posted
i got a call last week from a local body shop. they had replaced the rear driver side of a ford truck. the truck also had your run of the mill custom striping, the twirls with straightlines, so on and so on. i did the straight lines and started on the twirls and stuff and put on and wiped off bout 4 times. after 1 hour i placed my brushes back in the large ziplock bag and placed in bottom of signkit, keep in mind these brushes used to lay in top drawer, laid out all nice and neat. i went to the office and told them i am so out of the loop i cannot do it and im wasting my time and everyone elses, i left. i am not ashamed of this, due to the fact that the pinstriping has taken a backseat to the commercial sign sales. but deep down it sorta hurts your feelings, to know you once did it. i fought the move from brush and overhead to the computer age for a couple of years. i lost that battle and now i could not live without the computer, i suppose to know that i could once do this is good enough in my mind, still sorta sucks
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
posted
...Bruce, Rather than "wing it" and botch the job, you did the right thing by walking away. Unfortunately, some insufficiently skilled, amateur would have done it anyway, only to further lower the publics opinion of painted "craftsmanship".
...It's vitally important to recognize our limitations. Brush pinstriping is a very discliplined, specialized art that takes years to master. As they say, "DEVELOP SKILL, or be a SLAVE TO TECHNOLOGY."
posted
Kinda sad to hear a story like this, but why doesn't it have a happy ending?? I understand maybe it was tough to pull off this job, but why not use this this as the kick in the butt that you may need to get those brushes out and practice?? You made comments that these brushes were once laid out neatly at the top of your kit, now all rolled up in the ziplock bag. Seems to me, there's passion in your words and it's all rolled up at the bottom of your signkit. Bruce, I just started learning to stripe a little over a year ago and it's almost like therapy to me. I come home from work, put on some headphones, practice and zone out. I really can't believe how far I've come, doing this only every now and then. (I'm not bragging, just amazed that I can do it). You and I weren't born to do this, we've learned it! I'd be it won't take you long to get back to where you let off!
Long Live Long Lines....
[ January 15, 2006, 08:47 AM: Message edited by: Mark Neurohr ]
-------------------- Mark Neurohr "Ernest" Paintin' Place 141 Sunnyside Road Kittanning, PA 16201
posted
The only real sad thing here is if you just let your knowlege fade away. It takes a lot of guts to admit defeat and walk away, but there are many more passionate souls eager to learn what you no longer have the passion for.
There is nothing wrong with passing the torch, but it would be a shame to let the flame just die out.
[ January 15, 2006, 08:56 AM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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when you are busy installing monuments, baclit letters, residential entrances and whatnot i dont have time to relearn the brush.
pinstriping is not a very profitable market down here in montgomery. there is also not a lot of call for it. i also used to airbrush alot and those are put way in the back of cabinet. its sad but no use in relearning any of this. we learn over time what pays the bills an dwhat watse our time. and yes i agree it is therapy nice and slow and calming. and i miss that.
the company has taken many positive turns and i look at this as a final turn an dlesson not to pursue this anymore. i figured after the last pinrtiping was 2 years ago....thas a big old gap....lol
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6745 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Bruce, there shouldn't really be any shame or sorrow attached to your personal acknowledgement that on that day, you weren't up to the task. This trade has undergone a significant change over the last couple of decades, and like many, I too have had to learn new skills, simply to remain competitive. Along the way, some of the previous skills may have become rusty or neglected. What you now must decide, is if it's really worth your time and effort to re-acquaint yourself with this "lost skill". Is there sufficient work or demand that you can make enough money from doing so?
Your sense of loss might indicate that it really isn't about the money, but more about personal pride and satisfaction. That too, is worth something, but one has to measure and consider just how much this is worth to you personally. If the answer is a lot, then it's simply a matter of dedicating some practice time to shake off the rust, and re-polish that skill.
Best of luck to you, whichever way you decide to go.
-------------------- Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com
Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ? Posts: 2684 | From: London,Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 1999
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dear patrick whatley, thanks for the upheaving of my spirit as i sit here curled in the corner with a butcher knife and laquer thinner. i am going to write a note about you and then you will beblamed for the whole thing.
vinyl? pinstripes? that dont work dude...put the crackkpipe down and back up. oh thats right i forgot about vector art ......damn really need to buy that!
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
posted
I'd be bummed out too if I couldn't do something I used to do a few years back. Striping is something you have to stay on top of. If I don't stripe for a week, it's hell for the first ten minutes or so. Lettering seems to be a whole 'nuther story though. I don't hand letter much these days and sometimes go for months without picking up a quill or a flat. When I do, it's like there never was a break in the action, kinda like riding a bike. Striping is more akin to ice skating or roller skating. Lay off for awhile and there is that re-learning process.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
Could you not have located a striper to sub the curly bits out to, for help?
(I haven't been there for a year or more but there's a pinstriper dot com or some such forum where they may know of someone near you...)
Butcher's knife & lacquer thinner- OUCH!
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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I am glad I am too busy pinstriping to install monunents and backlit letters, for me a staight line and some scrolls would take 20 minutes and I would have a lot more fun.
-------------------- Ken McTague, Concept Signs 57 Bridge St. (route 107) Salem MA 01970 1-978-745-5800 conceptsign@yahoo.com http://www.pinheadlounge.com/CaptainKen
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"A wise man once said that, or was it a wise guy?" Posts: 2425 | From: Salem, MA | Registered: Apr 1999
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I used to pick a mean blue grass banjo.. Owned a fine Fender Leo.. Not the best,, but I could make it sound good.
One day after not picking for a while (2 years). . I picked it up. And ???????.. nutin.... couldn't remember a roll if i had to save my life.. Couldn't even flail a tune.. geeses... All I could do was tune it..
I'm with ya my friend. I lost it and never again found it. But only because I didn't have the motivation. I am sure if duly motivated you could stripe great again. And I am equally sure it wouldn't take muh to get it back..
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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ian there are 3 others in this town i know that could do it. when in their office they called 2 of them. one said he does not do it anymore and the other said he wasnt interested. striping is not big down here and no one cares anymore. do i miss it yes. do i have the motivation to learn it again, no!
i just thought it was going to be nice and easy to do. it was a slow day and it wwas going to be fun. if i would have stayed on it im suree i would have pulled this job off, but i just got tired of paint on wipe off....lol
a large part of our growth as we progress in business is saying no. no to stuff that isnt interesteing to us anymore. no to freebies. no to relatives. it is refreshing to say it.
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
quote:Originally posted by Randy Campbell: Couldn't have just made a pounce patern from the other side and reversed it?
My feelings exactly . .
My guess, and I hope I don't sound like a wisea**, is . . You don't enjoy working with a brush and your hand anymore . . or you'd practice more often . . .
And the reason "Nobody Does it much around there" is . . Nobody does it, so nobody knows it can be done . .
Put some out there, the "Tuners" and the guys with Custom Pickups will ask for it. . . . IF they know you can do it!
posted
Don't feel guilty. Some of us are just meant to move on in life. I did it all in the past and got out of it what I wanted. Now I want other things in life and am quite happy moving ahead to explore all the infinite possibilities out there. My goal in life is to learn alot about everything instead of everything about only one thing.
-------------------- Bob Stephens Skywatch Signs Zephyrhills, FL
posted
This is kind of a sad story. I don't know if quitting in the middle of the job was the way to go, but you're entitled to close this job how ever you wanted. I know sometimes it's frustrating to not get the results you want, and I don't know how attached you were to pinstriping to begin with. Nevertheless you must have some sadness here to begin this post, so maybe you should "never say never", keep those brushes in the top drawer, attend a letterhead event where you can play with your striping and see if the passion you once had will return. Like Mark mentioned it might be a good source of therapy to mix in with the stress of your other work.
As far as pinstriping not being big in your area, that is what I want to address. I ran into that 10 years ago or so. It seems that those who could not stripe tried to make striping outdated and unpopular -- by starting rumors with body shops and other automotive interest groups that pinstriping was out of fashion. Turns out it was just the fact that they couldn't do it, and the fact that lettering enamels had been altered and were not holding up under normal washing and waxing routines.
I put a lot of food on our table and raised 3 boys with this simple art. I had to be talked into doing when I first started. When I first heard these rumors, I said "who said that?", and who are they to decide what's in fashion." The response I got was that nobody wanted to put chicken scratching on $100,000+ machines only to have it come off and look like hell in a year. "Vinyl's the way to go," they said.
I decided I had a choice, I could either let others tell me the skill I worked so hard to achieve was no longer needed, or I could somehow get my work to hold up and regain some popularity with this work.
I discover urethane striping paints and started hammering out work that holds up. While others like yourself are quitting, I have been picking up new customers who still like this kind of work. I haven't lifted the phone once, it's been all word of mouth, and the fact that now I am one of the few.
I'm not as steady and fast as I was, but through diet and cleaner living, I am starting to get it back. I will probably take it to my grave and hope that this art, that in some form or other has been around for centuries, will continue to survive.
-------------------- Bill Diaz Diaz Sign Art Pontiac IL www.diazsignart.com Posts: 2109 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Dec 2001
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Wow, Bill, I am so glad you posted that! I was reading all this down & depressing stuff, thinking all kinds of "down" things. Nope! I'm gonna keep on going & I will learn to do it well.
Bruce, didn't you love it enough at one time to finally learn it?
I guess you have to decide which is more important, & what satisfies you the most.
-------------------- The Word in Signs Bobbie Rochow Jamestown, PA 16134
724-927-6471
thewordinsigns@alltel.net Posts: 3485 | From: Jamestown, PA 16134 | Registered: Oct 2002
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-------------------- Frank Magoo, Magoo's-Las Vegas; fmagoo@netzero.com "the only easy day was yesterday" Posts: 2365 | From: Las Vegas, Nv. | Registered: Jun 2003
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i have no desire the set montgomery on fire with striping. its not going to happen. people down here see things they want but will not pay the price. yes they want the naked chick on the polar bear on the hood of their chevy luv truck...but they aint paying what you want.
the only time striping jobs come in is when they are at a body shop dont somewhere else, and you have to match it, and let me tell you boys and girls matching other people s syuff sucks!
i didnt mena to depress by this post, it was more of reflection. i also use to project eveything with overhead but im not about the get that sucker out anymore....speaking of where is that damn thing.
and to randy, yes i could have made a pounce pattern but it wasnt so much i could not copy what was done i just could not get that flow going!
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
posted
Bruce it sounds like your fed up with the BS of the business.I will be 52 in May and I folded my business a week ago,sold my house and will be going into an apartment.I wanted to learn more about the trade so I enrolled in a air brush course at the local college.I'm going into the second parttonight (tuesday) and i'm already making money at it.I love to paint art pieces of old classic trucks and cars just like Foose with a little Mike Lavellee flames.Always into learning more.Good luck Randy
-------------------- Randall Campbell Randy's Graphics, 420 Fairfield N. Hamilton Ontario Canada Posts: 2857 | From: Hamilton Ontario Canada | Registered: Jan 2002
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These stories really hit home with me, I just started picking the brush back up, practicing only really, and I know the feeling of being very rusty. But I would love to learn it again, the same goes for the old Airbrush, just bought a new Iwata, I have the trusty Paasche as well, I really do want to practice these skills to be able to do something nice on my new Motorcycle. Bill thanks for your story, it really inspired me, I know that this will not take over my Sign Business, but it can certainly make it a little more interesting... nobody here does that anymore, the striping that is, there's one guy who I know who Airbrushes, and he's damm good at it also. Good for him, I like seeing his work actually, he's a nice guy as well.
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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First of all, let me say not so much to Bruce, but in general, I have been humbled in life so many times I would be embarassed to say. When you're young you tend to make statements based on your limited experiences. I think knowing you envision many years of living left, you view the world as your oyster -- so to speak. As you get older and all your dreams and aspiration aren't met, and when heartache crosses your path you are ever reminded of your own immortality. It is a humbling experience.
The one thing I do know now that I didn't know when I was a young whipper snapper is "how much I don't know!" That being said, I enjoy being around other letterheads, because we share similar experiences. It's nice to know you aren't the only one who feels the way you do about customers, collecting money and such.
I'm also fearful of becoming obsolete, and I am battling to stay current yet retain the kind of work I'm familiar with and have strived so hard to accomplish. That's why Bruce's post is important, because I realize the pressure sometimes to go with the flow and give in to technology. It seems you have to constantly reinvent yourself.
Nowadays reinventing yourself comes up more frequently. People aren't learning one life long skill to survive, they're having to learn several to keep abreast of rapidly changing technologies. Sometimes if there was a parallel universe of sorts, I view myself as a parallel to the blacksmith on the dawn of the horseless carriage. You get the feeling that your skills are no longer required.
I don't know what the situation is in Montgomery or other similar marketplaces, but it's almost like technologies are driving labor costs lower and lower to the point where you have to say, "is it worth it to acquire a labor oriented skill only to be obseleted just when you're starting to have some success after a lengthy internship?" And if it's not enjoyable keeping the skill alive, why do it?
I don't know the answer, but I have observed, that their are forces out there that cause people to have what others don't have. If you're able to hand letter and pinstripe, and you were the only one left, there will be a person of wealth who will seek you out because of your uniqueness. He will pay handsomely for your rare skills and brag to others about what he has paid for. Others of wealth will climb aboard the bandwagon and you will become famous. I call it the law of "keeping up with the Joneses."
This quest for seeking out rare talents happens in all forms of art. Instead of marketing my human talents against machine made technology, I have planned to seperate the two and make note of it with my customers, and I have planted a seed with them that in order to acquire these increasingly rare talents, they are going to have to pay the extra costs. It's a supply and demand thing. So far it has been working. So when somebody mentions they are giving it up, I am sad on the one hand, because I know it could be me, but on the other hand it has just made me a more rare commodity.
-------------------- Bill Diaz Diaz Sign Art Pontiac IL www.diazsignart.com Posts: 2109 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Dec 2001
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bill that was a great post and correct! randy glad your taking a course and making money before the second class ...and to comment on that several years back i signed up for airbrush at the local college ad before sessions started they cancelled because of low enrollment....lol
ive got about 3 good paashes and parts to fix over 20, in the closet, i think pat whatley does too. i have moved past that airbrushing too. i did the mini trucks and the hood murals and hte helments. been there did that aint going back! and still get calls on it.
the sign business has been great. not only is this my hobby but it is my career. it has given me financial freedom over a period of several years. i have been broke, i have given stuff away, i have underpriced and i moved on. i am at a place now that i would want to stay got he rest of my life. if it got no beter than right now i would be fine.
19 years in the business, lots of differnt hats and skills were learned.....and thanks to the technology today ill never catch up....lol
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
posted
I'd like to ad something here. I can relate to what Bruce says about there being no demand for striping. I live in a "dead zone" as far as striping goes. I don't know what the deal is, probably take a psychologist to figure it out, but people in this area just don't want striping. Oh, sure a few do...but a very few. They don't want "Jersey Style" lettering either. If it were just me, I'd say is was do to my poor marketing skills, but there has been one other striper in Memphis working for the same amount of time as I have. He is way better than me at marketing yet he's not exactly covered up. I've seen stripers come into town from other places thinking the pickings were good, only to leave a few years later. I travel around the mid-south region of the country quite a bit. You just don't see much striping on the streets at all. Tennesse, at least the westen half is pretty dead, Arkansas is pretty much the same, Mississippi is even deader. Go up north a little into Missouri or Kentucky and you'll start seeing it. If Bruce says there is no demand in Montgomery, I'll have no trouble understanding. Montgomerey is a lot smaller than Memphis too, so Im sure the pickings are really slim. We worked a few small car shows this year that had a lot of street rods and customs in them. Very, very little striping on any of the cars. Oh, we made a few bucks and had some fun, but if we had to travel any distance and pay a motel bill, it woudn't have been worth it. I've tried everything over the years to sell more striping. I would have had better luck selling snowmobiles.........( it almost never snows here )
Like Bill, I worry about becoming extinct. Yes, there are a few folks wanting hand done work, but not enough to make a decent living off of. I've changed hats so many times in my career, it's a wonder I have any hair left! We're getting ready to do some drastic changes this year in our marketing, trying some new venues. I hope I don't come across as being to negative or bitter, just trying to tell it like it is. Hell, I'm still having fun and I'm a long, long way from punching a clock for some body
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
My goal is to not have to sell insurance, sell real estate, wait tables, drive a cab, become a Wal Mart greeter or go back to hanging wallpaper and painting houses.
All those jobs are not beneath me, but you've got to have some goals and I've already done some of them.
I'm hoping whatever lull their is in pinstriping stays out of my area. It might already be there, it's just I'm not aware of it. I know how fads are. But they say don't throw out your old ties. Hell, I don't wear ties period, but the ones I have are in the attic somewhere.
Maybe this simple art will rebound, and so if you enjoy it, keep the brushes handy, and attend letterhead events where it is just plain fun to stripe and panel jam.
-------------------- Bill Diaz Diaz Sign Art Pontiac IL www.diazsignart.com Posts: 2109 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Dec 2001
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along wiht pinstriping was painting top fuel dragsters....hell these guys are lettering their own stuff. i was at one time (not braggin') the guy to do the letteirng at the tracks, and that also has faded in the past 5 years and i do miss that also but once again, so be it lets move on to other things
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
posted
The coast is where it is still going strong.... NJ is a hotbed for airbrushed lettering and striping, and Cali is big as well. Aside from that, I hear from Alan Johnson that Colorado has a market too. I do know it isn't everywhere... I moved up here from NJ because I saw all the trucks were naked (vinull letterin) and I wanted to make my mark, well I find everyone is too cheap to pony up the bucks and the one guy who does do it has taken over for his father, so he has the time and client base. I have focused on bikes and restoration jobs to keep my practice up. I charge a premium for my work and have been doing OK with it; however the lack of steady work has lead me to a day job pushing buttons and popping out boring highway signage. We all do what we have to do... I will keep striping for charity events and the rare bike show etc. I am still young and will carry it on. Anyone wanting to get rid of their old brushes and airbrushes can just mail them to me. I will put them to work. This is a good post and we all can relate in some way.
-------------------- Doug Fielder Fallout Grafix Port St. Lucie, FL
16 years with a brush in my hand... Posts: 273 | From: Port St. Lucie, FL | Registered: May 1999
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why is there no demand for pinstriping or "jersey style" lettering in your area? because you haven't created a demand for it, in my area me & Brian Mehelis do 90% of the truck lettering around here and as for lettering alot of it is vinyl but its well designed and alot is airbrushed "jersey style" and pinstriped... when they walk in to my shop they see it, airbrushed lettering and pinstriping everywhere. If they didn't come in looking for it, I sell it to them, when Brian sees a truck I did he knows I did it, when I see a truck he did I can tell its his work, it has character and style, when another client sees our work, they want the same quality, thus creating a demand....there is a demand for it in New Jersey because the artists there sell it! why is there no demand for pinstriping or airbrush in your area??? because nobody is creating the demand. A few years ago, was there a demand in your area for Realistic fire? Mike Lavallee created a demand in Washington State, that spread nation wide... Why does every storefront in Nashville Indiana, have a beautiful carved, dimensional sign? Because Gary Anderson created a demand for it...
Walk through Mystic Ct. and see what the stroefront sign look like there... Cam Bortz, has given that whole town its signature look...
Gold Leaf on Race cars in NH?...I think Bruce Deveau, created that demand...
am I making sense here?
[ January 17, 2006, 10:08 PM: Message edited by: captain ken ]
-------------------- Ken McTague, Concept Signs 57 Bridge St. (route 107) Salem MA 01970 1-978-745-5800 conceptsign@yahoo.com http://www.pinheadlounge.com/CaptainKen
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"A wise man once said that, or was it a wise guy?" Posts: 2425 | From: Salem, MA | Registered: Apr 1999
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Well, it's seems I can add to this some; I've practiced "hard times" drills all my life, this "fad" Doug mentions, has been around for a long time and isn't going anywhere for a long time still. What it does do is create condition known as "chicken or feathers", also to those in the know, life's little cycles, everything revolves and evolves...stopping forward motion does only that, when tired of eating feathers, one must go "find" the chicken...lately in here, subject of "cold calls" came up, hell if it works, do we really care how that chicken ended up in the pot? Also available is option of creating your own market? There's always a way, just takes looking at it from the right angle.
To me, to quit never was an option, drilled in from years of military service, when it MATTERED in realtime...hard to forget why and how it works, let it suffice to say, "old habits die hard". And this one needn't die, it's a good one. I've slung a brush for over 50 yrs. now and made ENTIRE livelyhood from the art, when it got slow, I got busy, get out and find the work. I've worked for as little as $20 a car and as high as $500, all in one day, they didn't know me when I found them and possibly wouldn't have either, if I hadn't gone out and searched them out. This particular incident was long ago and things have changed now, but all I did back then was tap into, at time untapped for whatever reasons, another facet of present market...what did I do? I went from new car manager to used car manager and offered him a deal he couldn't refuse and the rest is history...I WAS the first in Vegas to make a business of striping used cars, and that wouldn't have happened not for fuel crunch of '72, remember that? Killed the new car market and I was used to making and spending over $20,000 a month, when it dried up, the mortgages kept rolling along, it was do something time, I switched thinking and it has worked in some form or another since.... In other words, when backed into a corner, PUNT!!!
-------------------- Frank Magoo, Magoo's-Las Vegas; fmagoo@netzero.com "the only easy day was yesterday" Posts: 2365 | From: Las Vegas, Nv. | Registered: Jun 2003
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Bruce, I think everyone can identify with the frustration that comes from a combination of circumstances which include, but are not limited to - ~Working on site around other people moving around ~Working on site with people stopping to watch/ask questions ~On-site and forgetting that 'perfect' brush or item you basically can't function without ~The last situation combined with the first two. ~Sometimes it's just the music they're playin' on-site that messes with my head and rhythm.
Like MrMc, I was'nt able to quit either, altho' my motivations were constantly primed by my little girl . . . and all those bills . . . Having walked away from government aid, I simply HAD to plow thru my exasperations and 'fudge cycles' lol.
Fudge cycles. Sounds like icecream, but really it was those times when I was not of a mind to be paintin', and could'nt seem to find my 'groove', yet I HAD to get it done. I HAD to have the money and there I was, uncomfortable in my own skin paintin', especially on-site. (funny how I still have that same feelin' the first few minutes of a meet ) Those jobs were times I took a deep breath and said something to the affect of, "I have to run look at another job and I'll be back shortly . . ." My stinkin' pride would'nt let me just say I forgot somethin' or if they have the item I could borrow. (I still won't ask for an item I've forgotten which the customer might have on site) Most times, when I just needed to go get something I forgot, it's funny how, on the ride home, I'd think of something I could use that I had on hand to improvise . . . so I just went back and got it over with on ad-lib. lol
Sometimes I've wiped things off several times to the utter shock of the customer who was saying it looked great-better than they could do, etc, ect, but I had to explain to them that it has to look right to ME first.
Anyway, hope this helps.
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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Well Ken, I guess I may not have made myself clear. Please don't tell me nobody tried to create a demand for jersey style lettering or pinstriping in this area. I worked really hard at it back in the eighties. I tried to push the airbrushed lettering, leafing, pin striping and what not. Gave some guys some hellacious deals on the stuff just to get it out on the streets. Did it go over. Nope!!! Oh, I was killin' em on the race car circuit. I would have put the cars on our local sprint car circuit up against any in the country as far as looks went. 23 kt, airbrushed, aluminum leaf, convex, chrome...all the trick ****. But the commercial stuff, the truck lettering, they just didn't want fancy. Heck, clean and tasteful was more than most could stand The 18 wheeler guys will let you cut loose on the graphics and pinstriping but even they balk when it comes to the lettering. Please, if you don't try and tell me what the customers I have worked around for the past thirty years will buy I won't act suprised when I come up to Salem and find out they don't have grits on the breakfast menu
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
let me guess George, those customers that have been in YOUR area for 30 years want exactly what YOU have been doing? maybe selling grits in Salem would be tough but if the right person was marketing it... might be a small unfilled demand for it... I will take the biscuits with sausage gravy please. Seriously, I mean no offense George, I just wanted to point out that sometimes there is no demand for it because its not nobody is filling that demand, therefore other options are adopted and soon a demand is built for that.
-------------------- Ken McTague, Concept Signs 57 Bridge St. (route 107) Salem MA 01970 1-978-745-5800 conceptsign@yahoo.com http://www.pinheadlounge.com/CaptainKen
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"A wise man once said that, or was it a wise guy?" Posts: 2425 | From: Salem, MA | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
Ken, I'm cabable of doing the most mundane simple knockout on up to the most elaborate lettering. Over thirty years I've done all of it. I've done jersey style.....trust me, there is no demand for it.
All I've been trying to point out here is some areas of the country have different tastes. Jersey style lettering doesn't sell down here, not because nobody created a demand for it or tried but rather because they just don't want it.
Hell, if I kept hammering away at trying to sell that stuff I'd have gone under years ago. Rather, I've done just as Frank alluded to ....punt.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
I hate to say it, but I can relate to what George is saying. I went by a window job last week, that I had done last year. All modesty aside, I didn't remember it looking that good, I was regretting not having the camera, to show you guys how well that experimental paint formula is holding up, and the design. I have a few others like that, phone number clearly next to it, but no calls.
Maybe just having the work out there isn't enough. I know a window splash lady in CA that said the trick to her success was getting the fast food places. Maybe it's a bowling ball sort of deal, you've got to knock the right pin over first. Do I ever track down the corporate offices? Something always comes up.
But then agan, something that's really 'coming home' to me lately is that the market doesn't stay the same. 20 (?) years ago, I had a simple shop near a busy 2 lane road. A small sign out there said "signs", classy but simple. I had all kinds of work. Tried the same thing here, used up my savings keeping the doors open, no trafic. Vinyl changed that. I always had it in the back of my mind that I could add short run silkscreening to my shop, and suppliment the income. Talked to an old freind the other day who has a screen only shop. He said the printers were wiping the short order work out. Point is, I have these ideas in the back of my head, that are outdated. Hard to get used to.
Not saying there's no market, but finding it sure is a different game.
There was a call several years ago, that has turned into a good client. They called asking about truck lettering, and instead of automatically sending them down the road (because I NEVER land typical vinyl jobs) I told them that I do nicer signs. They wanted to know what that was about. Problem now is that there aren't even shoppers calling. None. Zip. Wierd. No shoppers, no calls at all, except old clients or other shops sending wall jobs because they don't paint.
I was just wondering something, this is a little related: As this country moves away from manufacturing jobs to a more service oriented workplace, could it be that some of the newcomers are out of another line of work that's deminishing, and they think "hey signwork, there's a service I could enter". Maybe nonsense, just a thought.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Ken, I am in an area like George, I tried to get it out there, I put fliers up in every truck dealership, talked to salesmen and even made up samples etc.... I got 3 customers in 3 years. One is a repeat customer and he is in Canada! All from one dealership. The other dealerships didn't do squat. I was up against breaking into a new market and against guys working the market for the last 30+ years. It didn't matter how much better I could do with layout etc... Outsiders aren't welcome. The work seems to attract the bikers here more, and other than that, I have tried everything to get the truckers into the market... I have even done full trucks for $300... I have done more gold on glass here than trucks! (Besides pickup trucks) I am thinking it is more to do with class, Shore area trucking companies, Mass, NJ, NY etc... know the value of looking good and different than their competition.... Up here there isn't much competition for truckers and they don't care to have a show winning truck. If the market ain't there, the market ain't there. I just changed my focus to stuff that still produced $$$ and required the Jersey style techniques... I have done show winning work here on bikes and antique cars and full blown Kustom graphics on a car to get it out there... I still do bikes and small trucks, signs and gold lettering... stuff the guys that are here haven't been doing for the last 30 years, making my own market. I am not giving up, I am changing my focus and am working to better myself.
-------------------- Doug Fielder Fallout Grafix Port St. Lucie, FL
16 years with a brush in my hand... Posts: 273 | From: Port St. Lucie, FL | Registered: May 1999
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I started Lettering with a brush when I was 18 & every job I ever had does not do any brush work. Always a computer & vinyl. I am 30 & on my own and practice with the brush even though I don't do much because some of us younger guy look up to you guys that can do great brush work & want to keep it going. Technology will change but brush work will always stay the same!!!!!! So keep it up & pass it along.
-------------------- Paul Vartanian Paul Vartanian Signs 8 Lord Terrace, Woburn, MA 01801 617-780-7684 Posts: 16 | From: Woburn, MA | Registered: Nov 2005
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