posted
i bid on some prestigious subdivision signs. your typical $200,000 per lot no home subdivision. i called guy back and asked whats up with the bid, he said you were too high. he then told me bid he got in from another sign company for the same thing i was offering...no lie, i said bull****! there aint no way in hell. idd they bid on same thing i was? he replies yes!
hey said can you beat that?...i said fax it to me! he said no i cant do that. I replied if you expect me to "underbid somehting that low i want to see the bid, he faxed it.
i was bidding 32-3'x4' signs with posts all vinyl, background and lettering. other sign company bid on 32-18x24 signs on one post....this tightwad had decreased the size of the sign and then had the balls to ask if i could beat it.
i had no intentions of undrrbidding anything mind you but when a customer comes back with crap like this it might pay to look at it. what a jerk off. and this is one of montgomery prestigious home builders, this sob makes more profit on one subdivision then i will in 10 years....another thing about this jerk off is hes not very faithful to his vendors he does not stick with one person.
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
Most real estate folks are just like you described. Take a peek at past posts, you will see many folks have had issues with real estate folks, just the way of the business apparently.
There may be a few good ones out there, but not many.
-------------------- Mike Berry New England Posts: 534 | From: New England | Registered: Jan 2002
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bruce, i had no point just venting! every now and then i like to bitch to people that understand it
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
posted
I hate it when someone comes in after you and lowers the quality of the job just to come in with a lower price. Unfortunately, with some people who have all the money, often -that's why they have it. They go the cheap route. It's enough to pss you off to no end, I know.
posted
Call this other assclown - the one who bid on 18 x 24s - and get his real price on the 3x4s you offered. If it's substantially less, offer a "discount" to the customer and if he bites (we already know he sucks) sub it to the assclown and take a small profit.
Ranting here feels good. Ranting here can be fun; god knows I've done my share of it. But ranting here does not make you dime one.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Well, I certainly am no fool but I just can't fathom the reasoning of your grievance.
The other shop beat your price. Well, no sh*t, sherlock. Your bid was for signs that were four times the size than the other guy bid, not to mention the posts and other associated items.
The real estate guy was just looking at the bottom line price. That's HIS problem. He can't read or just doesn't care. You have now created an adversarial relationship by elevating your discussion to a level it needed not be at.
Asking him to fax that quote to you was a no-class move on your part. By doing that, you called him a liar. Whether he is or was is a moot point. You knew it was virtually impossible for it to be true.
Does it suck to lose a bid like that. Yes, it does. We have all lost bids like that. I lost a $170K bid last year, to a 10 year client BTW, by $236.40. That was a bid we worked on for months. Without going into detail, for lack of time and space, I pled my case, lost the bid. Federal bid laws requird they take the low bid. Too bad, so sad.
What totally amuses me is the level that people here will bitch about the cheap clients, call them names, bitch about the low ball competitors, and then go out and do the exact same thing they were bitching about to begin with.
I doubt you purchase all your supplies through one distributor. I never did nor will I. Why? Because I shop for price, too. We all do. To claim otherwise would be lying.
I also compare quality versus price. Not everyone does that. That doesn't make them assclowns, as Cam so eloquently names them, just poor business people.
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
Normally asking to see someone else's bid isn't classy. But in this case, I will differ from Bruce. If he wants you to underbid, he has to provide the bid. Period. Go into any store that advertises price matching & tell them you can get the same item somewhere else, they WILL verify that either with a sale ad or calling the competing store.
I know you're just venting and that's ok, we've all done that here. Like you said, it's nice to be able to bitch about this stuff to people who know what you're talking about.
Now that you know the specs this other shop bid, figure out what your honest price for the same thing would be. Whether it's lower, the same or higher than the other shop, submit it to the customer and explain to him that if he's going to compare bids, he needs to compare apples to apples, pointing out your initial bid was for 4x the signs they would be getting from the assclown. What your initial bid 4x the price of the assclown?
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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okay im not here to **** off people and get into a ****ing match on the bbs. and yes bruce me asking him for that quote in writing was not classy and i tell you this. when i asked for it i had no intentions of continueing work or bids for this guy. IT WAS OVER! i was just driving the nail further.
im sorry this post has upset you with its meaningless point....but i gurantee you this aint the only post on this board that has started out meaningless.
yall have a good weekend
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
posted
What's not clear to me is why the 2 bids were so different. Did the client tell one shop to bid on big signs and the other to bid on little ones?
-------------------- Bruce Williams Lexington KY Posts: 945 | From: Lexington, KY, USA | Registered: Mar 1999
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Just revel in the fact that the real estate boom is starting to tank all across the country and it may not be long before that builder is *struggling* to unload those houses.
Call that other sign dude up in 6 months and see if he's been paid in full yet.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
Bruce, usually on these kind of bids there will be specs that the bidders must follow . . . Did the contractor not set up specifics which would include the size signs they wanted??
By the very nature of a 'bid' everyone should be quoting on the same thing.
Also, did you explain to the contractor that they were not gonna be happy with smaller signs for what they are promoting?
Anyway . . . I hate it when customers compare apples with oranges . . .
Had a guy one time who wanted new letters on his building. He wanted something nice that would last. I priced him Gemini letters, and also an option to go with flat-cut aluminum letters with an automotive finish.
Later I ride by and he has those cheap styrofoam letters up!!! I mean the kind like coolers are made of! He bragged about how much cheaper he got those than what my price was . . .
I asked him what he paid and it was'nt really that much less than my quote for life-time letters! He paid 3 times what he should've paid for those cheap letters, which by the way, were all peeling and being eaten up by birds within months of bein' put up and now are just hanging in peices. . .LOLOLOL
I'm SO glad he bragged to everyone 'how much he saved' and how much cheaper he got them from someone else instead of "that expensive sign lady"!
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
I think the guy was a lower than any of my snakes could ever get and You would be very smart not to work for someone like him. He would screw you.
-------------------- Bob Stephens Skywatch Signs Zephyrhills, FL
posted
to bruce wiliams yes he went to 2 differnt places and got bids and since mine was high he went to the other guy and got the smaller and less expensive way....my question is...WHY NOT COME BACK TO ME AND LET ME SEE HOW I CAN BEST LOWER THIS PRICE WHY GO ELSEWHERE! BUT INSTEAD WHEN I CALLED BACK HE WAS TRYING TO MAKE ME BELEIVE THAT THE OTHER SIGN GUY QUOTED THE SAME THING FOR ALOT CHEAPER.
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
posted
and no i did not tell him about smaller is not as good as larger i could care less what this jerk does...he lied to me and is a tightass. he can go get coroplast on wire stakes for all i care.
customers will lie to you. the whole reason in me asking for the bid he got becasue the price hesaid they quoted there was NO WAY!
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
posted
I would have asked to see the bid as well...out of morbid curiousity. That's not calling someone a liar.
If he was dumb enough to fax it to you he is also dumb enough to settle for something far less than you would have provided. He should have requested specific sizes, like Sheila sez. The other shop played dirty by substituting smaller signs. Of course they'll be cheaper! He'll get what he deserves in the long run.
Love....Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
Bruce, it is going to take more than this thread to upset me. Trust me.
I think you must have some serious unresolved anger issues, dude. I, for the life of me, can not figure why you are so po'd. You're post is seething with anger. Why?
You think the guy lied? BFD. Some people do it all the time. You knew he couldn't have gotten the same basic sign for what he said he could. Why persue it?
Telling the guy "BS" over the phone and then wanting a faxed copy of the quote to prove some point is calling him a liar.
It is his prerogative to get competing quotes. He is under no obligation to come back to you to re-quote the job. He is free to spend his money anywhere he wishes.
I would venture to guess that none of us get every job we bid. I know I sure wouldn't want to. I would be too busy to enjoy my work and the fruits of my labor.
These things happen to every profession. Honest, Bruce. It's true!
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
If it'll make you feel any better we can load up the Jeep one night, toss a cooler in the back, and go remove his signs from the right-of-way like the Mayor says we should.
Can we go get Thai food this time? Kung Po chicken is getting old.
-------------------- Pat Whatley Montgomery, AL (334) 262-7446 office (334) 324-8465 cell Posts: 1306 | From: Wetumpka, AL USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Hey Pee Dubya... think we will all fit in the Jeep sing we have to have a cooler?
I never had thai food before but I guess I could try some.
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
I wouldn't stick a little 18x24 on a $200,000 lot - around here most builders use 4x4's or 4x3's on houses that are $250,00 & up, 3x2 metal frame sign minimun. . . the guy flat out lied to you or was too busy to pay attention to the specs - take yer pick on that one- - - I've found Builders/Contractors some of my best customers -
-------------------- Carl Wood Olive Branch, Ms Posts: 1392 | From: Olive Branch,MS USA | Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
OK,Sheeeeeeeeeler, mexican it is! Cheese enchiladas! Woohoo!
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
He evidently wasn't too offended by your bull____ comment..... he did wasted his time to fax you the other guys quote. Bottom line is, he must still be interested in what YOUR quote would be.
If you need the work, and have the time, figure what your price would be for the smaller size. If your quote is lower, submit it.... if not, then you have the satisfaction of knowing you wouldn't have gotten the bid anyways.
Then forget him....Next customer please.......
-------------------- John Gresak Gresak Signs Du Bois, PA Posts: 13 | From: Du Bois, PA | Registered: Feb 2006
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Jeez! I live in "Little California" (Arizona).. I'm sick and tired of Mexican!! You people in the east and down south don't know what real mexican food is anyway.
Let's make it Italian instead, people on the west coast have NO CLUE about Italian food (Olive Garden is NOT Italian!) - I'd love something good although right now I'd settle for something remotely edible.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
There is a new Mexican restaurant here in town, owned and operated by real live honest to goodness Mexicans. My wife and I tried it a couple weeks ago and the food was excellent. I even got to try some of my limited Spanish on the waiter....he was Mexican too.
"Mi amigo, donde estan el carne?"
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7403 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
One of the problems in this business is the huge number of variables, in both materials and designs, that can turn the simplest bid request into an apples/oranges scenario.
Example: A customer wants a basic 4x4 For Sale sign, his bid specs are 3/4" plywood on 4x4 posts. So your bid needs to include the cost of painting and prepping plywood. Meanwhile, he gets a lower bid for 4x4 signs that are done on white alumalite - far less labor cost involved. Of course it's not the same specs, but the bottom line is, A. The client asked for plywood because he's unfamiliar with alternative substrates, and B.- this is the important part - an alumalite sign is going to perform the same function - that is, to advertise the property for a limited time period - as the plywood sign. In this case the material specs of the bid were irrelevent - the same function could be accomplished with less-expensive signs.
How do you deal with that? You can offer your customer a "deal" by explaining that 3/4" plywood is not the most cost effective solution. That puts the matter of apple to orange specs up front, and it does something else - it tells the customer that you want to help solve their problem, that you care about how they spend their money. It doesn't always work, and it's not always appropriate, but it is a proactive way of getting past a bid competition without falling into a variables trap.
And then there are people who just plain lie to you... When I first went into business I actively pursued an account with a marina. The property had changed hands and the new owners were upgrading their signage all around. They sent out a bid package with their new logo, asking for bids on carved signs ; when I brought them mine I was specifically told they were comparing two other bids for carved signs . I never heard from them... but two months later new signs appeared - vinyl on aluminum. Needless to say I was annoyed. When I asked about this, they said my price was too high - well, no shyt So what you are telling me is that you asked for bids on carved wood signs, someone gave you a bid for vynull on aluminum, and you accepted that because it was cheaper? At that point he said he "had another call coming in" and hung up without answering. This was my first real lesson about the crap people will pull when it comes to money.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I don't understand why some have an issue with asking to see the other bid. It's an oppotunity to make sure the client is getting an estimate on the same specs. It's common to have both the specs and bids be public when dealing governmental bids and even with some corporate bids. I have gotten some jobs when I pointed out the differences in the details to a client, and in some cases I have also told the client that they should go with the other bid (as long as the company was reputable). I wouldn't get angry or take it personal that the client was shopping unless there was a deliberate attempt at deception, which can happen. After all it's a recommendation in many trade to get three bids when doing any significant type of project.
I actually think the word 'bid' gets mis-used and interchanged when we, or customers might really mean to use is the word 'quote'.
When a business is gettin' 'quotes' they just get whatever each individual sign company comes up with, which is what really happened in Bruce's and Cams cases.
If it's going to be called a 'bid', non-variable specifics needs to be mailed to each bidder and prices taken on that alone.
I'm not sure about individual businesses, but on city or state type bids, if you don't price according to the specs given, and you change them, you would sort of 'disqualify' your own bid. The idea is to follow the directions. This is why sometimes certain companies, or townships, whatever, hire a specific professional to go over a concept and design idea, create a design, and write the bid specs based on the knowledge of the best design/materials and such in that service.
However, bidders are allowed to show revisionary work or make suggestions which would improve upon specifics outlined, which may not be necessarily cheaper, but be better in the long run.
At that point, the bid choosers might revise and remail the bids based upon the change, or send out the revision as an addendum or somethin'. Or they might just go with the company who revised an improvement. This is why sometimes a job, seemingly inexplicabley, will go to the higher bidder, and very often that company will be called on to write bid specs the next time.
Bids basically, and usually boil down to who can get materials a little cheaper, or mabey have a little less labor, or time on something, rather than specifically will actually be done.
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
yes the apples and oranges scenario is what i was getting at. im sorry my post was not clear as to what was in my mind, ill learn to be more descriptive next time and watch to words i use.
but as far as using caps , forget it! we are a lower case world and im adjusting nicely
im not one for asking clients for other bids, it is immaterial to me and it allows me to use the best materials for the job and try and keep the customer looking professional....but as you know alot of them shoot that to hell.
as far as losing bids it is part of the game. but sometimes you really go out of your way and go for the best design and the best impression...and they shoot you down. sometimes i can pick em sometimes i cant.
my comments to this guy were uncalled for and stupid but as i said i was no longer interested in his business after these comments made by him, i figured i had nothing to lose.
in early days if i bid on something and customer said he got bubba down the street to do it for 50% less i would go to 40% less.....whatever it took. im a lil older now and if bubba charged you what you say i would like to see that in bubbas writing.
damn i think i actually spelled everything right now mr whatley aint got nothing to bitch about
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
quote:Originally posted by bruce ward: in early days if i bid on something and customer said he got bubba down the street to do it for 50% less i would go to 40% less.....whatever it took. - - -now mr whatley aint got nothing to bitch about
Actually, if you gave a 40% discount and the other guy gave a 50% discount you're still gonna be higher priced and still not get the job....not that you'd actually want to do it for half price anyway.
-------------------- Pat Whatley Montgomery, AL (334) 262-7446 office (334) 324-8465 cell Posts: 1306 | From: Wetumpka, AL USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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im glad i quit college before i wasted anymore of my money
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
posted
No, Sheila. That was specifically NOT the case in the scenario I spoke of. When a customer hands you a bid package with a logo and specifications, including dimensions and materials, they aren't looking for "see what you come up with". In order to bid competitively, we need to have some expectation that specifications are genuine, and equal to everyone, not something that's going to be changed without notice according to who's bidding. Unfortunately, most of the bidding practices in this industry are a joke - either they are over-specified (think of a project board from an architect, with fifty names on it in 3/4" Helvetica), or demand inappropriate materials, or are so fungible as to be meaningless. That's why I rarely bother to respond to "request for bid" solicitations anymore. And it's also why cheap and ugly wins out most of the time over well-designed and appropriate.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Anyone for a three teired quote to begin with?
How simple is that?
CrazyJack
-------------------- Jack Wills Studio Design Works 1465 E.Hidalgo Circle Nye Beach / Newport, OR Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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This was my first real lesson about the crap people will pull when it comes to money.
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