posted
Well, it seems the university residence my son lives in saw fit to hold a 5:30 am fire drill the other morning. After everyone had collected on the front lawn they were told they could return to their respective apartments. Twenty minutes later the alarms were still going. The other detectors in the apartment had buttons to turn them off, but the one in my son's bedroom didn't. So he popped the cover and unplugged it. BAD MOVE!!!!!!! It seems his was part of the main circuit. Five minutes later security was at his door and he has been charged with a criminal offense endangering lives. He had his "meeting" this afternoon, seems they don't want to charge him, but "rules are rules". The hefty fine is bad enough for a university kid, but the criminal record that goes with it will put an end to his trip to California in May and all out of country travel for a while.
I guess "ignorance is no excuse" - there is a section in the residents handbook that says tampering with a smoke detector is a criminal offense, but I sure feel bad for the kid. He has been a really good kid all his life, and he just wanted to get back to sleep so he could write an exam later.
The sad thing is that a similar situation happened to a friend years ago when I was in university. I wish I'd thought to pass that story on to my boy.
So, those of you who have kids who may get caught in the same situation, give them a heads up. I think they ding a few every year for similar situations, be it burnt toast or fire drills.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
Sadly Kelly, "common sense" does not prevail in so many areas, when in fact it should be the governing sentiment.
I've never liked the "rules are made to be broken" phrase, but prefer "Rules are made to serve a purpose, and if they are later found needing modification, then so be it, let's get them modified"
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
Tampering with a smoke detector MAY be a criminal offence, but what does it say in the handbook about not being able to turn one off when all the rest have their own switch?
I'd take this one a little higher. If for nothing else than to remove that criminal record over something so insanely rediculous!
posted
Kelly - you might want to talk to your attorney - I definately would in this situation. It might or might not cost ya some bucks to do so - usually a quick initial consultation is free. . . .
-------------------- Carl Wood Olive Branch, Ms Posts: 1392 | From: Olive Branch,MS USA | Registered: Nov 1999
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How come they allowed ANYONE back in the building with even a single alarm still going?
Although this was a "Drill", how did they know that an alarm still ringing wasn't a real fire?
In all my experience as a Safety Officer and on Rescue Teams for a large Brewery ... NOBODY was allowed back into the building until all alarm systems had been checked and cleared.
When this fact is pointed out to them I think they might back down in a hurry. Otherwise see your Lawyer.
The kids were told to return to the building and the alarms continued for 20 MINUTES? His did not have a shut off switch...hence no way of disabling it other than what he did.
You son shouldn't be paying for the ineptitude of the people who installed the damn thing, much less the outright stupidity of the university.
Maybe a countersuit for reckless endangerment might be in order. Rapid
[ April 04, 2006, 07:19 AM: Message edited by: Ray Rheaume ]
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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Too many times the "letter" of the law is followed, rather than the "spirit" of the law. Hindsight is always 20/20. Probably shoulda called security. But, who of us is a clear thinker when they are awakened from sleep in a panic?
Extra credit from the school of hard knocks I guess.
[ April 04, 2006, 08:40 AM: Message edited by: Rick Beisiegel ]
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3484 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6713 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
It may seem to others that the punishment does not fit the crime. But let's put a small spin on this one, let's say by chance that there was actually a fire or one broke out later that night. If the fire detector that was part of the main switch was tampered with then possibly a lot of lives could have been lost.
At that point this punishment would seem far too little for the crime.
I feel for your son kelly I really do but like your post says rules are rules.
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
We will definitely look into contesting it, although I suspect it will be fruitless. They likely have the option of expelling him as leverage. I'm pretty sure it is the university that is charging him.
As much as I don't like it I can see where they are coming from. I do think they need to put some type of label or warning on the detectors. If it had said, "WARNING, this fire detector is part of the main fire detection circuit. Disabling it will shut down the entire circuit which will result in charges including a criminal record.", I'm sure he would not have unplugged it.
In any case he is going to approach them again and see if there is any other way they can work this out. Maybe we can offer to make warning decals.
If I'm not mistaken you can apply for a pardon to have a criminal record sealed once your "sentence" has been fulfilled. Your records, fingerprints etc. are then sealed away and are not reopened unless you are charged with a criminal offense again.
We really need to give our kids a heads up on the consequences of innocent actions. As I said before, this seems to be a common mistake, so pass it on.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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posted
For one, my kid wouldn't be a student there one day after such an incident...two, can you spell attorney?
As others have alluded to already, his record!!! The pardon statement is just BS, it will always be available for veiwing, no matter who or what expunged it, that's a fact jack!!! His record will follow him all his life, if applying for a sensitive job, expunged or not, it will come up...
Do you really need more incentive to hire an attorney and take these idiots to task??? It's your son's future...don't let the incompetance of administrators ruin his chances of a good life, having a tag will cost him somewhere down the road for sure...
-------------------- Frank Magoo, Magoo's-Las Vegas; fmagoo@netzero.com "the only easy day was yesterday" Posts: 2365 | From: Las Vegas, Nv. | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote: We really need to give our kids a heads up on the consequences of innocent actions.
You said it right there, "innocent actions." Anyone, at least the majority, would have done the same thing without ever thinking about it. Very few would have predicted the severe consequences. I think intent is everything. And I agree with what was said above, they never should have let them back in the building if the alarms were still going off.
If he needs to pay a fine for a mistake, then let him pay that. We all make stupid mistakes and have to pay for them. But criminal charges? Ridiculous! I would get a lawyer and fight hard.
-------------------- Tracie Johnson Signovations Ventura, California Posts: 444 | From: Ventura, California | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
I totally agree with Jon and Ray. Also, a *drill* 5:30 in the morning???? Give me a break; I'd be changing schools and sueing their eyeballs out. Schools can't afford negative publicity and they sure can't afford lawsuits.
-------------------- Ricky Jackson Signs Now 614 Russell Parkway Warner Robins, GA (478) 923-7722 signpimp50@hotmail.com
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Issac Newton Posts: 3528 | From: Warner Robins, GA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Jon hit the nail on the head. Letting the kids back in while a fire alarm was still ringing was blatant negligence. The alarms are to be shut off before re-entering the building. They get shut off after making sure there is no fire. If his alarm was still ringing, they had no way of knowing if it was a problem in the circuit or a real fire and it should have been checked out & disarmed before they went back in. It could have easily been a real fire erupted while they were outside in which case they were endangering a lot of lives by allowing them into a burning building.
Kel, grab an attorney & have this discussion with the school. Granted, unplugging his alarm was a bad move on his part, but their allowing kids back in without checking out the building was a bad move on theirs. 2 wrongs don't make a right but it isn't fair for 1 wrong to be punished & another not to be. Best for both to admit their errors & let it drop.
If that doesn't work & they try to punish him, take it public. I'm sure the local fire departments, the media & other students parents would love to know the fire alarm in their kids dorm is malfunctioning & the officials allowed kids to return while the alarms were going off without making sure the building was safe. (Had they made sure it was safe, they would have shut off the alarms properly while doing so)
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
I don't think the lawyer will be necessary.
I'm proud of the way my son has handled this. He has taken responsibility for his actions in a calm and respectful manner. He approached them again today and there will be no criminal record. He took the idea of the decals to them and they are considering it as a worthwhile and logical alternative to a fine as well. He explained that the desired result of preventing others from tampering with the fire detectors would be far better served long term with visible information on both the dangers and consequences, than by making an example of his foolishness.
It seems there was more to the story than we originally thought. The fire alarm was not a scheduled drill, but a result of someone setting off the fire extinguishers in a stairwell. Not only were the students allowed to return, but a number of them navigated through the slick extinguisher residue in the stair well. Pretty dangerous HUH?
If they go with the decals, the results of this look to be very positive. Firstly it could prevent a very tragic occurance down the road and secondly, I think my kid learned a valuable lesson in both thinking before you act and cleaning up his own mess.
In any case, warn your kids.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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quote: He approached them again today and there will be no criminal record.
Kelly, Thanks for the superb news!
-------------------- Kimberly Zanetti Purcell www.amethystProductivity.com Folsom, CA email: Kimberly@AmethystProductivity.com
“Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up.” AA Milne Posts: 3722 | From: Folsom, CA | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
Kelly you should be VERY proud of such a respectful, well thought out solution that he approached the school with... You taught him well.
-------------------- Jane Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, Il. 61764 815-844-7024 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 4102 | From: Pontiac, IL USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted
Thanks Jane, he is a good kid.....funny I was thinking the same thing about Joe Diaz being a wonderful reflection of some good parenting not so long ago, after being impressed with the way he was handling some stuff.
[ April 04, 2006, 03:49 PM: Message edited by: Kelly Thorson ]
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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posted
If I have learned anything with the training I have done with the Fire Dept is that people can and do the unexpected. Yes, he should have left the smoke alarm system alone, but on the other hand I think he has made a great step in the right direction. It is one thing to pay a fine and face what you have done, but to come with a proposal to decal and inform others is very proactive. Good for him, he might have just save many lives in the future.
posted
A guy I knew in high school...went to MSU. He thought it would be a funny joke to throw a couple firecrackers under the door of a neighboring dorm room while the guy was sleeping.
Caught the room on fire....everyone escaped, evacuated the dorm....3 rooms were totaled by the fire before they put it out.
the guy was kicked out of college and had some hefty fines.
This guy deserved what he got....
Your son did not...and I am glad he appears to have come to a reasonable settlement on the issue.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
I saw this post when you first posted it & hoped for a happy ending. I'm glad it seems to have arrived at one so soon Kelly!
I remember a story with some similarities. The guitar player in my band in high school was a born entertainer. Besides playing Oboe in the school band & Piano at home... he took up guitar & was the envy of the other high school bands...
..he also was a practicing magician with many well performed tricks & quite a variety of accessories for his performances. When he decided to get a set of lock picking tools he set about practicing on locks. The day he tried to pick his own gym locker... he was caught! He laughed it off as he showed them it was just a mistake.. he was only practicing his new magic trick on HIS locker & of course that can't be any infringement... They took him down hard on that... made a huge deal.. this guy was a solid ace student... never in trouble... best grades... I know they didn't expell him, but while I can't remember what did happen, it was at least suspension, & probably involved cops that first day.
posted
I don't think anyone could have handled it any better than that. I know you are very proud of him and well you should be.
-------------------- Ricky Jackson Signs Now 614 Russell Parkway Warner Robins, GA (478) 923-7722 signpimp50@hotmail.com
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Issac Newton Posts: 3528 | From: Warner Robins, GA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
I work in a school and no one calls a test alarm at 5:30 am.NO one has the right to turn the alarm off accept the fire dept.If anyone turns the alarm off or fools in any way will be charged.When they say ok turn it off,thats when i turn it off.How much was the fine Kelly?
-------------------- Randall Campbell Randy's Graphics, 420 Fairfield N. Hamilton Ontario Canada Posts: 2857 | From: Hamilton Ontario Canada | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
Yeah, I think we all get it that tampering with an alarm in a school is not ok... think of yourself as a teen... in YOUR apartment!! It's not as obvious of a violation when you picture yourself in his situation. I'm pretty sure I would have done the same thing. (not so sure I would have handled the aftermath as well though )
posted
This was in their residence, Randy...and yes it was a bad move, but at 5:30 am, lacking sleep and having to listen to it in his bedroom for over 20 minutes, he wasn't thinking too rationally. The detector was not equipped with a shut off, he had to actually "tamper" with it to figure out how to quit. The funny thing is that some other friends said they tried to figure out how to get theirs to turn off too but didn't know which wire to unhook. Farm kids are pretty good at knowing how things work. He has rebuilt 3 cross country bikes and a couple of motors - a smoke detector was pretty easy pickings.
I believe the fine is going to be $200 or else the decals. Either way it will probably be close to the same, I hope they go for the decals. I posted above that it turns out that this was the results of vandals breaking into the fire extiguishers in one of the stairwells, not a fire drill as we first thought.
They don't know who is responsible for the vandalism, I suspect they were out for blood and my son generously set himself right in their path. Things have calmed down now.
The main reason I posted this here was because I know stupidity happens and usually it is rooted in ignorance. Maybe someones kid will hear this story and it will save someone some grief.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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posted
Kelly, your son might want to get in touch with whomever he had dealing with on that case and let them know that HIS smoke alarm was the only one sounding on the floor, if in fact it was. This problem means to me either there is a problem with the remaining smoke alarms on the floor or the one in his room and they NEED to give that IMMEDIATE attention. If they dont take care of it pretty quick it can be a life hazard liability for the school.
If he approaches them in a responsible fashion he might come out looking like a Hero.
-------------------- Harris Kohen K-Man Pinstriping and Graphix Trenton, NJ "Showing the world that even I can strategically place the pigment where its got to go." Posts: 1739 | From: Trenton, NJ, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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