinyl. If they produced only one hundred logs, then you received 100 10 yard rolls from that one log. Avery produced many hundreds of logs and thousdands of rolls utilizing that bad vinyl. Is Avery responsible? Yes! Avery IS responsible. Is Avery to BLAME? NO! Avery is NOT to blame, but the ultimate responsibility where YOU'RE concerned rests with Avery, not the vendor. Thus, the lawsuits against that vendor by Avery. None of this litigation will ultimately affect you, but it has had a very positive side. Avery learned a temendous amount in its own lab from this failure.
All of the new A9 films in the new boxes have been certified by Avery's own lab to never repeat the performance of the crap many of you unknowingly bought. Their new in-house procedures initiated as a result of this massive failure do nothing short of guarantee a top of the line product.
So... did I get burned?? You bet! I wasn't spared anything at all. We were in the same boat as all of you. Our storage shelves are now filled with the new purple A9 boxes and the film is absolutely top quality.
So is it going to help anyone to sit here and snipe at a company that's doing it's level best to both survive and regain your confidence? Dump that crap right back into the laps of your distributors! Give Avery that chance to regain your confidence. They've served an awful lot of you for a very long time without failure. Everyone falls down at some point in time. Remember the across the board failure with Arlon on the mid 80s? Or 3M's super film failure in the early 80s? If you don't you're a hell of a lot younger than I am. Did you all dump 3M or Arlon permanently when that happened? Give Avery a break. They're doing their utmost to correct a crappy situation. Want to talk to an honest to God rep that will talk straight? Call me. I'll give you his number.
Adios, folks. Be kind to one another. You're all you have in this industry. That and a great board. And give Rosemary a smack if she gets out of line. heh........
posted
I don't care if you are Pierre, Rosemary, Latigo, or Casper the Friendly Ghost. And I don't care to buy Avery ever again. This was a year-old lettering job I did with Avery. Yes they just compensated me with a $350 materials fee and a $200 labor fee for removal to my local supplier, Pioneer in Pittsburgh. Funny enough, a truck I did for this same customer with Calon II in 1999 just won best contractor across America...no failure there. Once bitten twice shy, an Avery rep called just the other day to come visit with samples....I said thanks but no thanks. Love.....Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
It seems that Avery's biggest problem is the failure of it's owm internal labs! They failed to Quality Control testing! And it bit them in the ass!
I spent years in the plastucs industry before I got into the sign biz. I worked for 4 different plastics companies, and was Lab Director for 2 of those companies. 3 of them were custom compounders....and you can bet we tested everything that came in! Sooner or later your supplier will try to subitute a cheaper resin, fgiller, pigment, plasticizer, or other ingredient! Often that change in the formula will have a drastic affect on the final product! Obviously in Avery's case it did!
Saving a few dollars by not testing seems to have cost them much more that they imagined!
[ April 18, 2006, 08:16 PM: Message edited by: Si Allen ]
-------------------- Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA
(714) 521-4810
si.allen on Skype
siallen@dslextreme.com
"SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"
Never mess with your profile while in a drunken stupor!!!
Brushasaurus on Chat Posts: 8827 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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* No one from avery has ever come here to discuss this problem with us.
* avery knew about this problem LONG before it came out here & didn't say a damn word to anyone about it. They left their loyal users with their asses in the wind to be bit.
* A rep from avery called me the day the first post on this bb came up. I was told the problem had already been taken care of & everything made that month & the previous month were fine.
* I then ordered a roll of vinyl for my truck, checked the date when it came in. It was made the same month as the phone call from avery. Within 6 months it looked just like that pict Jill posted.
All manufacturers will at some point have a problem, that's a given. It's how they handle that problem that matters. Burying your head in the sand then LYING to me when confronted about it are not the way to handle it. That is worse than the failure as far as I'm concerned.
People can defend them or make excuses for them all they want. Flat out LYING to me about something that affects MY business as much as this did is unexcusable.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Thank you Pierre. I remember when tylenol was cought up in the tainted bottle scheme. Tylenol immediatly went to work, admitted something was wrong and did every thing they could to make it right. Later I was involved with a PR program where a tape was shown which said this is perfect way to handle bad news.
Too bad Avery didn't see that training tape.
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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Are any aussies aware of Avery failures over here?
Suddenly it's difficult to get avery paintmask film here, in which peeling isn't an issue as you take it off shortly after you put it on, and I bought three rolls of avery 900 series premium cast a couple of years ago, which have not yet shrunk on the job, thank goodness.
On the other hand I have two late 2005 rolls of 700 series calendered that have the adhesive qualities of a handkerchief, but no shrinkage to complain about.
I usually prefer 3M, but fewer supppliers here are carrying it, hence venturing toward avery.
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
Pierre~ I found the depth and the detail of "How Vinyl is MADE" captivating, and for the first time I completely understand the levels of vinyl. Thank you for "breaking in" and sharing that post. (no I'm not teasing him, I truely am a dork.)
I am a paper nut. LOVE Office Supply stores, and I could spend ALL DAY in a paper warehouse... in fact I did! I also got to go on a "field trip" with a local printer (15+ years ago), when he took his staff to the nearest Paper Mill.
Paper Mills ROCK! The pulp is mixed and cooked underground in giganitic enormous tanks, (yes they are so big they need 2 adjectives! LOL) then that pulp gets pumped up to the screens. The carrier for the paper to spread, or spray, out on is a large tube of fine screen that spins. While on the screens the water gets extracted and it becomes paper... on the run! Paper the width of what looked like a Football Field! ...and it all rolls up into a "log" the size of one of our Old Redwoods here in CA. (15 years, and I still get goose bumps! LOL I'm such a geek.)
Putting those memories together with your incredible description of the vinyl- I GOT it!!! (yea, Stef!)
The seeing through the fog side of the Moon
And now for a dose of Nerdy Paper Facts: the screen side of paper is the rougher side of any finish (Linen, Bond, Text, Cover, etc...) and there's ALWAYS a slightly rougher side. (makes a difference in printing) Oh, and it folds the length of that roll. The pulp must "line up" side by side as it's whirling by at speeds I have yet to achieve in my Hot Rod!
(and nooooo I'm not rolling any of my own "paper" tonight- I'm just a paper geek. )
-------------------- The Moon aka: Stefenie Harris Moonlight Designs Pollock Pines, CA learnin' somethin' new every day! stefenie@comcast.net Posts: 550 | From: Pollock Pines, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I've made many, many mistakes in my life. I'm sure there are a few who have never been able to forgive me. I am thankful that there were others with hearts big enough to forgive, and allow me to learn from my mistakes. During the darkest times in my life, a very few even stuck by urged me to get up, dust myself off, and carry on down the road.
With this sort of background, I have a real hard time tossing stones at others. Call me a softy, but I still believe in second chances. Even more if needed.
Avery probally made some mistakes. In the past, it may have been comman to hide our skeletons, but that has become a thing of the past in today's more open society. I don't think I have read any stories about this situation in our trade magazines, but in a forum like Letterville, it is impossible to sweep things under the rug.
As far as I am concerned, this is an old story that just won't go away. I don't believe the owners and workers at Avery are evil. What does the angry mob demand of Avery before they are given a second chance? Would you treat them the same if your friends or relatives were the key players instead of a band of faceless suits?
There's a bunch of valuable lessions to be learned here. Letterville took it's share of punches in all this. A few Merchants were very upset that this whole story was allowed to unfold here right in front of thousands of consumers. That old "Don't bite the hand that feeds you!" theory is still alive and well. I understand what Pierre means when he talks about being old and past the point where the almighty dollar means everything.
I remember a guy from Avery named Tim that bent over backwards to investigate and solve problems a few years back. Because of Letterville, we have all had the opportunity to get to know many of our Merchants on a personal level. Whenever a question comes up, they are here with answers. We're not always going to agree with those answers, but you gotta respect the fact they care.
I'm just one voice here, but I think it's time to get over this and move on. We're not hearing anything negative about the Avery product being used today. I would love to see a company rep explain and reassure us personally on this BB. See? I'm still a hopeless dreamer.
-------------------- Steve Shortreed 144 Hill St., E. Fergus, Ontario Canada N1M 1G9 519-787-2673
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3485 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
If Steve don't mind enough to say so... why do you mind enough to say so? Ernie posted under Diane's name the other day, Steve & Barb have even mixed up who was logged in... We all pretty much know Pierre from back when he was a merchant & before.. he obviously knows what he is talking about... it's not "defending" as much as educating. Avery DID score very poorly for communication, Pierre didn't "defend" that.. he just gave some facts, including who he was so there was no confusion. I don't see why there's a need to question that.
[ April 19, 2006, 07:57 AM: Message edited by: Doug Allan ]
posted
While many may believe that everyone 'deserves' a 'second' chance, (which is a misused little cliche`), the truth is, a second chance is entirely within the control of the offended person who may or may not choose to offer it, whether or not the offender takes responsibility for the offense.
In this case, taking responsibility was the least Avery could do, and which they did in at least some of the cases, regardless of their hope of an on-going business relationship with those offended, or the hope of attracting new customers.
Meanwhile, second chances can be, and often are given, without ever forgiving the first offense . . . so a second chance does'nt necessarily 'prove' forgiveness. Nor does it prove 'fairness' or any other 'quality'. In all actuality, within the realms of business, second chances are just that: Taking a 'chance'.
On the other hand, (specifically with regard to this business situation), you can also genuinely forgive an offense and still choose to never use the product or service again, or 'give a second chance'.
Therefore, even tho' an offense is repaid as much as possible, this does not necessarily imply a mandate to be offered a 'second chance', and it also does not imply a lack of 'forgiving' on the part of the offended person if they choose not to do further business.
No one should be made to feel 'guilty' or somehow 'intolerant' or 'unforgiving', etc, because they choose to not use a company they are dissatisfied with.
posted
I agree, Pierre's an old friend here and not coming out of nowhere.
What has happened to many ,obviously will never let them forgive Avery. Pierre makes a good defense but it doesn't look like it will make one bit of difference for many.
I hope those who have been burned do get justly compensated which seems some have. The point that keeps hitting home to me is Steve's. I have always found it difficult to be hard on those who have messed up with me. Too much has been forgiven of me for some of my bonehead mistakes. I guess that shapes the way I treat others. Just make a sincere effort to fix the problem.
That doesn't mean I get treated shoddy, just know when to push back and when to ease up. Of course I can't forgive what has happened between others, that is for them to decide.
-------------------- Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Posts: 2785 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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posted
Have to take up w/David here, it's far better to forgive and get on w/life...
Recent events here show that real well, I could get all up in arms and make a big deal out of it, but after it is all over and done with, what have I got? One is I've probably got an ulcer, ya, that's worth it!!! NOT!!!
Point is, there are far better things to do w/time left on this planet than worry about things you have no control over other than to use or not use...make your choice and move on, to sit still and grapple w/it is so unrewarding in the long haul...makes you old fast!!! Lighten up, everyone's so uptight, get a grip, enjoy life, it only comes around once, don't waste a moment of it on something negative, far more rewarding to make lemonade...
Now, where's that dog of mine? Time for his daily kick...naw, jus kidding, he'd kick my ass if I laid a hand on him, little monster.....lol
-------------------- Frank Magoo, Magoo's-Las Vegas; fmagoo@netzero.com "the only easy day was yesterday" Posts: 2365 | From: Las Vegas, Nv. | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
No, Tim Doyle is still there. I know cuz he's on the phone to Dad right now. Avery does read this board cuz its the biggest and the best on the net, no? (I'm eavesdropping)
posted
Im not a fulltime avery user, but last year, I did ten police cruisers with their refelctive vinyl. I checked it out the other day, and it still looks as it did the day I installed it. I know others on here have been hurt really bad by the bad batches, and it makes one gun-shy to say the least. Probably will take some time for those that were stung to fully forgive and try them again. Thats to be understood. It seems Avery is trying to atone for their problems and working towards straightening up their relationships with their customers over the problem. I can tell you this, I use Oracal vinyl every day, and have been for several years with no failures at all. If this happened with their product, I would still use them because of the track record before the problem occured. I would expect my customers to do the same for me if I goofed a couple times.
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
Thanks for the info Pierre and also for stepping up to the plate.
The bashing Avery takes here bothers me a lot. Yes, I know many have been stung and need to have that recognized.....uh, how many times is going to fulfill that need? The truth is a lot of valuable energy is going into regurgitating this topic.
Did Avery handle this badly....I don't know, I don't have the facts and as much as has been posted on here I don't recall any one else who has. We are not talking a single person here - this is a company. I'm sure the issue was discussed in board meetings and amongst the executive. Decisions were made...what they were we have no access to. Were they followed through? I don't know. The Reps are our interface with the company - is it their fault - no. Yet I bet many of them took some major abuse from irate customers...some don't see much past the nose on their face.
Stuff happens! I myself don't wish to see Avery eliminated. I like Avery - GASP!!!!!! I have had problems with other materials, substrates, paints. My experience is once a product is found to be faulty, safe guards are put in to assure it never happens again.
So if you have a need to be heard, fine. Just be aware that there comes a point when that need begins to be viewed as irritating whining or excessive bashing to a large number of the readers on the board. Personally, I sigh ever time I see the word Avery here.
If you find you can't get over your experience with Avery, OK, but I ask you to consider this....The BB depends on sponsors to support it, it needs to be a positive place for merchants, not a constant trashing field. NO, I'm not suggesting we sweep everything under the carpet, but there comes a time to move on - are we there yet?
Just an observation, sometimes a mirror doesn't accurately reflect the other side of the fence. We are all human and view the world from the inside out.
And no, I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about a lot of people.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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posted
I still use Avery. Now it's the A9 series. A little more expensive than when it was split into A8 and A9.
I did have two failures, though. On one the customer traded in his truck so he didn't care. On the other it was a construction trailer that I submitted a claim through my distributor. Still haven't heard anything and it's been almost two months now. How long are these returns usually taking?
If they leave me hanging for this I will switch for sure. I don't mind mistakes at all if they are taken responsibility for, but I won't stand for being swept under the carpet.
I think I'll email my distributor right now for a status...
-------------------- Randy Graphic Details Promotional Merchandise Distributor South Glens Falls, NY Posts: 381 | From: South Glens Falls, NY USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Burl Ives??!!! Geeze, I gotta go on a diet!!! I was thinking more like maybe Kevin Costner, Kurt Russell, or hey, even Raymond Chapman!
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
I had a few issues with some vehicles I did and was lucky that the folks that have them are getting rid of or have gotten rid of them already.
I do know that Avery has extensive field tests run all the time on their vinyl and are really trying to make sure their products work well in a variety of ways. I don't know about the other brands out there, but would hope they ALL are doing the same.
In regards to using Avery? I have no qualms using it, it's like any company that has had a major public issue - you can bet your tailfeathers that they are doing everything possible to repair those problems and get on folks good side, just like you and me with our own clients.
-------------------- Brian Diver PDQ Signs Everett, Wa
posted
Wow Pierre when I posted pictures of my Avery shrinkage you said it was because of improper installation ....... then a few days later you posted this: "I spoke to "THE" man at Avery this afternoon and my lab friend shortly thereafter. This is how it is as far as Avery is concerned, There has been NO recall. Ther has been NO across the board failure. There has been NO reformulation of adhesive on the coating line and NO attempt to duplicate another adhesive. Would it surprise you to know that most all acrylic adhesives come from the same source?"
Now it seems that Avery has admitted their problem to you and told you that all is well now and we shouold all stock up on A9...yea right
Do you believe the Avery that swore there was no problem....or the Avery that says it's fixed now?
-------------------- Mark Perkins Performance Signs & Graphics Eunice, Louisiana "The heart of Cajun Country" Posts: 506 | From: Eunice Louisiana 70535 | Registered: Nov 1998
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-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
What a surprise. First post and I get a typical gloat from Grundy. Some things never change.
Every action has a repercusion of one kind or another. When I posted that, it was in good faith and directly from the rep who "spoke for the man", and we were told that it was "the bottom line an could take it as gospel FROM the man". He's no longer there and hasn't been since shortly after Avery sent out their notices to distributors. Much later when I first spoke to Tim Doyle I was told the truth of the matter. By then I was no longer posting or even registered here, nor was Latigo posting and Rosemary was in the middle of an anorexia bout and the Letterheads and Avery were the last things on our minds. It was some time later that our first customer sign shops began calling and we returned and replaced the cataloged products with the new films. Why didn't I post all of that here? Guess.
Why were we so late? Ours took longer to fail. Long winters, large % of cloud cover and it took longer. Once it became apparent that it was indeed a film failure we took the appropriate action that any distributor would take. It was at that point I paid close attention and contacted the Avery upper echelons and got Tim Doyle. We've retained all of our customers and Avery made good with them upon request and proof of jobs performed and sustaining failure. There's no doubt in the world that some distributors screwed their customers around because of the paperwork required to file individual claims. We didn't. So the "but HE SAID" and the low gloating by Grundy are duly noted and absorbed with a "too bad I believed a supposed spokesman for the Man". Life sucks sometimes but never slows down. The message was delivered with convincing authority and I bought it.
I'm not defending Avery and I don't intend to. I simply presented the stated facts from the Northwest Rep, David Harris corroborated yesterday by Tim Doyle, who is indeed alive and well at Avery. The new 9 year line has great performance and a great color selection. We and our customers are satisfied. That's all that matters to us. Want phone numbers? Email me. I have permission from both of them to give them to you. Want to whine, live in a fading past and Gloat? Go for it. We have money to make. Or at least the kids do. I no longer draw a wage and Latigo owns the largest percentage of stocks in the corporation. I no longer own any at all. A side note: Since the kids took over the shop its grown. An I mean grown. He has the kinds of deep-pocket accounts I never had, and he's smart enough to know he has a lot to learn. No ego. He's also retaining his Avery Distributorship. Do you care? Probably not, but that won't change Latigo's income one whit.
I'm taking the bike out for a ride. I wish you successful shops, large accounts and an easy retirement. Take care of yourselves. Nobody else will.
P
-------------------- Pierre St.Marie Stmariegraphics Kalispell,Mt www.stmariegraphics.com ------------------ Plan on knowing everything before I die and time's running out! Posts: 4223 | From: Kalispell,Mt 59903 | Registered: Mar 2000
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-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
Wasn't this also a problem with Avery intermediate vinyl, as for signs such as I use it for...interior donation signs, temporary signs, etc? I rarely buy that but have in the past...just wondering if the letters fell off? It didn't happen when I was in Ohio, and I used it sometimes off and on for the fifteen years I was there.
-------------------- Deb Fowler
"It's kind of fun to do the impossible - Walt Disney (1901-1966) Posts: 5373 | From: Loves Park, Illinois | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
I was just told you should forward it to david.harris@averydennison.com I mean he says anyone who has a problem that their distributor didn't solve, no?
-------------------- Mario G. Lafreniere (Fergie) J&N Signs Winter did show up! Posts: 1257 | From: Chapleau, Ontario | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
When I was a kid, my Sister and I would play a game called "Getting the last hit." For some reason, we just never got along. Call it sibling rivaly, the simple truth was we just seemed to rub each other the wrong way.
50 years have passed and nothing has changed. You can't change the past. I know the "game" we play is wrong, but it's gone on so long now that it just seems natural to ruin every family gathering picking at each other's scabs.
I'm seeing the same thing here in Letterville today. Good people are picking at each other over old wounds. Instead of fixing the problems and getting on with business, we are constantly wasting time trying to fix the blame. It's the "last hit" game all over again.
We like to compare Letterville to a live meet. I'm afraid some potential Letterheads may believe we take turns jumping on stage, grabbing the mic, and calling each other names in front of the whole crowd. Can you imagine paying to go to a meet to watch "family" do their best to **** each other off?
Let's face facts. Some of you rub each other the wrong way. Barb and I get calls all the time about what so and so is saying on the BB. To be honest, we have probally done more than our share of bitching and complaining too. The anger we feel towards each other never seems to be Letterhead related. Most of the time, it has more to do with personal stuff, especially differences in lifestyle and beliefs.
I still have faith we can all get along if we keep our eyes focused on the Letterhead fundamentals. A genuine desire to mend our fences and forget these silly ego related games would be a good first step. Life is too short for this stuff. At the end of the day, it just makes you bitter. Nobody ever wins the last hit game.
-------------------- Steve Shortreed 144 Hill St., E. Fergus, Ontario Canada N1M 1G9 519-787-2673
posted
Of course you can win that, Steve. You just have to slug hard and run like hell. heh............... I just gave my Daughter my word that I would no longer respond to stupidity, and I now give you that same word. I'll post whatever help I can provide concerning problem solving. I don't know how much time I'll "be allowed" since we share computers in this family. Miss hot stuff seems to be here quite a bit now so I'll help when I can.
So, Steve......... *smack!!* GOTCHA LAST...GOTCHA LAST!!
P
-------------------- Pierre St.Marie Stmariegraphics Kalispell,Mt www.stmariegraphics.com ------------------ Plan on knowing everything before I die and time's running out! Posts: 4223 | From: Kalispell,Mt 59903 | Registered: Mar 2000
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(but returning to a question I put several posts up:)
Have any aussies (or pommies) had any problems with avery vinyl, or were the problem batches restricted to North America?
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
To clarify my earlier comment, my failures were with A8, not with the new A9.
But, like others, I'm still waiting for a reply regarding the A8 failures. I submitted everything that was needed per info from my distributor - the job specs, 3 pictures from different angles, etc.
Much longer and I'm gonna do a search on this board of "preferred high performance vinyl".
-------------------- Randy Graphic Details Promotional Merchandise Distributor South Glens Falls, NY Posts: 381 | From: South Glens Falls, NY USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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![[Applause]](graemlins/applause.gif)
(yea, Stef!) ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[For Your Information]](graemlins/fyi.gif)
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
I have his picture on an old record jacket.![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Bash]](graemlins/bash.gif)
![[Rolling On The Floor]](graemlins/rolf.gif)
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
....... then a few days later you posted this:
![[I Don t Know]](graemlins/dunno.gif)
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