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What is your "favorite" brand of premium vinyl? Why?
There was discussion before about customers applying the graphics themselves. If you do a two color font (with a shadow) do you put everything together when you mask it for them, or do they apply each color like I would?
I hope that makes sense. It's a little late and I am working way too much!!!!!!
Thanks,
-------------------- Ronda Neb Custom Imaging 912 Denver Ave. Fort Lupton, CO 80621 Posts: 20 | From: Fort Lupton, CO | Registered: Jan 2006
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i'm strictly a 3m kinda chick. as far layers, if they want to put the graphics on to save money...then they can layer them just like us. or if the customer is nice then i would. but it does depend on how large the letters or graphic is. i don't layer vinyl much these days because of the printer but the graphic will go smoother if you put them on separately cause sometimes air can get trapped when you try to preassemble. hows the glass blasting and carving going?
-------------------- Karyn Bush Simply Not Ordinary, LLC Bartlett, NH 603-383-9955 www.snosigns.com info@snosigns.com Posts: 3516 | From: Bartlett, NH USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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We really like 3M Comply. But since no one here sells 3M, we normally buy Arlon.
We DON'T like: 3M with the clear plastic liner or Coburn vinyls. Cobrun fades & the people at coburn are not the friendliest. (did I spell it right... friendliest? friendlyest?)
-------------------- Felix Marcano PuertoRicoSigns.Com Luquillo, PR
Work hard, party like a tourist! Posts: 2274 | From: Luquillo, Puerto Rico, USA | Registered: Nov 2000
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I'm With Karen, 3M, which includes Gerber and Gregory products, plus I like Arlon/Calon products too. Knock on wood, I've never had a problem with Arlon material failures and the few issues I've had with 3M were taken care of. I don't assemble vinyl for the client for the same reason, bubbles sometimes get trapped around the edge of the 2 layers of graphics during the install.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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I've use Gerber white exclusively for 8 years. For colors I use Calon II, nary a failure from either. I have to spend tomorrow replacing all the Avery on a van that I spent several hours peeling off on Monday....all for free. Love....Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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I've been using Calon II for a long time with only one failure on an old awning that I didn't install. For the Edge printing I stick to the 3M 225. You can print and cut just about any minute shape with the plastic backing on that stuff. For cheap Edge stickers Quantum 2000.
-------------------- Bill Modzel Mod-Zel screen Printing Traverse city, MI modzel@sbcglobal.net Posts: 1357 | From: Traverse City, MI | Registered: Nov 1998
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i like arlon....but ameriban dropped it and we went to denver supply, then they dropped it and i said the hell with it. im with oracal now but i do miss arlon badly, it was very workable and it held clear great
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
Why are you replacing an Avery job for free? Was this one of those "failure" issues?
I just recently gathered up all the necessary info and submitted it to my distributor for one of my jobs that failed. As far as I know, they'll replace the vinyl and provide a "limited" labor charge of $25.00 per hour. Not my hourly rate but at least it's something.
Why are you receiving nothing???
-------------------- Randy Graphic Details Promotional Merchandise Distributor South Glens Falls, NY Posts: 381 | From: South Glens Falls, NY USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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3M, Oracal and Neschen for the simple fact they're the easiest and fastest for me to obtain. Except for the Neschen, everything else has to be shipped in and since 3M and Oracal come in from Vegas it only takes a day or two to get 'em in. I can run down to another local shop that distributes Neschen and pick up material if I have a time crunch.
I send everything out pre-assembled. If applied using a towel wrapped around the edge of the squeegee or maybe even a felt-tipped squeegee it takes care of a lot of those bubbles and any left over are small enough they'll disappear on their own after a couple days.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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Ronda, We use Neschen premium vinyl and DON'T layer the lettering or graphics for two reasons: 1) you can get bubbles as mentioned earlier when the customer applies two layers at one time which they sometimes will blame you for! and 2) This is what we get paid to do; why do all the work for them to save them time (which we should charge extra for)? Unless it a rush situation, a good customer who won't take advantage of you, or the graphic/lettering is small enough that they won't get many bubbles applying.
We have a light table which helps us layer small vinyl together. (If we really have to do it!)
We are eliminating the skill level of our business if we give the customer vinyl put together for them. It takes some skill and patience to layer vinyl and do it right. I feel for the time it takes to prepare their vinyl for them, we should charge an assembly fee in the final cost for their vinyl. Most customers are trying to eliminate the cost of installation and trying their hand at something they think is easy. Layering their vinyl for them is really making it easier for them and convincing them that they don't need a sign professional which I think cheapens our business and credibility.
I must add that I have had exceptions to my stand on this and have provided layers to a few customers but that doesn't change the way I feel about it. One customer still screwed it up anyway and had to re-order the same vinyl again!
Try not to offer it unless they are willing to pay for it. Everyone thinks this business is so easy anyway with computers doing all the work,etc. I still want to make a living making signs without creating a bunch of wannabe sign wizards down the block from me.
Sorry for the rant. Sign-cerely, Steve
-------------------- Steve Luck Sign Magic Inc. 2718-b Grovelin Godfrey, Illinois 62035 (618)466-9120 signmagic@sbcglobal.net Posts: 870 | From: 2718-b Grovelin Godfrey, Illinois 62035 | Registered: Dec 2004
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We've used the Arlon/Calon for many years and like it. Recently we purchased some of the 3M with the clear liner that Felix claims to dislike. What is it about that product you don't like? It say's "electrocut" on the back.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6720 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Hiya Rick, I prefer the paper liner. Although the product is good, the 3M/Gerber adhesive with the synthetic liner is very agressive when it comes to applying the vinyl. If you're not careful, it will stick too well. And, most of the time, it's when I'm not ready to stick it
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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We use strictly Oracal 751 & 851 from TGG Supply in PA. They usually have all the colors in stock and ship the same day. I don't see the reasoning behind using an intermediate vinyl. The vinyl cost is minimal compared to final selling price of a sign or truck lettering and HP vinyl is easier to apply.
-------------------- Lou Pascuzzi www.economysigns.com Fine Hand Lettering since 1973 Danbury, Ct 203-748-4580 "IOAFS" Posts: 341 | From: Danbury, Ct | Registered: Feb 2000
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Like John, we use strictly Oracal 751 & 851 from TGG Supply in PA. They usually have all the colors in stock and ship the same day. I don't see the reasoning behind using an intermediate vinyl. The vinyl cost is minimal compared to final selling price of a sign or truck lettering and HP vinyl is easier to apply.
-------------------- Lou Pascuzzi www.economysigns.com Fine Hand Lettering since 1973 Danbury, Ct 203-748-4580 "IOAFS" Posts: 341 | From: Danbury, Ct | Registered: Feb 2000
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Well, I used to be a big Avery guy....it weeded like butter and applied superbly....but after the adhesive flap I started using 3M.
I really like 3M....it's a little tougher to release from the backing paper, but it cuts and weeds well, and well, it is 3M - quality stuff.
I did use some Avery to match some prior Avery graphics I used on their other cop car for a customer I've had for years and years (small rural Police).....and I noticed the Avery graphics on the older car had shrunk back about 1/8 inch leaving the telltale adhesive mark.
It appeared to be fully adhered though, and these guys aren't that anal to care apparantly....so I guess everything is ok for now.
But from now on, it's going to be 3M for me.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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3M for everything except 1 roll of white oracal 651 that lives here to be used strictly for 1 customer's temp stuff.
Got hit with the avery fiasco about the same time as I got the first Edge. Chose to go with 3M for the Edge so if I have a problem, Gerber gets to deal with it (using their machine, their software, their foil & their vinyl... there can be no finger pointing). The decision to go totally 3M wasn't difficult. No trying to cross colors over to another brand, no worries layering.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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