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I've just had an interesting encounter with SignWarehouse that I feel compelled to share with all my fellow Letterheads. Please after reading this give me your honest opinion. I'm not always right even though my wife says I think I am, but when I get treated unfairly I feel a responsibility to pass it along to those who might want to avoid getting similar treatment.
Here goes. . . On Nov. 29th I placed an order online with SignWarehouse for several items some of which were 10 plotter blades. the description on their website stated that these blades were for "ALL" SC model Mutoh plotters. (Mine is a Mutoh model SC 850D) so that is what I ordered. I received my blades but did not need to change the one in the plotter at that time, which by the way would have been the first time that I would have put in a new blade because I've only had the plotter a short time. Anyway my point is I did not examinine the blades to make sure they were the correct ones at that time. I finally needed to change the blade about 5 or so weeks later and at that time discovered they were not compatible with my plotter. So I called SignWarehouse and explainded that they had sent the wrong blades. Their response was that they had sent the blades that I ordered. which they had but they were misrepresented on their website and were not compatible with my SC model plotter. They told me that they would not take the blades back because my 5 day return time had expired. I tried to explain that I understood but they had sent me blades that were suppose to be for my plotter that weren't & I just wanted them to exchange them for correct ones. They would not! after dealing with to supervisors they finally agreed to exchange them. But then later informed me that they did not have nor could they get blades that would work in an SC model Mutoh. So they would not take back the incorrect blades. Sorry this is so long but my point is they sold me something that they represented as being for my machine that was not and then would not make it right. The way I see it is that it was their mistake and I should not have to keep 10 blades that are of no use to me. We finally ended with me blowing up and telling them that I would just keep the blades and never do business with them again. Which I will not! If I had a customer that I sold something to that was not what I told them it was I wouldn't have to think twice about making it right. And it would certainly pay off in the long run by keeping my customer happy. I guess keeping their customers happy is not important to SignWarehouse. Please let me know what you guys think. And if you agree with me I would encourage you to drop SignWarehouse an email and tell them that you also think that they were out of line to force me to keep product that they misrepresented. And I would also encourage you to spend your money elswhere. There are a lot of other sign suppliers that care about our business the we could support.
My annalogy of this transaction would be like this. . . you go to an Auto parts store and they sell you an oil filter for a Chevy and you need one for a Ford. When you try to exchange it for the correct one they refuse.
thanks for listening. Dan
-------------------- Dan E. Kearfott Gibson City, IL
Success comes in CANS - Failure comes in Can'ts Posts: 53 | From: Gibson City, IL U.S.A. | Registered: Jan 2000
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Welcome to the Signwarehouse Nightmare. My experiences with them have been horrible as well. I won't ever buy a thing from them again either. And I make it a point to tell everyone exactly how I feel.
-------------------- Amy Brown Life Skills 101 Private Address Posts: 3502 | From: Lake Helen, FL, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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Dan, I'm struggling with them also... Recently bought a Roland GX-24 plotter which they told me would require basic software to make it Mac compatible. According to the Roland instructions it does not. They also failed to mail the software CD with the order. They did send it later but I had no luck even trying it as the software key they sent does not seem to work. They also sent me some serial cables that are for a PC which I do not need.
The Roland tech support has not been of help so far as the plotter will not run with my Adobe Illustrator CS. So far I have a very attractive paperweight!
I've wasted so much time screwing with this I wish to hell I had not even ordered the damn thing.
-------------------- Tom Rose 1938 Model Sign Dude T.Rose Signs Whitehall,PA Posts: 327 | From: Whitehall,PA,USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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Did any of you pay with a credit card? If so, file a dispute with them. I've had to do that with two different transactions and was satisfied with the outcomes.
I've had to deal with Sign Warehouse technical and it was a nightmare...that is when I could get a hold of them.
-------------------- Laura Butler Vision Graphics & Sign 4479 Welch Rd Attica, Mi 48412 Posts: 2855 | From: Attica, Mi, USA | Registered: Nov 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Dan E. Kearfott: And I would also encourage you to spend your money elswhere.
Been doing just that for a few years now Dan. There is nothing they have that I need so badly that I have to order it from them. Or put another way, they are on my list of "If XXX was the last sign supply on earth, I'd now be running a fruit market".
Actually, if you do a search, you'll find a detailed rant Amy & I had going on here a few years ago about them. Evidently they haven't changed their M.O.
Do I think they were wrong, absolutely! I can see having an "allowed" return time. But a mere 5 days? What if the blades you bought had been shipped without being sharpened? (It's happened) Add in the fact that they misrepresented the blades or committed false and/or misleading advertising. I believe they should own up to their errors, plain & simple. Do I see it happening? Won't hold my breath.
My advice to you: Buy blades from a reputable supplier. Set the junk (to you as it's useless to you) on a spot by the phone. If you are ever tempted to call signwarehouse again to order anything, look at those blades. Trust me, following this method will save you an untold amount of frustration, lost time, etc.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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If this is "GBC Sign Warehouse", I bought my Ioline plotter from them. They sent one that had been taken out of the box, apparently either a return or demo. The plotter was not sealed in plastic so, when it arrived, fine sand had made it's way into the box from the dirt roads the UPS truck flew down before making it's way to my stop. The machine was completely covered in fine sand. i figured if it had made it's way into the box, and covered the plotter, then it was most likely inside the machine as well.
After hem-hawing around they agreed to send another one. That time they actually sent a new one sealed in it's original packageing. They should have done that in the first place.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7403 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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I'm sorry you have had problems Dan. SignWarehouse has been in business for many years. They are not Merchants here, but we have met the owners in person. They are a fine family run business.
Sometimes people screw up. In my 20 years of running a shop, we bumped heads with our suppliers many times. In most cases, the solution lay in who you talk to.
The last thing I want to ever see is this BB being used a weapon to attempt to embaress and/or intimidate others we may have a beef with. Imagine if our customers asked all their friends and family to e-mail us everytime we have a disagreement. What if those people, including suppliers were free to use this Forum to embaress customers that owed them money, etc.? It's road I have no desire to go down.
Before we burn these people at the stake, I would like the opportunity to make sure the right people are aware of your issues.
-------------------- Steve Shortreed 144 Hill St., E. Fergus, Ontario Canada N1M 1G9 519-787-2673
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I agree with Dan about the fact that it makes you mad when people treat you badly. The fact that you got no one to listen would be what would make me boil! Maybe what you need to do is talk to the "higher ups". Some employees don't always have the companies best interest in mind. We recently had a problem with a piece of equipment, called the company we bought it from and got a run-around about how they couldn't send a repairman this far, would have to charge us extra, yadayada. I argued with them that that was not what they told us when we purchased the machine. I told him that is why I purchased it from them. We had done business with them for years and they had always treated us right and we DID have a one year warranty on this machine that was 4 months old! He hemmed and hawed and said he would TRY to get someone here in the next couple days. I waited a day and picked up the phone and called the boss! There was someone here that day! Along with an apology and a phone call to check on the repairman. This company has always stood by us and I think in the future I will know who to deal with there! I don't know if you tried that already, but I would call back, calmly ask for the owner and tell them what went down. You might get some action that way. You know us "one-man shops" have to stick together...."Trust me!"
-------------------- Jane Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, Il. 61764 815-844-7024 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 4102 | From: Pontiac, IL USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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bought my first...and only....plotter from them and the software easy transaction rep called back evything is great.
go the plotter home and the hell started. tech support would not call back and come to find out tech support did not know anything about products.
went on this website, back bout 99 and talked about how bad they sucked. meail came from pres of company, a si was told, and things started rolling.
this company wants to sell and thats all. same as eveything else in the owrld. "thank for buying our product, GODD LUCK!!!"
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
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Steve I kind of thought the same as you that perhaps Dan should not of used this Bull Board for airing his problem with SignWarhouse. But then I put myself in his boots he bought 10 replacement blades not 1 and like him I probably would not of got around to double-checking that the entire order was correct till it was time that I actually NEEDED a blade. So there he is weeks later with the wrong parts not sure what to do. I truly think SignWarehouse should refund him or at least replace with same value merchandise. Maybe the owners do not know about this and maybe they do I just know they would be out nothing except shipping to fix this problem it is not like Dan wanted anything for free or like he used them and he did not think they lasted long enough. They are still unused completely resalable who has the best chance of reselling these blades best? Steve this case probably will not make me never buy from SignWarehouse but it will teach me and others to take the time required to confirm beyond any doubt that what I buy is what I intended to buy.
Last SignWarehouse puts out on the web an image of big business with a slick website and they look proffesional in this case maybe they should step up to the plate and be professional.
-------------------- Steve Eisenreich Dezine Signs PO BOX 6052 Stn Forces Cold Lake, Alberta T9M 2C5 Posts: 774 | From: Cold Lake | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote: Maybe the owners do not know about this and maybe they do I just know they would be out nothing except shipping
A good point,, Maybe teh salesman is covering his butt knowing the Boss is a hands off person.. If the boss knew a problem existed it might get fixed.. Probablt some kind of commision sales ..
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5273 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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Thanks to everyone for their comments. I would like to share with you the power of the press, or a very amazing coincidance. I received this email and a message on my recorder this morning after getting no response for about 2 weeks. . .
Dan: I left you a message this morning regarding the return of your blades.
I will be happy to take these back due to the invalid description on our website.
Please call me or email me when you are ready and I will send you an RS tag and an RMA # to return these. I'll also put a credit on your account for a future order.
Please advise, Taffy
Taffy E. Delgado Sales Operations Manager SignWarehouse.com 1-800-699-5512 x 2229 taffy.delgado@signwarehouse.com
Also in response to Steve's comment, I understand your concern about using this site as a weapon and also a way to expose dead beats that do not pay. Your concern is well noted because this website was designed as a means for our fellow craftsman to share ideas and information to help advance our craft. However it can be a very effective tool for helping each other to avoid companies and people that could rip them off or take advantage of them. Wouldn't you feel bad if you were to prevent this type of information to be shared and then someone was taken advantage of that could have avoided it had they been informed? Maybe a separate site for that information would be more appropriate. In any case I feel that exposing people that can hurt you is would be helpful. But of course for everything good that is created there is also an evil way of using it. I would not like to see people being hurt by someone that would use such a tool for revenge or just because they don't like them. Which could very likely happen.
I would like to share an example with you of a similar type of exploitation. . . There is a Pizza place in a neightboring town that used to post bounced checks on their wall for all of their customers to see. The thought of knowing that if you gave them a bad check that it would be hung on the wall was good incentive not to pas a bad check. It worked! However for whatever reason the practice was stopped. I don't know the particulars but rumour has it that there was something illegal about it. Figures, our government seems to put a lot of effort into helping and protecting the dregs of our society.
Thanks for your responses and I'm not certain that I received this info the day after posting it here but it sure seems that maybe this bullboard has some clout!
BTW I had been passed up the ladder to those in charge. I did not know it was a family owned business or I would have sought out the owners.
Dan
-------------------- Dan E. Kearfott Gibson City, IL
Success comes in CANS - Failure comes in Can'ts Posts: 53 | From: Gibson City, IL U.S.A. | Registered: Jan 2000
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I'm pleased to see your issue resolved Dan.
Yes. Letterville does indeed have clout. As a former small Mom and Pop sign shop owner, I often felt like we got second class treatment compared to bigger shops with bigger orders. There really wasn't much you could do about it.
Small sign shops have never been keen about joining "sign associations." Those that did take the plunge often discovered the associations were run by big sign suppliers, giant outdoor advertising firms and electrical sign companys. Small commercial shops didn't seem to fit in. To many, it always seemed their was a them and us mentality.
In 1995, we launched The Letterhead Website. There was 22 of us. Out of that number, I think there was 3 who had actually attended a Letterhead Meet. Our goal was to promote The Letterhead Movement, attempt to duplicate the Letterhead philosophy of sharing and encourage more to attend live meets. That's still the name of the game.
Ten years have passed. The Letterhead Website is now called Letterville. Those original 22 sign shops in our database has grown to almost 9,500. Thousands visit this BB daily to learn the latest. Even the smallest shops now have a place where they can be heard 24/7/365 days a year.
Letterville does have a powerful voice. We can use it to build bridges and promote more understanding, or we can use it to bully and attempt to embaress anyone we don't agree with. I'm determined to ensure we continue to follow the first path.
Over the past 10 years, we have been involved in several of these complaints. In almost all cases there are 3 stories. The customers. The Suppliers. And finally, the truth. There have been cases where the Customer has been cut off, or was obviously at fault and trying to use this Forum as revenge. It's amazing how fast the story changes when I e-mail the unhappy customer that the Supplier is entitled to tell their side of the "facts." Those that choose to give should always be ready to receive.
quote:Wouldn't you feel bad if you were to prevent this type of information to be shared and then someone was taken advantage of that could have avoided it had they been informed?
This is a great question. It's something that is always on my mind.
Has anyone ever read about a bad product or Supplier in any industry publications? Are they wrong to risk their survival by biting the hand that feeds them or is it just smart business?
We learned early that it is virtually impossible to serve two Masters. It's an expensive lesson.
Over the years, I have actually gave a few advertisers the boot rather than do things I consider wrong. From time to time, we have been instructed to remove certain posts or lose that advertising account. It's cost us a pile of badly needed income, but I sleep better at night. Thank God we have Residents that agree with our decision to not "play the game." Their investment insures we will always have a playground run by sign makers for sign makers.
Letterville is a great place to learn, make lifelong friends and have a good time doing it. It's also the perfect place to bring quality vendors and their current, as well as potential customers together. The more we can help put a face on corporations, the more we can prevent these needless disagreements. It's a win win situation for all.
[ February 09, 2006, 11:06 PM: Message edited by: Steve Shortreed ]
-------------------- Steve Shortreed 144 Hill St., E. Fergus, Ontario Canada N1M 1G9 519-787-2673
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I know I am not the only one but I'll let my feelings be known about SignWarehouse. I started dealing with them in 2000 and have had nothing the the best service from them... in equipment sales, supplies, and tech support. I buy almost exclusively from them and if something is back ordered I'd rather wait then deal with someone else. I even consider my sales rep a friend. We all get sour grapes now and then and mistakes are made but I won't let that change my relationship with a good supplies.
Just my 2 cents.
-------------------- Linda Schmidt Vital D'Signs Greers Ferry, AR signlady@ozarkisp.net Posts: 160 | From: Greers Ferry, AR | Registered: Sep 2001
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It is no secret that I am a big fan of Advantage Sign Supply. But, in speaking with other Letterheads, I find that the service varies depending on which branch you deal with.
My studio is 45 min from their corporate headquarters, and my salesman is also a friend. He calls me up just to chat, sometimes not even about business. He has since been promoted, but, still keeps in touch.
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3484 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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This is a good point! I think if you develop a relationship with a PERSON at any of these big companies, even if you have never met, it makes a big difference. When I call some companies I ask for a particular person by name. That helps a lot with making sure someone cares about my order. Sometimes, though, with some companies, that is not an option and you just feel like "an order", not a person. I tend to use those companies only when I have to...as I would rather do business with a person than a company. I HATE those "push one to talk to..." messages!!! Personal service is always the best! And the other side of that is, that is how I like dealing with OUR customers! Let 'em know you CARE!
[ February 10, 2006, 11:25 AM: Message edited by: Jane Diaz ]
-------------------- Jane Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, Il. 61764 815-844-7024 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 4102 | From: Pontiac, IL USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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Dan, hi, i can relate & personally BTDT on your experience with Signwarehouse. As, a resident here i will not go into detail on how SW "got me for 2 grand". not a few blades,2 hard earned grand. However, i donated the "loss" to signtec & offset my taxes to a favorable, not profitable, outcome/solution in the end. Steve S. has a good point on the mission of his BB-however, post's are also feedback on steering fellow signmakers away from or to suppliers-paid member or not. If i had run across this post say....2 years ago,i would have picked up vibes on who NOT to do business with, without "bashing" or complaining too much. hmmmmm
-------------------- mark zilliox mark z signs 8425 pushaw station rd. owings md. 20736 301-855-5407 thezs@earthlink.net http://www.markzsigns.com Posts: 348 | From: maryland | Registered: May 2003
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Trust me, following this method will save you an untold amount of frustration, lost time, etc.
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