posted
Just so all you people with nothing better to do will stop scolding me...
I couldn't care less whether Jeff Lang is a good family man, hockey player, tiddly wink champion, genuinely all-around backslapping goody two shoed guy, whatever... This was never an issue of Jeff's character. Stop making it out to be such.
In August of 2000, I lent Doc Welty of AMAL twelve pages of photos taken in Chicago (mostly Beverly Sign Co. stuff) in the late 1940's because he asked to have them for printing in the Magazine.
I also lent him a mint condition copy of H.C. Martin's ShoCard tricks (the green one)to look over and return with the photos when he was done.
It took many phone calls and over a year and a half of time to get the stuff returned and when I did finally get it back, the Martin book was missing and as was four pages of photos.
These photos and book were a gift from my mentor, Jimmy Wilke. They have great sentimental value attached to them. I have asked Doc, via e-mails and phone calls, for the return of the missing items at least a dozen times. I also asked him face to face in Atlantic City last year.
I am still waiting for the stuff. Am I so wrong to expect AMAL to return my missing items? What makes me so wrong in this situation?
Obviously, asking for the return of my property isn't working. Personal appeals have fared poorly as well. I have talked to Jeff about this as well and gotten just as far as I got with Doc. I sent Jeff a private message regarding this matter two days ago that remains unread. Surprise, surprise, surprise...
So, what recourse do I have? I am tited of asking for my stuff back. I am frustrated at their lack of concern. The whole attitude about this matter makes me very angry. I admit it has manifested into an issue with the magazine's lateness, as well.
JUST GIVE ME BACK MY DAMN STUFF!!!!
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6469 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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Anyone who truly believes that Letterheads does not suffer from the "them and us" syndrome that permeates every segment of society is just plain fooling themselves.
There has always been a division in our ranks since Letterhead meets began. There will never be a time when everyone walks on the same plane of talent, skill, economic success, etc.
Yes, here on the broad platform of Letterhead spirit, the high, the low, the rich, the poor meet together with one common purpose. The continuation of our craft. This is the key element that binds us together. This doesn't make us equals.
I don't like everyone here nor do I expect everyone to like me as well. To do so is just plain folly and unrealistic.
There are carvers that look down their noses at other carvers because they use a different technique or, heaven forbid, use a CNC router! Gasp! There are the mahl stick vs. hand-over vs. the three finger mongolian freestyle crowd, the hand painters vs. the vinyl guys vs. the digital print crowd, the wood vs. the HDU people... The list is endless.
The perception of "I am better than them" is always going to exist no matter what.
Get over it.
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6469 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
No, Doug, I don't think slack is appropriate any more. I have been waitng FIVE years for my stuff to be returned.
No calls. No answers. Enough is enough.
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6469 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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"...Anyone who truly believes that Letterheads does not suffer from the "them and us" syndrome that permeates every segment of society is just plain fooling themselves..."
Please say it ain't so.
Well . . . . it IS just'a tad obvious.
Some of the people who seem to be able to wait and wait and wait for a friend to deliver a pre-paid subscription, will turn around and spit nails if a supplier is either out of, or a day late shipping something.
This ideosyncrasy is kind'a entertainingly ridiculous and pretty pathetic all at the same time.
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Donna in BC: I'm sure that most don't mind 'waiting' for something great. However communication does go a long way. It's how we also do biz.
EXACTLY!! "communication does go a long way..." When it happens... & when it doesn't, & in a conspicous way... well, some say "no news is good news", but in some cases "no news" is just another twist of the knife.
Life is full of obligations & responsibilities, just like the introduction of currency contributed to our civilizations evolution into the highly productive circus we have today, the currency of a man keeping his word is of the highest importance.
Before any torrents of pompous defensiveness need occur, I am speaking in general terms now.. not specific to waiting for my mag.
quote:Originally posted by Bruce Bowers: Dude, you got a large hairy pair to say something like that to a customer... LOL!
No wonder we get along so well!
I got a kick out of Bruce's reply to a blunt comment I had made, because I met Bruce, & he is the epitome of a no BullS#!+ kind of guy.
I think the ability to tolerate BS is directly proportionate to the amount of BS one puts out.
Clear, honest, & complete (rather then deceivingly incomplete) communication is reasonable to expect when a "contract" of any kind is broken. A reasonable person will be content, to a point, with accepting various delinquencies if they are owned up to in good faith. But many of us are less forgiving without communication.
posted
I for one, don't mind waiting for AMAL. Maybe instead of a two year subscription, it should have been a subscription for the next 8 issues, come when they may. That would have cleared up a lot of problems. That's how I look at my subscription.
Jeff, whenever they get here, they are always worth the wait. Thanks for doing a great (maybe a little slow) job.
-------------------- Lou Pascuzzi www.economysigns.com Fine Hand Lettering since 1973 Danbury, Ct 203-748-4580 "IOAFS" Posts: 341 | From: Danbury, Ct | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
Bruce, I have sent a MOUNTAIN of clipping, old pictures, CD's etc..to Doc way back when they started too....It'll get back to you. I know my stuff is in good hands as well. Isn't Pittsburgh on the way from New York to Minnesota? Stop in and ask Jeff for it personally! (and get your skates sharpened)
-------------------- Mike Meyer Sign Painter 189 1st Ave n P.O. Box 3 Mazeppa, Mn 55956
We are not selling, we are staying here in Mazeppa....we cannot re-create what we have here....not in another lifetime! SO Here we are!!!!!!!
posted
Don't talk about the Letterhead club!!??!!??!!??
What . . . is this like some kind of disfunctional family thing where we know full well there is some kind of twisted problem, but we choose only to pretend things are ideal? . . .
WOOPS! Until some foolishly brave family member, screaming for resolution crosses the line and then a fight breaks out because the reality is entirely too real for some, therefore reality must remain UN-talked about (being without resolution is SO much better than discussing how resolution can occur) . . . besides, we want everyone to think we're a perfect family . . . no sense in the neighbors hearin' all this . . .
Then we have those who justify any action, especially the wrong actions . . .
And still others, simply made nausious by rocking boats just leave . . .
while others, who have always had questions about the weirdness look innocently on, hoping all the truth spills out for their own clairity . . .
Got any family members who are excellent at completely ignoring an issue?? They eat/sleep and indulge in the good stuff . . . but they 'just live there...they ain't 'kin'. . . lol
The defenders are ever-present defending which ever team their on . . .
Then there's the ones who easily know exactly and how simply fixed the issue is and just watch these antics with amazement . . .
posted
Maybe Jeff can round up a few Steelers fans to help get the next AMAL out. They'll need something to keep them busy with for the next 13 days. Too bad the cover will be black and school-bus yeller, featuring a sign made up of a huge D and a picket fence. Love Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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quote: There has always been a division in our ranks since Letterhead meets began. There will never be a time when everyone walks on the same plane of talent, skill, economic success, etc.
Yes, here on the broad platform of Letterhead spirit, the high, the low, the rich, the poor meet together with one common purpose. The continuation of our craft. This is the key element that binds us together. This doesn't make us equals
Well spoken.
Like any other tract of life there will be personality clashes, hurt feelings, rights and wrongs. "Letterheads" has grown far to big to be otherwise. It is made up of a broad sector of often "artistic" temperaments. I think, however, it is an entity worth speaking up for. Frankly there is no resolution to human nature. Fanning the fire of conflict will not bring resolution. Yes, it may bring some entertainment, but will also cause some pain and further division.
My experience has been entirely positive. I have never met with anything but kindness and willingness to help. If someone doesn't have the time of day, so be it, there are a hundred more in the sidelines. I can only hope to be able to give back a portion of what I have been given. I find "Letterheads" every bit as wonderful and varied as the people in my own community. Because, that's what they are, people. Human.
The thing is, we can do our best to bridge the gap between any "them" and "us" or we can keep digging it deeper. Which makes more sense to you? If someone has wronged you, perhaps that says more about that one part than the whole.
BTW am I an "us" or "them"....because to "us" we are "us" and to "them" we are "them", and yet all I want to be is a "me".
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5499 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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posted
Bruce has a legitimate complaint about his property. The rest of this thread is just the usual "let's stir shyt 'cause we're bored" nonsense. All this needs to be complete is one of Gavin's assclown rants, several pages of Doug Allen quoting people and one of Steve's "why can't we all be nice" speeches. Enough, already.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Dont know how i get put into this,because i personally have no interest anymore in this magazine,but i dont think it has anything to do with assclowns this time.....but take out a couple posting long winded crap to have something to do,and it seems far more people that posted here,and i'm aware of couple more than that since the post popped up, that havent recieved what they paid for in the time frame they were told. I really don't care what business youre in,accepting funds for delivery of end product then failing to deliver, whether its hamburgers,signs,magazines,elevators or nails is completely unacceptable. Customer service in any business is key and leaving bruce out of the equation,doesnt sound like its happening here does it? The fact that more than a few of you are willing to just apathetically accept that as a business practice is the reason why so many here struggle to make a living,earn what theyre worth,judge character beyond hero worship and serves to further the " i work for myself so i'll get to it when i want and they'll beat a path to my door" metality. Its not an a$$clown thing,but it has become an a$$-kissing thing,because a couple of people here seem to feel its unacceptable for people to complain when someone has some sort of percieved status within the heirarchy of the letterhead community,whether that status is earned,self granted or not. A valuable resource isnt worth squat if it never shows up...kinda like having an imaginary friend over for coffee and telling everyone what a swell guy your coffee pal 'joe' is when all they see when they get there is an empty chair. Now all that will come of this is a couple of you that think the sun rises and sets in he collective rear ends of those who publish AMAL(yet whose vital importance to the sign industry does not lead them to participate here) will email behind the scenes,pat each other on the rear,complain about what people said,tell them they are wrong and nothing will change. Of course there was alot of redundant crap on this post,but there are other post here daily,some by people everyone respects that are worse.
-------------------- Gavin Chachere Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.
"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two" Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
At it's root, I don't think this thread is fanning the fire of conflict... I think it is fanning the fire of best intentions.
Some things fall off the grid of some "to do" list somewhere & then much more inertia seems to be required for them "to do" it.
The energy of this post was meant to provide that inertia... but efforts to derail that inertia creates a swirling of opposing energies spiriling out of control, while advancing NO cause.
Now that Cam says Bruce has a legitimate complaint about his property... it's "enough already"?? Bruce ALREADY had a legitimate complaint before Cam instigated the whole derailment.
Cam, I think it was "enough already" before you piped in at all. how do you like them quotes?
posted
Here is a question from someone who has been in the biz for 15 years, attends every USSC sign show, subscribes to all the trade publications and has even been to a LH meet (thanks Jill!).
What the heck is AMAL?
My google search turned up a Danish porn site, F***ing Amal & the American Marmalute Assitance League.
If there really is another sign magazine out there, it's not widely known. I would like to check it out.
-------------------- Mike Duncan Lettercraft Signs Posts: 1328 | From: Centreville, VA | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
Writing on this site is a lot like chumming for tuna. All the usual suspects rise to the bait.
Thanks, Doug and Gavin, for reminding me why this board is such a colassal waste of bandwidth.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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-------------------- Gavin Chachere Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.
"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two" Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
You're quite welcome. My hat goes off to you however,for reminding the rest of us mere mortals just how impressed you are with yourself and how lucky we are to have your swell-headed presence in our lives for one mere minute of a passing day. Time and time again you drop in here and remind everyone what a large opinion you have of yourself and your abilities in comparison to to the rest of the sign business,and what a waste of time it is for you to be here,yet out of some bizarre need to feed your large ego you continue to come back and waste valuable segments of your life that cannot be replaced.....youre a god that walks the earth man why expose yourself to kryptonite like that??? The bottom line here is that you dont believe this thread is warranted because you say its not and youre willing to wait whatever time frame to get what you paid for,and good for you. Good thing you didnt need this in a hurry because you didnt plan well enuff ahead or they would be mouth breathing idiots....but thats something different lol. Don't involve me in a thread i dont involve myself in if you dont want me to reply. Have a nice day.
-------------------- Gavin Chachere Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.
"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two" Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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"As it turned out the first day (starting at noon) was dedicated to getting acquainted and retrieving our own Cam Bortz (the little Lebanese meat Inspector) from a meat packing venue known only to him. (and this was before the beer.)"
" . . .Thanks . . . for reminding me why this board is such a colassal waste of bandwidth . . ."
Oh yeh . . . I forgot . . . those family members who are extremists; when a simple problem arises, they like to feel that the whole family unit is entirely no good.
At who's expense is this too much fun? I don't think this is at the expense of anyone. We certainly, obviously can not control those individuals who continously veer WAY off the point. But there are different ways to approach them . . . but true enough, completely ignoring is by far the best way.
I also think it's good to expose their actions for exactly what they are: assinine.
I somehow think an exposition will jolt and steer the main point back on track . . . but, I'm obviously wrong . . . . I often forget, whenever people have personal vendettas, and emotion, in this case, testosterone is involved, they can not be trusted to remain logical.
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
... and estrogen induced responses are logical?
Sorry, Shiela, I just couldn't resist but you do know I still like ya doncha?
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6469 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
OK. Enuff' already. It's hard enought to watch you insult yourselves, but now Cam is insulting me and Letterville. Ouch!
Letterville supports everything Letterhead. That includes AMAL and yes, even Cam. The best way to ensure AMAL and Letterheads continues to succeed is to get involved. This includes subscribing to AMAL and contributing content for publication.
To order a subscription, go to A Magazine About Letterheads We'll also add a link to our Merchant's Page asap. Jeff already knows he has permission to use any photos or content from Letterville, but most of our stuff is at 72 dpi. Magazines prefer 300 dpi.
If you are sending in content by mail, the address is A Magazine About Letterheads PO Box 404 Sewickley, PA 15143-0404
Jeff's phone number is 412-732-9999. Call him up and see what you can do to help. If you are into website design, an AMAL Website would sure be handy.
Until A Magazine About Cam and/or a website called Camville comes along, we'll just continue to waste bandwidth.
[ January 23, 2006, 05:11 PM: Message edited by: Steve Shortreed ]
-------------------- Steve Shortreed 144 Hill St., E. Fergus, Ontario Canada N1M 1G9 519-787-2673
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