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Hi Richard! I commend you on your business. More power to you!
Now, about Web design... Whether or not someone has a website doesn't have anything to do with their skills as a signcrafter, or designer. Web Design is quite a specialty, and takes some techno knowledge as well.
NO website is better than a poor one. In my estimation, if someone does not have the skills required to design a great website, then hiring that out is the better choice. I commend Felix for knowing his limitations there and hiring a professional web designer. He did what was in the best interest of his business and hired someone that could showcase HIS work in it's best light.
posted
Mr. Dissinger, Not to "dis" you, but you validate your product by stating that you have 100% feedback on ebay, which I admit is a wonderful thing, but how many of those are for your tape/cutter package? I see that of the current feedback 6 of 13 comments are for the tape only(the rest are products unrealated to the training). Not too hard to satisfy someone with a $32.95 intstructional video, especially if they have no knowledge of the industry, which is who you seem to target. I'd like to see some happy customers who dropped $1000 or more with you on the plotter package. And I'm sure you can include much useful, basic information in a video, but is it really "in depth training for a new career" as you claim? To me the claim that "most sign work is only letters" and "even if you have NO artistic talent" you can be a successful sign maker are at best offensive. Even those ads for mail order art schools assume there is SOME talent already there. As for your forums being evidence that your video is a succesful training tool I saw 10 topics in the Sign Tips/techniques thread with a total of 11 replies, the most recent being in Nov 2005. Not exactly a great endorsement of your "sucess". Everyone has to start somewhere, and your video might be just the thing for some, but the tone of your promotion and even of your own website ($40 sets of mags) cheapens an industry that most here are trying to improve.
Once again I say. No wonder you have so many posts.
You THINK for yourself and INTERPRET for BERRY/BARRY and I am sure he feels fortunate to have you in this role.
I don't dislike your opinion, so do not be sorry for it. In fact, without any first hand knowledge of my Training Video, I don't think what you have is an opinion at all. I think it is more of a need to carve out an identity for yourself, and it is so..so.. much easier to complain than it is to deal with life.
Yes .. we all know that SOMEDAY ...YOU will put up some pictures of Quality DESIGNED work. I am sure that going this slow is a strategy in itself, and when the time is right, and the stars are in perfect alignment, YOU will unvail the creations that we may all behold. On that day, perhaps we may all learn what the ONE REAL THING is also.
DECAL-APPLIERS shall fall to their knees on that historic day, and all sign people shall look toward Alabammy and shout "SHHEE-LAAA SHHEE-LAA"
Take another vallium and go quilt the words "HATE RICHARD.. HATE SIGNTRAINER" on something and settle down. This whole discussion is way beyond your comprehension.
Luv Ya ...Mean It !!
-------------------- Richard Dissinger www.SignTrainer.com "Sign Shop Training Videos for Beginners" Tampa, fl 813-814-7611 wwwAABestSigns.com Posts: 31 | From: Tampa Fl | Registered: Aug 2004
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This topic sure makes for interesting reading.... but I got an idea for you Richard.... why don't you start selling Microsoft Word, or Word Perfect, then all your customers can be authors.... the next day!
-------------------- Barry Tonner Tonner Signs Milton, Ontario tonnersigns@cogeco.net
"Whoever dies with the most fonts wins!" Posts: 28 | From: Milton, Ontario Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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quote: To those who want to smack me up side the head for even suggesting this..... get over it...
I think I changed my mind..... To those who want to smack me up side the head for even suggesting this.....
DO IT!!!!!!!
Richard, don't ever underestimate Sheila's talent.....and don't resort to attacking a persons ego to win.....that is just cruel. I'm done here.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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This is the same tired idiotic argument as hand lettering vs vinyl destroying the biz,just with diff words. Heres the not gonna be popular 100% truth. People here took offense to this video because noone that posts here regularly,puts up stuff on the portfolio page or someone they consider a personal hero made it. Period. If richard lots of accompanying pretty pictures and said he had a section on angel gilding,the same bunch of complaining parrts ould be ooooohing and aaahhhing and praising him telling him how wonderful he was,do everything they could to encourage him even if they had the business and common sense of a sack of turnips.....all the while crapping on the antichrist sentiment of using this biz to actually earn a living yet claiming prices for projrcts,workloads and other embellishments that everyone knows are bs but noone dares say.
Heres a solution,and a simple one. Why doesnt someone that hates this video so much or the principle of it make their own video called YOU CANT A DIME IN THE SIGN BUSINESS UNLESS YOU HAVE ARTISTIC TALENT APPROVED BY LETTERVILLE. Is anyone gonna do that? No....but now because i said that 10 people will post the usual "this business is about certain things people dont understand and heres a longwinded meldrama of why post". This is just like the handlettering vs vinyl argument,just diff words. Once again,does anyone here make videos explaining that or deidcate threads to it? No,they say oh it cant be done,until Ray Chapman posts a monthly article about it in a magazine that passes without a mention. I realize this whole something to do drama isnt what barry started out with when he posted this....but,it takes a lotta nerve and false bravado to jump into this,pretty muchdeclare him a piece of crap ruining the sign industry and use the pile on mentality place blame on him instead of individual senses of complacency and entitlement.......then demand and explanation from him because he came here defending himself???? Gimme a break.....good on him for telling you all to stick it somewhere because under the circumstances he doesnt owe anyone here a damn thing. You dont like it,make your own video and sell it
-------------------- Gavin Chachere Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.
"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two" Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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I can't remember the last time I felt as insulted as I did when I looked at that website.
Is it any wonder so many people complain about our prices? After all, it only took us $49 and 90 minutes to become the professionals we are, right?
Do I think a realistic training video would be a benefit for companies to use for orientation when hiring new employees? Absolutely. Do I think it needs to be realistic and respectful to professionals? Absolutely. Do I think this is it? From the insults to the professionals in our trade and the misconceptions that are on that website, not a chance.
Actions speak louder than words. When given the opportunity to defend the video here, instead of showing professionalism, he chose to throw stones and personally attack our members.
Gavin, I was offended by the video due to it's being promoted by insulting our profession, not because of who made it. Although, after the posts on this thread, yes I am offended by the maker.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Thanks Bill for visiting BOTH my websites and e-bay. It is good to have such dedicated interest. Bill, your research is faulty on e-bay. I have sold a few other things, like cutters and printers, but most all of my feedbacks are Training Video related. You might be genuinely confused since after a while, the product itself can no longer be identified, so it is hard to get a good handle on these statistics.
As for my website response, I get a LOT of questions on my regular e-mail address, or as stated on the website at www.ask@signtrainer.com and they do not show on the website. I have just recently started asking people to post their questions THERE instead, but, until I quit telling them to send to ask@signtrainer.com, I guess I cannot expect any different. I commend you on your detail work here.
$40 magnetic signs ... well, actually SOME of the shops here in Tampa sell them at $29 ...so I could be consider HIGH PRICED in some local circles.
I do not say " No ARTISTIC TALENT" .. I do say you can do it even if you have no ARTIST skills. There is a big difference. I am NOT an ARTIST, but I am ARTISTIC in my thinking. I cannot draw the item with a pen/pencil, but I can use/maniplulate clip art to do the right job. These skills are also taught in the training video.
I do not mind your scrutiny and have enjoyed clearing up the confusion. I hope I have done so to YOUR satisfaction.
-------------------- Richard Dissinger www.SignTrainer.com "Sign Shop Training Videos for Beginners" Tampa, fl 813-814-7611 wwwAABestSigns.com Posts: 31 | From: Tampa Fl | Registered: Aug 2004
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I'm not even going to start talking aobut your video, you can do whatever you want, it doesn't bother me, but what really gets to me is the way you are treating people here. You have no idea who the people are that you are insulting, you obviously researched some of their other posts and found out that Sheila for example likes to quilt. Big deal, so now you treat her like she is not a professional sign maker? Or do you want me to ram your KELLY/KELLEY mistake down your throat? What is this, Kindergarten? I'm sure you have a lot of important things to do, don't let us hold you back.
I guess YOU wanted some of my personal attention also, so here it is. Thanks for visiting my website, but if it gave you a nosebleed...don't do it again. It may not be healthy for you.
I defend my video at every opportunity, but those who hurl stones AT me .. get stones back. Probably, mostly due to my ability to polish stones to a brilliance that fly back with such skill and effectiveness.
I gather from YOUR comments that you will NOT be ordering a training video real soon??
SUMMARY - you do not like the existance of the video, you do not like the author, you do not like the way I defend myself from OTHERS' attacks, you do not like GAVIN for having a different opinion from YOURS, and you do not like customers who complain about your prices.
I hesitate to ask this, but do you like little puppies, or are they smelly-little fuzz-shedding poop machines that stink up their surroundings??
OK ..you have had your moment of fame with me. I sit here crushed and unable to go on. One more MALE with a bad attitude that YOU have vanquished. Is YOUR life a little better now??
(P.S. - I made up most of that!)
All this over a video you have not seen, over content you do not know, and promises and insults that are all in your mind.
I noticed that YOUR website is not operational either ...do you need some help with it? Some design advice? Something??
-------------------- Richard Dissinger www.SignTrainer.com "Sign Shop Training Videos for Beginners" Tampa, fl 813-814-7611 wwwAABestSigns.com Posts: 31 | From: Tampa Fl | Registered: Aug 2004
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Lotti .. I treat people pretty much the same as they treat me. Occasionally, I over-react and when faced with it, I apologize. That does NOT seem to be likely here. You have read the posts, and you gotta admit, they are not very friendly. Yes, I do research, just like I did You before answering this. You say you like everything beautiful and cool. Well .. is it beautiful OR cool for all these people to badmouth a product they have never seen and attempt to make others feel it is bad? Would it be MORE beautiful or MORE cool if I had NO pride in my work, and I just accepted these silly little attacks quietly?? How quiet would YOU be if they all ganged up on YOU because of a sign job you did, that they did not ever see, but decides somehow your choice a a particular font was so objectionable, that they made up lies about you, and tried to make you look bad to others??
I will bet you would respond at least the same. Keep in mind, I am only defending myself.
I will tell EVERYBODY here that I have received 7 e-mails DIRECTLY to me today, from people on this board, who are secretly applauding my efforts here, and apologizing for the rest who are being so unkind. More than one of these have their names in THIS thread. I will not say who they are, but to all of them I do say again ... THANK YOU!
-------------------- Richard Dissinger www.SignTrainer.com "Sign Shop Training Videos for Beginners" Tampa, fl 813-814-7611 wwwAABestSigns.com Posts: 31 | From: Tampa Fl | Registered: Aug 2004
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You have a lot of nerve Mr. Dissinger responding the way you do. Just because many question your ethics, skills, and motives does not give you the right to defend yourself!
There is protocol here and one thing is, until you have done at least 200 posts, kissed ample arses, flattered those that never seem to get enough, you then can then proceed to show a little backbone.
These people know the rules now you learn them.
-------------------- Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Posts: 2785 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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Richard, I would not be pleased if I was in your shoes, granted, it is not cool to be attacked. But my impression was that most people have critizised your product, not your person. In turn, to defend yourself as you say, you have ridiculed and attacked people on a personal level. Can you see what I mean?
posted
I'm not 7, I don't need attention from personal attacks about what you want to think I said. You have shown your true colors quite clearly in this thread. Moment of fame with you? You're inferring an awful lot about my thoughts of you from my post. Please stop flattering yourself at my expense.
Evidently you never learned that niceness and maturity and civility goes a lot farther than childish stone-throwing. Thought everyone learned that on the playground in kindergarten.
I'm not upset with Gavin at all. I consider him a friend. I also don't have a problem disagreeing with a friend. I just don't find it necessary to resort to childish antics such as name-calling and stone-throwing.
Had you taken the time to read my post, you would see that my problem is the insulting way the promotion of your video portrays our industry. I did not say I didn't like the existance of the video, I think a REALISTIC video that doesn't insult the professionals in this trade would be a great tool for orientation when hiring new employees. Telling someone they can learn everything they need to know about the sign business in 90 minutes is not realistic. My own personal ethics say it's false advertising, but that's just my personal ethics. Perhaps the video isn't insulting, but the way it is promoted is. If I were looking for a video to show employees, it certainly wouldn't be 1 where the promotion of it insults me!
There was a post here recently about finding out how your customers see you. You have been given truthful feedback on how professionals in this industry see your video business. A smart business person would use that information to their benefit. But instead of asking how your site could be improved, you chose to insult us. Or did I imagine that too like you think I imagined the insults on your website?
As for my website, as if it's any of your business, I changed servers and decided it was the perfect time to do a complete revamp. If I wanted design advice, I'd ask Nettie. She's a true professional which is clear from the numerous websites she's designed.
You can insult me all you want, you can continue to twist my words into whatever you want them to say, I really couldn't care less about you.
I would suggest that if you continue to insist on hawking your video here, contact the site owners & pay the merchant fee. If not, the door is to your left.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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"Bill, your research is faulty on e-bay. I have sold a few other things, like cutters and printers, but most all of my feedbacks are Training Video related. You might be genuinely confused since after a while, the product itself can no longer be identified, so it is hard to get a good handle on these statistics." I don't think I'm confused, I said that 6 of 13 feedbacks were for the video,those are the last 13 that are available for viewing, if you're saying that all the other older ones are for your video, then fine, that is great. As for your other website(http://www.ask@signtrainer.com/) I tried to check it out, but the link didn't work. You are right, there is a difference between skill and talent. But I still don't believe that someone with no artistic skill could make $100,000 or more a year inn this business after watching a video. Much less selling $40 sets of magnets, at least not vinyl lettered ones sold one set at a time.
DAVID .. You are so right, I will try to learn from your wisdom, although I think I am getting it anyway. At this rate I will have those 200 -posts by days end.
LOTTI ..If you think those who have been attacking me were not making it personal, you may wish to look back through them again. YOU have been one of the nicer ones, and even you are not exactly part of my fan club. (no insult intended here). I simply researched their own complaints vs. their own sites and found them to be mostly violating their own accusations, and mentioned it ...OK, Hurled it back!! ... HARD !!
KISSYMATINA .. I still have to say, I see why you have so many posts. You get really worked up over all this, and I imagine everything else. I recognize this because I am kinda like that also, but.. when I respond, my words have continuous flow. You are all over the place. Kinda like a stopped up toilet, just going everyplace at once.
I am willing to bet that YOU can argue with a one-word sentence, so, here goes .......
HELLO
(you respond here. I'll go get the plunger)
-------------------- Richard Dissinger www.SignTrainer.com "Sign Shop Training Videos for Beginners" Tampa, fl 813-814-7611 wwwAABestSigns.com Posts: 31 | From: Tampa Fl | Registered: Aug 2004
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Welcome to Letterville Richard. You seem to be one brave fellow. In my opinion you won't win your argument here any more than anyone else will win theirs. Our views are so very much different. I'm not about to change my view and I think you probably formly believe in yours. It doesn't make us enemies.
Some (including me) believe to make a really great sign you do indeed need some artisitic talent. I believe you also need years of hands-on experience. A passion to learn will take you a long ways. The signs I make come from my heart. Although I do indeed make a very good living at it, the sign business isn't about the money in my book.
Others believe that making signs is just a way to make money. The art isn't a big deal. Much of the sign industry is in this boat. Good looking signs aren't the priority or the norm from these shops.
Your video may well help beginners to achieve a similar quality sign to much of what we see out there... merely LETTERS stuck on a flat substrate. In my humble opinion that is what is largely wrong with the sign industry. Pleasing signs are SO MUCH more than that.
Let me go on to say that your product does not offend me. It makes me sad. I have spent a lifetime developing my skills and gathering knowlege. To see it trivialized and made to be so simple you can suggest that someone can do this craft by watching a 90 minute video is a bit of a stretch in my mind.
Your design skills are evident in the layout of your web page. Sadly, the bar for quality is not often raised in this business. What distresses most veterans of the sign industry (including those on this forum)is that anyone who can make the commitment to purchase the necessary equipment has the instant ability to open the doors to a sign shop and become instant experts. IN MY EXPERIENCE THIS SIMPLY IS NOT POSSIBLE.
Your video furthers that myth.
Good luck to you Richard. And good luck to those who must compete daily with the people he would encourage to get into this business.
-grampa dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8738 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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Dan .. I agree with a whole lot of what you say. Those who have a natural ( or by training ) talent as an artist get higher rewards for that talent. I personally have MARGINAL "artist" skills, and rely heavily on clipart, and manipulation of clipart. My own drawing of trucks and vans look a whole lot like Turtles caught in a drink mixxing machine. As I look back on my own website, my truck lettering, my business cards, and even my shoes, I say "Gee ,I wish I had done it THIS other way", but this can go on forever, so you choose a path and try to make it work, then improve occasionally.
Once again.. my video does not create instant sign people. It gives them training, good training, hopefully they build on it and get better. NEWBIES !!
Thanks for the post.
-------------------- Richard Dissinger www.SignTrainer.com "Sign Shop Training Videos for Beginners" Tampa, fl 813-814-7611 wwwAABestSigns.com Posts: 31 | From: Tampa Fl | Registered: Aug 2004
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Steve is not on vacation. How can you afford to do anything when you run a fulltime website that allows people to advertise for free. I'm not picking on Richard. My so called friends do it all the time too.
I want the name calling to stop right now! That's not the way we do things here. There are some important discussions we can have in this thread without bashing each others point of view. Change the tone now or I will toss the whole thing out.
Go back and read David Wright's post. I'm sure it is done tounge in cheek, but there may be a ring of truth in it. Forget the mob mentality and show some tolerance for the views of others. In the meantime, I'll continue to peck away at my own thoughts. It takes ages with two fingers.
-------------------- Steve Shortreed 144 Hill St., E. Fergus, Ontario Canada N1M 1G9 519-787-2673
You know, I was gonna post a nice long blab in response to you, Rich, but now I don't have to. I can just say , "What Dan said."
Especially that part about it making a guy sad. I relate to that.Although I am not as nice as Dan. It aggravates me too. Most everyone here are commited to the craft. Dedicated to contributing to an artform that more and more is being taken over by folks like you. No personal offense intended. But you cut the heart out of what we love, and throw it away as un-necessary. Sheesh. How can that ever be a good thing?
That having been said: If you aren't gonna pay for the url listing you really oughta remove it. It isn't fair to those who pay for the privilege. That's experience talking. (wink and nudge to those to whom it matters.)
Anywhoo, I wish you nothing but good, but I wish it was a something else.
BTW Sheila and others thanks for your words.
[ February 15, 2006, 03:26 PM: Message edited by: Barry Branscum ]
Posts: 2500 | From: Clinton, AR USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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BTW...who was the guy that started this whole thing? hahahahahahaha
Richard. If you are truly interested in a serious discussion, please knock off the links. We get the idea. Most of us are already longtime pros and probally not your target audience. If you do benefit from Letterville, send us a percentage.
[ February 15, 2006, 06:40 PM: Message edited by: Steve Shortreed ]
-------------------- Steve Shortreed 144 Hill St., E. Fergus, Ontario Canada N1M 1G9 519-787-2673
I'm not sorry for my opinion, it still stands. In a different form now, I think your web page is tacky.
And I certainly don't have to 'prove' anything to maintain my opinion.
And while I do appreciate kind words from my peers on their personal opinions of my talent, your personal opinion that I have none, means nothing to me.
I think the more important point to make, is you are among a people STRIVING everyday to improve upon their skills.
If you can honestly say you care about that, and still advertise in the manner you do, you're simply blind.
As far as I'm concerned that IS the discussion.
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
This is nothing but a constant provoking of every one to put his posts on TOP.
, Can we say troll?
Defined as::: synonymous with flamebait. As a verb, to post controversial or provocative messages in a deliberate attempt to provoke flames.
A troll is a person who posts rude or offensive or provocative messages on BBS's and online discussion forums, to disrupt discussion or to upset its participants or to garner top position... "Troll" can also mean the message itself or be a verb meaning to post such messages. "Trolling" is also commonly used to describe the activity. He doesnt post here except to expound his junk..,,, Stop responding to this troll junk and he will soon disappear.
Is it time for steve or barb to consider locking this thread?,,,
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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hey richard! so far i like ya! you go guy! i don't care what your site looks like or what you are selling...frankly i've seen some pretty lameass sites from some of the posers here...hell even mine sucks. i don't blame you one bit for checking out this link wondering wtf am i getting so many hits...see, letterville does have numbers...and most of the folks here are awesome. you have every right to defend yourself...afterall i'm sure barry nearly shyt himself when you actually showed up...can't fault ya for that. i don't know what kind of work you do or your specialty so i won't tell you that you suck...but i think you've been fair to the people who've attacked you....and just so you know...those people wouldn't have reacted any differently if the shoe was on the other foot...whether it be a training cd, flames, clipart, or porn.
hang in there...200 posts goes by really quick for some folks.
-------------------- Karyn Bush Simply Not Ordinary, LLC Bartlett, NH 603-383-9955 www.snosigns.com info@snosigns.com Posts: 3516 | From: Bartlett, NH USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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I can't blame Richard for coming here to defend his product. After all, it was one of us that fired the first shot. Who can blame anyone, friend or foe, from getting some free publicity in the most read Forum available. I'll bet the same discussion is happening on other Forums as well. Oh well, it's only fair that he gets the opportunity to defend himself.
Most of us here in Letterville are not just signmakers. We are Letterheads. To a Letterhead, their work is everything. It's not uncomman to hear younger Letterheads comment that the work is much more important than the money. Letterheads are constantly exposed to the very best signwork out there. Many of us can spot every flaw. It drives us completely nuts. In a nutshell....we are fanatics.
There is nothing wrong with the above, but we must learn to at least recognize that there is a majority of people in the sign industry that have no idea, or even care to know about things like layout, design, and the other things us Letterheads lay awake at night thinking about. They are making lots of money because there is a buying public out there that just cannot recognize the value of a well designed sign.
This is nothing new, and it is by no means restricted to the sign business. Imagine how the well trained musician must fell watching some of today's "musicians" get rich off a public that no longer is aware and/or appreciates what most of us consider good music. Take a look at what we were wearing in the 70's!
The money comment seems to really burn many of us. Is it really possible to make 6 figures in one person shop? If we are talking gross sales, I don't know how a shop can survive without doing over 100 grand. If your family shop is your sole source of income, you gotta be doing more than that. I personally never took home 100 grand myself, but I know of many other Letterheads that do so on a regular basis. BTW...at 53, with 5 kids and a mortgage, I've changed my thinking about the importance of money.
We are not the only ones interested in making more money and enjoying the lifestyle that goes with it. There are those out there without it, that will continue to preach that more money is evil and cannot by happiness. That may be true, but most of us would agree it would be nice to be unhappy on a beach somewhere or a nicer side of town. People are always looking for new ways to increase their income. That's our way of life.
Richard's video is geared towards those people. He is a smart salesman that sees an opportunity and wants to profit from it. He's no different than the companies that developed the software and hardware that made it possible for us to make more faster. They also recognize that there are all sorts of others out there looking to make a partime income. Browze thru any of the new opportunity type publications and you will find some of our suppliers. We live in a World of Do It Yourself.
I understand the anger and frustration many oldtimers feel. Let's face it. When we pulled up at a job and pulled out our paint and brushes, we were really something special. The public was in awe of skills that took many years of practise to master. Today's technologies, products like Richards, the news stories of patients and inmates becoming signmakers, etc. can make many of us feel we wasted our lives. But only if we decide that's what we want to do.
It's easy to complain and blame others for the situations we find ourselves in. Ask me how I know. Getting up and doing whatever it takes to change your situation isn't easy. Making fun of guys like Richard and all the other signmakers that don't agree with our way of thinking is not going to accomplish anything. You may be able to brag on chat that you got in the best shot, but that is not going to put more food on your table. We cannot expect to do things the same old way and not get the same old results. There is no gain without pain. Stop the bitching.
Welcome to Letterville Richard. As a professional sign designer, some of your comments are insulting if I choose to take them personally. I don't. I believe they were made to appeal to someone in the general public that wants more and is looking for ways to do that. I'd prefer that they didn't intrude into my chosen profession, but I do understand the need and desire to create additionanl income.
Please show respect for the Letterhead Philosophy and the users of Letterville Richard. You are in our World now. You may be able to teach people how to cut letters and make perfect ugly signs in a day, but I suggest you then send them to Letterville and give us a shot at teaching them to make signs like this. It's going to take a few years of hard work, but some may want to shoot for the Moon.
[ February 15, 2006, 06:22 PM: Message edited by: Steve Shortreed ]
-------------------- Steve Shortreed 144 Hill St., E. Fergus, Ontario Canada N1M 1G9 519-787-2673
posted
The thing about this whole business is with the creation of the computer/plotter package many years ago, the door was opened for anyone that wanted to, to get into the sign business. I have 12 people here in town that have plotters and are making signs. Since I mainly do custom work and high end signs, their stuff hasnt affected me, at least on the books. Thats not to say that I dont do signs for people that want something cheaper. I still do magnetics, coro signs, etc. cause its money in the bank. Richard decided he could put out his video and make some bucks while maybe showing "newbies" the right way from the start how to do things. If Im not mistaken, there are other videos out there on vinyl application, layout, etc. that deal with this business. Its been done before, and it will be done again. We have to understand that video or not, there are thousands of potential "signmakers" out there trying and learning, and who is to say they wont end up being great designers in their own right. Ive cursed the plotter before, cause it made it so easy to be a signmaker and took away from an age old craft that spawned many talented hand letterers and designers, but I dont think its the right thing to do to belittle this fella cause he made a video to show people how to do it right. I like every damn one of you on here, even ol gavin , but this aint what letterheads is about, and Im pretty sure of that.
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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Thank you ( a lot ) for your words of fairness. I looked at your link and those really are CLASS-ACT signs, and quite honestly my training course does NOT go into THAT type of detail. I focus on vinyl signs and a lot of truck lettering. That is because those are the primary fields that I make money in. I have , over the last 10 years, had bucket trucks, crane trucks, CNC routers, CNC foam cutting equipment, flatbed presses and more. I eventually sold all of them because they were not as efficient (for me) as the truck/boat lettering, 4x8 signs, and screen printing.
Geography has a lot to do with it. In Florida I do not see the same numbers of CARVED signs as I do elsewhere in the country, but I do see a BUNCH of trucks & boats that want to be lettered.
Florida also has some tough rules for installation of the kinds of signs shown in your link, and the people who are allowed to install them. Even though I did have a contractor's license in this state, I allowed it to lapse since I do not wish to install things like this any more (this had to do with a stroke I had 3 yrs ago).
Again .. thanks for the warm welcome. It's certainly far removed from the sizzlin' welcome I WAS getting.
-------------------- Richard Dissinger www.SignTrainer.com "Sign Shop Training Videos for Beginners" Tampa, fl 813-814-7611 wwwAABestSigns.com Posts: 31 | From: Tampa Fl | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
I won't pass any judgement on this video tape. I can't because I didn't see it. I am going to buy one though. Then I will be able to. Hell, I wasted at least 49 bucks in crap cd's that bite the big one last year alone.
As far as that E-Bay line of thought goes, all the rating means is that everyone who ordered a tape, got one. That's it. It has no bearing on whether or not anyone actually derived any value out of it.
The reasoning behind why anyone would purchase it to use it as a training tape to train employees also escapes me. Why would anyone show an employee a tape that tells them how much money they are going to make being in the sign business and then give them a chance to steal the customer list on their way out the door?
Here is some important financial advice from me as I see things:
If I bought a tape and sign making package for just about a grand one year ago, the tape would still be worth at least 20 bucks to a potential buyerand that state of the art DingTech cutter would have to be worth somewhere in the neighborhood of $150.00.
But, if I had purchased $1,000.00 of Nortel stock one year ago, it would now be worth $49.00. With Enron, I would have $16.50 left of the original $1,000.00 and with a WorldCom stock purchase, of $1000.00 I would have less than $5.00 left.
But, since I had purchased $1,000.00 worth of beer one year ago, drank all the beer, then turned in the cans for the aluminum recycling REFUND, I now have $214.00.
Based on the above, the best current investment advice is to drink heavily and recycle...
I call it my 401Keg plan.
The chinese is on me tomorrow only. Lunch reservations must be made by 10:00 am and you have to be here to pick me up no later that 11:30.
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
...oh Richard, you are gonna fit in real good on here....if you stick around, that is.
But listen.....don't EVER talk about religion or politics around here...you think you got blasted for your site and video....son, you ain't seen nuttin' yet!
Welcome to the wacky world of sign folk!
-------------------- Jackson Smart Jackson's Signs Port Angeles, WA ...."The Straits of Juan De Fuca in my front yard and Olympic National Park in my backyard...
"Living on Earth is expensive...but it does include a free trip around the Sun" Posts: 1000 | From: Port Angeles, Washington | Registered: Jan 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Gavin Chachere: This is the same tired idiotic argument as hand lettering vs vinyl destroying the biz,just with diff words. Heres the not gonna be popular 100% truth. People here took offense to this video because noone that posts here regularly,puts up stuff on the portfolio page or someone they consider a personal hero made it. Period. If richard lots of accompanying pretty pictures and said he had a section on angel gilding,the same bunch of complaining parrts ould be ooooohing and aaahhhing and praising him telling him how wonderful he was,do everything they could to encourage him even if they had the business and common sense of a sack of turnips.....all the while crapping on the antichrist sentiment of using this biz to actually earn a living yet claiming prices for projrcts,workloads and other embellishments that everyone knows are bs but noone dares say.
Heres a solution,and a simple one. Why doesnt someone that hates this video so much or the principle of it make their own video called YOU CANT A DIME IN THE SIGN BUSINESS UNLESS YOU HAVE ARTISTIC TALENT APPROVED BY LETTERVILLE. Is anyone gonna do that? No....but now because i said that 10 people will post the usual "this business is about certain things people dont understand and heres a longwinded meldrama of why post". This is just like the handlettering vs vinyl argument,just diff words. Once again,does anyone here make videos explaining that or deidcate threads to it? No,they say oh it cant be done,until Ray Chapman posts a monthly article about it in a magazine that passes without a mention. I realize this whole something to do drama isnt what barry started out with when he posted this....but,it takes a lotta nerve and false bravado to jump into this,pretty muchdeclare him a piece of crap ruining the sign industry and use the pile on mentality place blame on him instead of individual senses of complacency and entitlement.......then demand and explanation from him because he came here defending himself???? Gimme a break.....good on him for telling you all to stick it somewhere because under the circumstances he doesnt owe anyone here a damn thing. You dont like it,make your own video and sell it
Great response Gavin. Methinks this is funny, because Richard is laughing all the way to the bank. Probably making more than a lot of the "professionals" here without working too hard either.
-------------------- Drane Signs Sunshine Coast Nambour, Qld. dranesigns@bigpond.com Downunder "To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer" Posts: 965 | From: Nambour, Qld. Australia | Registered: Nov 1998
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Topic Closed
![[Rolling On The Floor]](graemlins/rolf.gif)
You're inferring an awful lot about my thoughts of you from my post. Please stop flattering yourself at my expense.
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![[Wink]](wink.gif)
(wink and nudge to those to whom it matters.)
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