"Yes ,you too can become another of the many sign shops that go belly up in no time becuase you think this self help video is going to make you rich without any backround in color theory, design, layout, font identification or basic motor skills. Just order now and our certified sign specialist, Lance Bubbles, will show you how to slap red and black vinyl on in no time at all. Order now and for no extra cost, we'll sell your name to as many bulk mailing lists as possible, thus making sure that your name "gets out there". Act now for this free promotional bonus. Also included is a huge list of business names that all start with the letter "a" to insure that your right up on the top of the list in the phone book. Why work for a living when you can prentend to? CALL NOW!!!"
Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
I seem to recall we exposed this get rich quick scheme before here about a year or two ago. Nothing new there. The only one making six figures is the guy that's smart enough to sell the video.
-------------------- Bob Stephens Skywatch Signs Zephyrhills, FL
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3512 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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Don't let them fool ya. I had to watch the tape thre, no theer no Three ya thats it three times before I could open up my own shop. Hey,did you know that if you lay another color of vinyl on top of another and you slip it makes a drop shadow. Maybe Iam advanced but, I still am going to wait for tape #2 Advanced Sign Graphics Techniques, they probably go into that in depth and I don't want to get ahead of myself.
-------------------- Sam Staffan Mackinaw Art & Sign 721 S. Nokomis St. Mackinaw City, MI dstaffan@sbcglobal.net Posts: 1706 | From: Mackinaw City, MI | Registered: Mar 2004
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My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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Gosh, them guys is dumb. I already got Corel. If I copy the layouts and elements from their web page, I can at least be a graffick artiste for free.
-------------------- Bruce Williams Lexington KY Posts: 945 | From: Lexington, KY, USA | Registered: Mar 1999
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While its not the best website or forum ever seen,its far from the worst. Put aside the names next to some of the posts here and you will find similar posts,and at times posts from folks that can be quite surprising because you would assume they know better or would just do their own homework after X# of yrs in the biz. In this day and age we should applaud anyone who makes any effort to ram home the point to ANYONE entering this business (esp being self employed) that business skill is needed and you are not entitled to a certain percentage of the business because you feel you have or some friends of yours once told you that you have this great artistic talent. All too often here everyone craps on stuff like this because its easy to do so,but put a sign guy(or woman) up here,let em post a picture of something everyone thinks looks pretty and have em declare their wish that their last name was sawatzsky,and let them complain about their boss and there will be no end to the number that tells them "you have talent you should be on your own"......regardless of the fact that the largest percentage of this type do not have any desire to deal with nor even the knowledge of taxes,cost of goods,profit percentages,deadlines,employee egos or any of the other day to day business things necessary for being self employed without getting in over your own head....... and we also ignore the fact,rather just dont mention it,that more than likely everyone would be shocked at the actual prices these folks work for just trying to make ends meet. Encouraging someone to enter into a business because they have the talent but not the business sense is the exact same thing as encouraging someone who has the business sense but not the talent whether anyone wants to believe that or not.......and in the end,the former is going to struggle,lowball and seem bitter about their chosen business far more often than the latter.
-------------------- Gavin Chachere Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.
"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two" Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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"even if you have no artist's talent, you can make lots of money" Why is he wrong? That is a true statement. The video is reasonably priced also, about what it's worth I presume.
I have seen crap advice sold here by merchants that everyone went ga-ga over. From what I have seen, mostly useless advice.
-------------------- Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Posts: 2788 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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That's fine that they sell their how-to video, but to state that "most sign work is letters only" is such an outrageous statement. Even the pictures they show on their website have graphic elements in them.
I also like how they give an example after that statement - Most Sign Work is Letters Only (i.e. A,B,C) hahahaha I got a good chuckle out of that.
-------------------- Randy Graphic Details Promotional Merchandise Distributor South Glens Falls, NY Posts: 381 | From: South Glens Falls, NY USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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"Call now if YOU want to be finacially INDEPENDENT! - Don't delay! Learn how hundreds of people just like you doubled, yes even trippled, and QUADRUPLED their income without ever leaving home!! Call now toll free 1-800-.....!!"
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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All my sign advice comes with a 100% money back guarantee. If for any reason, anyone is ever disatisfied with my advice.....Please email me and I'll send you a refund form.
Edit: Oh, and if after watching the video you make a buck - it's sheer luck.
posted
I'm impressed by the brand of plotter- "DingTech"- sounds like an accident that's either waiting to happen, or has just happened
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7027 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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I have gotten over 400 new visits to my www.SignTrainer.com website in the last 5 days, and traced many of them back to this thread. Thanks for the exposure but here are a few FACTS that you seem to have missed.
This 90 minute Sign Shop Training Video teaches Beginners how to operate software, design, choose colors & fonts, measure the job, weed, apply (wet and dry),run the cutters, pick a business name, deal with bubbles, establish prices,an a lot more. This is a lot info for a small price.
When I state in my training video that " ..from MY EXPERIENCE, most sign work is ABC's not graphics art" the key words are "..MY EXPERIENCE". I cover hand tracing and node editing briefly in the training video and my own graphics skills are very sharp ... but ... most of my work is still ABCs. I am certain that many others share this same trend, while the rest can honestly say THEIR EXPERIENCES are different.
Your remarks seem to paint me out to be a fraud/manipulator/conman or something of that sort. I have sold about 226 of these in the last 2.5 years, with ZERO complaints. If I ever had someone who felt I cheated or mislead them about this training video, I would be all over them with ways to make it up to them ...and then some !!!
If you and anyone else who is interested, cares to look at my e-bay ad at:
.. you will see that my words are realistic, and that I have 100% POSITIVE FEEDBACK. All of my customers are happy with this training video. The difference is .. THEY have seen and learned from it ...You guys have NOT! You just sit around and pick at it, even though you have ZERO knowledge of it's content. I cannot stop you, if that is really all you want to do, but I can explain it better for those who read your posts and get a false impression.
If I was selling, or promising, false expectations, SOMEONE ( or a LOT of someones ) would have caught on and my feedback would reflect it.
I have 10 yrs in signs, an additional 5 yrs in newspaper publishing and ad layout, and a total span of 20 yrs in shirt printing. I don't think, with all that experience, that is is such a surprise that someone like me could come up with a training video that WORKS.
My video does not create ill-prepared HACKS. It has enough information and examples to train a formidable competitor for anyone who is reading this. I don't hear consistantly from EVERYONE who has bought my training video, but, through my own User Forum, I have heard from enough to know that they are out there making money, apparently well trained in enough phases to make their customers happy, and certainly happy with ME !!
I do not teach people to undercut prices, and if they pay attention to all I teach, they will certainly not be throwing out SHODDY work.
I have read a number of posts on this forum, and others, and many HELPFUL sign people make MANY attempts to help MANY others. The only difference between them and me is that I have made it into a complete course, not just bits and pieces.
It was never meant to be a punishing blow to the sign industry, or an attempt to hurt/deceive or rip off anyone. It was/is a small ... but proud project that has survived for this long. I am actually thinking about a screen printing version also .. so just imagine how many new people can be mad at me then.
I hope this explains my position and clarifies some of the incorrect posts made by a few who seem very threatened by this training video. Oh yeah ... if your business cannot achieve 6 figures, perhaps you should order one .. it's not too late!!
posted
Richard, It's easy to dupe disillusioned people, who, by the way, will praise you all the way to bankruptcy (ever watch an info-mercial?). But can you sleep at night? If you're program is so great, why not enlighten the sign industry and advertise in the national trade magazines? You'd make millions! By the sounds of it, you're hooking enough suckers this way to add nicely to your retirement without exposing yourself to the harsh light of day. I'm proud to say that this board is not full of victims looking / waiting for the next get rich quick scheme, and I applaud Berry for exposing you.
-------------------- Tim Whitcher Adrian, MI Posts: 1546 | From: Adrian, MI | Registered: Mar 1999
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Tim ... Let me get this straight. You know NOTHING about my video, except that Berry (actually I think you are referring to Barry), has in your words "Exposed" me, when all I see, is that BERRY made one small criticism, which I do not see as a RIVITING ESPOSE'. What's more, I seem to have hynotized the masses with my Magical powers, that work on everyone but YOU and BERRY! I will bet that if YOU could have that type of power, you would use it ... but alas .. you do not!
Even with all that sinister power going for me and mindless masses of followers, according to YOU, if I only take YOUR advice and advertise in a nat'l trade magazine, I will somehow turn this into an honest fortune ??!!??
Tim ... you need to reduce your salt intake, and lay off the sugar. It is having an effect on your mental process.
To sum it up Tim ( and others) this is not a plot to invade your planet, or overthrow freedom... It is a small, low priced, training video that, customers are happy with, that teaches a trade. Finding 2-5 words that you feel could be stated somewhat differently, and building a whole deafening scream of rage over them, won't convince anyone not to buy ... only to look at it more closely to see what it is about. That is EXACTLY what is happening right now, and I thank you for it!
I sell this training video to established sign shops all around the country and Canada, also. They use it as a training video for new employees. Even though the equipment and software is rarely the same as their own, It does give the new employee a tremendous start in a predictable way, into techniques and terms. I guess THEY are all somehow wrong also.
To anyone who wishes to "EXPOSE" me some more I say ...DO IT ...PLEASE !!! (seriously ..do it ...Please!!)
I hope you return to read the replies to your post:
First, let me say I applaud you for posting a reply. That takes guts, so, thank you for your response.....However:
While I appreciate your point about your video being a complete resource rather than learning in bits & pieces, Barry's point is that your website paints the sign industry as a get rich quick scheme. This couldn't be farther from the truth.
First off, take a look at anybody's website here. Your's looks like a circus wagon, not at all "designed" but resembling a hack job one of our vinyl jockeys competitors might do.
Secondly: We, like many others here are not profiting six figures.... not even close. Maybe you are, good for you. That just further proves Barry's point. But, the lions share of us are doing this because we really love the craft, not to get rich. If we happen to make 100K, that's just a bonus.
edited cause I cannot spell
[ February 15, 2006, 08:47 AM: Message edited by: Rick Beisiegel ]
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3512 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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If that helps you sleep at night, to each his own. You never did answer my question; if your tape is so great, why not promote it through the proper venues? Maybe in the classifieds of "Opportunity Magazine".
-------------------- Tim Whitcher Adrian, MI Posts: 1546 | From: Adrian, MI | Registered: Mar 1999
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Rick .. Thank you for the COMPLIMENTARY side of your post. I will try to clarify the rest of it here.
I state pretty clearly that this is not a get-rich-quick scam, and in my own words "a normal business with a normal business work effort". I state that " Sign Businesses CAN make 6 figure incomes". This statement is very much TRUE. Will everybody ... in every size community ... make this? Probably not... but lots do even under seemingly limited conditions. Others can be in a million + city and fail for a variety of reasons.
As far as my website goes .. I see a variety of websites that I think need improvement also .. AND I sometimes think about changing my own ... but ..there is no all-perfect model just like there is no all-perfect Resume', so I will leave it as-is, at least for NOW. Although, keep in mind that I am not selling web site training.
I very much like what I do also. I seem to be good at it, and I make good money from it, just like YOU.
Once again , I do refer you (and others) to my 100% POSITIVE feedback, and re-state that in THEIR role as my customers, they are happy. If YOU have a sign customer base that is happy with YOUR work, then do you still need the approval of the rest of the sign people in your region? I know the answer to that is "NO" !!
A simple " ..there goes the neighborhood" approach is not realistic in today's american society. Other people want to pursue THEIR work futures also, especially in a time where so many are being forced out of work by jobs being shipped overseas. I am not training burglars, or purse snatchers to do wide spread harm. I am training people to do what all of you felt free to do. If you want to be the only one doing it, you will need to buy your own island in Belize and set up a shop there, safe from competition.
Thanks for your questions Rick
-------------------- Richard Dissinger www.SignTrainer.com "Sign Shop Training Videos for Beginners" Tampa, fl 813-814-7611 wwwAABestSigns.com Posts: 31 | From: Tampa Fl | Registered: Aug 2004
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After your 2130 posts, a few of which are "EXPOSING" me, I give detailed explainations, and FACTS, and you are at such a loss for words ..your only response is "OH BOY" !!
Shame Shame Shame Berry/Barry .... I think the only one being "EXPOSED" here is you Exposing Yourself ... get it?? A little play on words. (I have been lying in wait to use that. Thanks for the opening).
I am certain that YOU will be back with MORE clever "EXPOSING" remarks, and I will respond and others will realize just how ill-prepared you are at doing this type of battle. They will remember it long into the future, as they evaluate YOUR new gripes/complaints & witicisms.
Accept it .. your remarks were un-founded, wrong, and just trying to show yourself as being some type of GURU to be looked up to , by others. It was, no doubt, a LOT more fun criticizing me when I was not here to defend myself.... wasn't it??
I will say that you should not feel TOO bad about this failure. As you can see, I am a tough act to follow. That is ONE of the reasons my TRaining Video is so GOOD! I am good at expressing myself.
Thanks again for starting this thread ... is has really boosted my exposure. I see YOU are in the beginning of creating your OWN web site. I and others cannot wait to see your Perfect Website Approach, with Words that EVERYONE on the planet agrees with 100%. I can almost envision your choice of words being new inspiration for me, and others to use as a pattern for their own website. Oh .. that's right... you don't have it yet! These perfect words that please EVERYONE, must take considerable time to think about. Oh well, I will keep watching, and NOW .....so will OTHERS!!
-------------------- Richard Dissinger www.SignTrainer.com "Sign Shop Training Videos for Beginners" Tampa, fl 813-814-7611 wwwAABestSigns.com Posts: 31 | From: Tampa Fl | Registered: Aug 2004
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-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5278 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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You have to understand the mind set here, the place revolves around the premises that we strive to educate and share in order to preserve the craft of sign painting. Vinyl is a bit of a dirty word to many as it is enabling "anyone" to make signs. Unfortunately, the public is uneducated and often get taken by the price and end up a with totally inefficient product as a result. The problem with that is that it brands the industry as a whole. Lots here are struggling in todays economy, and often we lack the business sense that would make us successful or even just viable. I'm not one who has a problem with your "lessons". I came up that path (from a vinyl cutter and no idea) and have worked my way up the ladder somewhat. None of that came without a lot of homework and determination, and an incredible amount of support and information from this site. Granted I started with a fair amount of natural artistic ability. I suspect most who purchase your tapes have an initial interest or talent in that direction. It took a lot of perseverance to get where I am and I have an incredibly long way to go before I can ever catch up with some of my peers, and some simply I will never touch. I have no idea of the content of your tapes, what you do or don't teach. Your advertisements for your tapes, do in my opinion underplay the essence of this business, the anyone can do it mentality is definitely harmful to what we believe and strive for. The insinuation that anyone can do something I have spent 15 years honing is insulting. I can only imagine how it rings to those who have not only spent a lifetime perfecting their skills, but are carrying on family traditions. Thus the ridicule.... That being said, I think you are a business man who has stirred up a few artistic temperaments. I do not consider the tapes as a threat to me or others here, in order to survive in this business you need a desire to be here. This Website is an incredible tool for those who are serious and passionate about what they do. I suspect most who try the "get rich quick" scheme will soon move on when the bubble bursts. Nothing said here is directed to you as a person, you come across as being pretty level headed about this. Just my take on the situation from one who "fell" into the business.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5499 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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Okay....I may have to change some of my opinion....You will not impress anyone by getting into a fight with the residents here. Although I realize it was you who was first attacked, you could stand to learn a lot by playing nice. If you are just here to throw a few stones back, then carry on, I shall bow out and watch the circus.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5499 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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CURTIS .. That's It?? That is your whole theory wrapped up in a few words taken from someone else? Here is another one-line-er ... Those who CAN teach ..DO teach..those who cannot teach, complain about those who have that skill. A few more words to remember, so you might want to write it down for now.
KELLEY .. Your words are fair, and my response will be also. No magic tricks in my ads, or my video. All facts, and somewhat BORING facts, even though they are useful. I have not figured out how to make this type of instruction FUNNY! I have taken MY many years and condensed them ( hard for me to do since I am wordy by nature).I really do not promise anything other than information. But I do deliver a LOT of information. the first words on my training video are " While there is much to learn... and the learning never really stops, I will introduce you to the vinyl sign cutting business, cutters, designing, blah blah blah" This goes on for a while but I never say that "Baboons can do it ... and so can YOU" , or anything that is under-handed. There is a tremendous amount of knowledge in the training video.
I do not de-value THIS forum or the information that can be obtained by readers of it. I think it is GREAT! I developed a learning tool that most of you wish you had when YOU started in this business. It would have shaved off the first year or two of mistakes. I know that statement holds true for ME!!
Thank You kelley for your questions/statements.
-------------------- Richard Dissinger www.SignTrainer.com "Sign Shop Training Videos for Beginners" Tampa, fl 813-814-7611 wwwAABestSigns.com Posts: 31 | From: Tampa Fl | Registered: Aug 2004
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There are many sign folks on this board who are not so abrasive and are more open minded.
I have not been to your website.
Its human nature to forget we craftsmen were once young and inexperienced. We had to learn the craft somewhere, from someone. There are respected sign crafters teaching Corel and Adobe, others writing books on design and layout. They get paid for their efforts.
I really don't see any difference. You seem to have developed a system, a way to teach the inexperenced and get them started in business.
As far as a person staying in business, that isn't your job, or responsibility. Over 70% of new business will fail in a couple of years, no matter what they do. People don't plan to fail, they fail to plan.
I'm sure the vinyl suppliers are happy with all the new ones trying to start up a sign business. Lots of sales in equipment and products, which is good for business.
Years ago, Speedball put out a step by step book on how to draw and paint. I wonder if they would get this kind of ill-treatment today? Every sign guy in those days seem to have this book.
Dan Antonelli has a book out that has helped many unartistic sign makers beef up their layouts. He doen't get bashed here.
It appears to me that the only thing you are getting bashed about is the claim how much money a sign shop can make. That is just an advertising hook. People are losing jobs left and right and the "You can make 6 figures" is tempting to them.
Really, guys, (poster's above) don't you think the buyer of this product is smart enough to discern for himself what is of educational help to cut the learning curve in an ever changing industry. Its really none of anyone's business.
My thoughts, my opinions.
Edited to say: In the over 5000 sign shops we have contacted in the Mid-west USA this last year for our new whosale products, over 300 of them are now out of business. That is just in a 10 state area around Illinois. I believe it was stated that 250 copies of this training video was sold.
Maybe this video would have been a good thing for some shops to have had. It certainly could prove useful to help a businees owner teach new hires.
[ February 15, 2006, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: Dave Draper ]
Kelley .. Again, I find YOUR words to be fair. But just as YOU do not want your 15 yrs to be under-minded, I do not feel I should allow MINE to be mis-stated and denigrated by those who do so without any first hand knowledge ...from a safe distance. As for stone throwing, I only do so in defense ....like the ones that follow....
FELIX .. I looked at YOUR website. It looks nice. It talks about your design skills very well, however, I also noticed that YOU did not design it. A company named FENN DESIGN did. With all YOUR skills ...why not?? I read FENN DESIGNS motto from their link on YOUR webpage. They say " Nobody is interested in being sold, or advertised. What you have to do is get people interested in TALKING about the product."
I am not certain that I believe that completely, but YOU certainly must since it is connected with YOUR website. The one that YOUR legendary design skills did NOT design! I will say that if YOU believe these words then you should be REAL DARNED HAPPY, with THIS whole discussion, since it is EXACTLY what FENN DESIGN (the ones who DESIGNED your site for you) says is their beliefs.
I guess I ( and others who wish to visit YOUR website and see for themselves ) will have to spend a lifetime wondering about this, with little hope for a true resolve.
I noticed a picture of a young boy doing boat lettering?? Is this the installation crew? Perhaps this is FENN DESIGN!! Your work shows talent in graphics, and I applaude you in it, but suggest you be content with that and stay away from the day-to-day needs of expression. After all, how much imagination went into the name Puerto Rico Signs? Not bad, I guess, but LMAO ??? You are out of your league ...was your 2nd choice "Sign Shop" ??
-------------------- Richard Dissinger www.SignTrainer.com "Sign Shop Training Videos for Beginners" Tampa, fl 813-814-7611 wwwAABestSigns.com Posts: 31 | From: Tampa Fl | Registered: Aug 2004
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I think Barry was saying 'oh boy' as in . . . 'oh boy look where this thread is going . . .
As for your sign trainer thing . . . the whole first page is SLAM FULL of every possible mistake you can make with regard to layout and design.
This is why so many people who DO care about design say: Do NOT try this at home . . .
But kay-sera-sera . . . I'm aware that you are entirely free in this country to do basically anything you like to earn money.
Some people get legitimately married and work hard to create a harmonious thing . . . and some people give it away for free . . . and some people only do it in exchange for money . . . . . . What I'm sayin' hun, is, that it seems like you're pimpin' a poor imitation of the real thing, and the real thing is nothing like your cheap version.
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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I'm just sayin'... Mr. Dissinger, you'll never convince people who put their heart and soul into layout and design, and who care more about quality than quantity, that you have a great thing goin' . . .is all . . .
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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Sheila .. I notice you do not even HAVE a website, but MINE is all wrong. Is this your opinion as a signmaker .. or a QUILTER?? You also do the real thinking for BERRY/BARRY as well, and interpret his utterances?? You must have a very full day. BERRY/BARRY speaks, and later YOU describe just what he meant !! Seems like you are saying BERRY/BARRY is too inarticulate to say what he means and without YOU he would be better off being silent.
Please explain to others EXACTLY how you arrived at the conclusion that I am "pimpin a poor imitation of the REAL thing"? If YOU have THE REAL THING hidden away somewhere or sewn into a quilt, kinda like the DiVinci Code, let the rest of us know how to seek it out and discover it. I did not know there even was ONE and only ONE REAL THING. What does it look like? Does it look like YOUR own website??? OOPS ... I forgot ... YOU do not have one (at least not listed here).
I see why you have 4700 posts ...you will comment on ANYTHING ....Facts & knowledge being unimportant.
-------------------- Richard Dissinger www.SignTrainer.com "Sign Shop Training Videos for Beginners" Tampa, fl 813-814-7611 wwwAABestSigns.com Posts: 31 | From: Tampa Fl | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
First of all whether I have a web-site or not does not make your lack of layout any more improved.
I think it's quite obvious that I think for myself, and have stated exactly what my personal opinion of your trainer is. I'm sorry if you don't like the opinion. It would be nice to be able to put up some pics of more properly designed work, and sometime I sure will. Meanwhile, there's enough beautiful and properly designed quality sign photos available through countlessly talented people here, though, I'm not sure you could recognize it. Please read my last reply, which to reiterate, is why you will never convince anyone such 'quicky' lessons will make a person understand the kind of work most of those here strive to produce.
The most you can hope is that you have taught people to be 'glorified decal appliers'.
I do not think for Barry, I merely thought to interpret his meaning which you became so defensive about.
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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I'm trying to open the door for some reasonable discussion as to why the members of this forum took offense to your web site and it's claims. Are we perfect ....no, are you perfect....no. I think there are some valuable lessons here to be learned in terms of both accepting newcomers into the business, tolerance, false impressions etc. This post has the potential to do one of two things....educate us or divide us.
What happened in terms of attacking your web site was in my opinion partially unfounded. What you offer could be extremely valuable to both the people purchasing it and perhaps to the sign community in general.
Here is a word of advice to you..... Contact the Shortreeds about becoming a merchant here. I suspect it would be a great place to find clientele who are interested, at the same time it will put a world of consultants at your finger tips and help ensure the viability of a forum that has proven itself invaluable in terms of its contribution of information. I suspect you would be able to recover your $500 merchant fee easily in a year, simply from the beginners here. Will your product stand up to the scrutiny of your peers? I suppose time will tell, but you will only do well if you are open to constructive criticism and not prone to biting back.
Perhaps you are not interested in this venue, you are doing fine on your own, that's good too. I suspect being a merchant here is not always an easy process. I do believe, however, there is a lot of loyalty from most towards those who actively support and contribute to this forum. I suspect your reception here could change considerably, due to the current perception of some that you are someone who is working against them. Is this fair? Yes and no....
To those who want to smack me up side the head for even suggesting this..... get over it...
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5499 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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