posted
Recently found some interesting numbers comparing fuel costs per million BTUs using various fuels. Thought you all might find it interesting.
Have plugged in local prices on each.
Fuel oil @2.599 / gal.---$23.72 Hardwood @ $150 full cord---$8.57 LP Gas @ $2.50 gal.---$35.58 Coal @ $240 ton---$12.34
Natural gas not available here. Pellets--no current price, and availability problematic because of short supply. Electric--no current price, but among the most expensive.
Back in '78 we replaced a totally inadequate oil furnace with what was called a multi-fuel furnace. (This was in between the two oil embargoes) Oil burner on one end, and a firebox for wood or coal on the other. Common heat exchanger for both, and separate thermostats for each. 'Stat on the wood/coal side controls air damper.
Burned wood for quite a while after the embargo of '79--eventually oil prices adjusted to everything else, and the hassle of wood burning wasn't worth it. Then along came Katrina and all her friends and now the hassle is suddenly worth it again. As near as I can figure, burning coal and wood should run about half for the heating season compared to burning fuel oil alone.
FWIW.
bill preston
-------------------- Bill Preston Fly Creek, N.Y. USA Posts: 943 | From: Fly Creek, N.Y. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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been a long time since i bought coal...when i lived in pa....50's my parent used to get it for $7 A TON!!!!! 1979 i reserected the old 27" coal funace in the basement...and i got coal dilivered for $20-25 a ton. we hada big building to heat it was basement(no heat)3 story's above that...to heat...no insulation(house was built in 1924)so 15-20 TONS was a good winters burn.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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I've found that a long sleeved shirt and long pants get me through the hardest winters Florida has to offer. The Farmer's Almanac predicts this winter will fall between February 12th and the 23rd. A full three days longer than last winter.
Usually, when it gets too cold to bear, I'll close a few windows.
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We have a gas well down below our barn. So it's free for me.
Thinking about installing a natural gas generator to offset the electric costs in the summer so I can run the A/C without worring haw much it spins the KW meter.
-------------------- Mark Neurohr "Ernest" Paintin' Place 141 Sunnyside Road Kittanning, PA 16201
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wow you have like a gas well???? can ya bottle it and sell it??? so i bet you did't stand above it and smoke...ya know when you did smoke. btw...good job in quiting that nasty habit!!!
-------------------- Karyn Bush Simply Not Ordinary, LLC Bartlett, NH 603-383-9955 www.snosigns.com info@snosigns.com Posts: 3516 | From: Bartlett, NH USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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the dairy farm i lived at in pa. had 3-4 wellheads on the property. everything at the house was NATURAL GAS right down to the old i think they was called BUTTERFLY LIGHTS....had a gas pipe up the wall and this thing swung out away from the wall about 18-20" and you lite it and it was used for LIGHT !! it had 2 flames sorta like butterflys wings... gas stove, each room had a old ceramic gas heater(we got one here at this house was here when it was built in 1961)we had GAS REFRIDGERATOR, FREEZERS.....last i heard they stopped givin the new owners free gas.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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We're heating with wood only. Could go and cut it ourselves and spend only gas for the power saw, but we're too lazy, so we usuallly figure out some deal with a neighbor and have enough dumped in our yard to last for a winter or two.
We had an outdoor wood funace at our other house and I miss it. Once installed, it can heat two houses and every other building in the yard by pumping hot water around. No smoke in the house, no fire hazard, fill only twice a day.
Got natural gas at the shop. Definitely too expensive!
posted
Wheat stoves are the big craze here right now. There is a waiting list until March for them. I'm not sure what the exact figures are, but they say it is 1/4 the price of natural gas. Sad when our food is worth so little we save more by burning it than selling it.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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My inlaws have three hundred acres of woods so we get all the wood we want for free. And with oil bills averaging around four hundred dollars every time a truck drives buy I guess that the chain saw is going to get a lot more work.
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...I just bought my third and fourth cords of wood (for this winter) at $110 each. I also just filled my 1927 vintage furnaces oil tank for $490. I have a city gas heater too, but I can't afford to use it much this year. (!)
...Hopefully SOLAR heat will be feasable someday soon.
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We have 2 heating systems here at the shop, we have a conventional boiler with radiant heat in the floor that takes care of the office than n the shop areas we have a hot air furnace that burns waste oil ( oil from cars equipment, trucks etc..)
At home I burn wood cause the electric heat is really expensive.
A cord of dry hard wood is well over $200.00 here right now.
-------------------- Jake Lyman Lyman Signs 45 State Road Phillipston, MA 01331 Posts: 635 | From: Phillipston, MA | Registered: Sep 2002
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We heat the house & shop with wood. Jon has permission to cut all he wnats on local property, & it sure helps! I have to say, tho, he sure works his hinie off to get it.
-------------------- The Word in Signs Bobbie Rochow Jamestown, PA 16134
724-927-6471
thewordinsigns@alltel.net Posts: 3485 | From: Jamestown, PA 16134 | Registered: Oct 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Kelly Thorson: Wheat stoves are the big craze here right now. There is a waiting list until March for them. I'm not sure what the exact figures are, but they say it is 1/4 the price of natural gas. Sad when our food is worth so little we save more by burning it than selling it.
There *is* an abundance of food.. look at all the Americans getting fat, which is now spreading to other countries and cultures.
The wine market in France is so sour (how punny of me.. heh) and oversaturated they've started researching how to use wine as fuel for their cars!!
W.R., Solar heating is viable TODAY but houses have become subjected to rules and layouts of subdivisions and "modern" construction techniques, not to mention houses are now status symbols where the bigger the better regardless of how much square footage is completely wasted which also means substantially more energy required to heat and cool. If houses were still built of stone (passive thermal mass heating and cooling built right in) built at a reasonable size and also oriented on properties to utilize the phases of the sun (southern facing windows and lots of them), a great deal of heat could be extracted from direct sunlight without ever thinking about electrical solar panels.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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I have the cheapest heat source around. I trenched a copper tube over to my neighbors propane tank and tapped into his underground copper line, and then tapped that into the copper tube that runs from my propane tank into my house.
I went out and bought a new car with the savings!
Just kiddin! I'm running off propane and the company I deal with lets you put a yearly cap on the seasons fuel price by signing a form and giving them a $35 dollar check each year.
The first year I did it, I was lucky in that that was the first year home heating costs skyrocketed. I figured that I saved about $700 by paying my $35 season *cap* fee. Been doing it every year since.
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All the people using wood now, i am afraid they are gonna all run out & chop down all the trees!!!!
We were in Tractor Supply before Christmas, & I heard the cashier tell a guy that they had a waiting list of 30 names waiting for pellets. That would be awful to be on that list waiting for your fuel to come in!
-------------------- The Word in Signs Bobbie Rochow Jamestown, PA 16134
724-927-6471
thewordinsigns@alltel.net Posts: 3485 | From: Jamestown, PA 16134 | Registered: Oct 2002
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I pay a monthly "budget" amount to my natural gas provider, TW Phillips. It has now risen to $250 per month, year-round. I keep the thermostat at 60º at night and during the day while I'm at work. When we're at home I set it at 65º. I have not used the gas heater in my garage since last winter, and have swapped stickers for the use of heated commercial garages when I actually do have to letter a vehicle. I've been painting signs on my diningroom table too. The cost of gas is increasing again, and I guess we'll all have to start wearing long johns. They have changed their policy at the gas company, and if you are over 10 days late paying your bill, they WILL shut off your gas. Elderly? Sick? It doesn't matter. Love....Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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quote: The cost of gas is increasing again, and I guess we'll all have to start wearing long johns. They have changed their policy at the gas company, and if you are over 10 days late paying your bill, they WILL shut off your gas. Elderly? Sick? It doesn't matter.
God bless America....not
-------------------- Snow's Sign Works 865-908-0076 snowman@planetc.com www.snowsigns.com
I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message... Posts: 1640 | From: Sevierville, TN | Registered: Jul 2005
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Get this,here we are bitchin about the high costs of fuel and yet most don't flintch to fork out $1.29 for "Pure French Sparkling Spring Water"! THAT'S FIVE DOLLARS AND SIXTEEN CENTS PER GALLON!
Call me what you want, but I bought a Brita Water Filter Container for something like fifteen bucks. It makes "Pure French Sparkling Spring Water" for MONTHS on a seven dollar cartridge.
-------------------- Mark Neurohr "Ernest" Paintin' Place 141 Sunnyside Road Kittanning, PA 16201
posted
Some folks around here went the prepaid/lock in a price for their oil with some small outfit. The man had a good reputation, so his customers felt safe. Something went wrong, and the company folded, or he disappeared, and the prepaid customers were left not only without their oil, but out their money, and had to throw good money after bad to get oil from another dealer.
Then there was another dealer offering prepaid/lock in the price, who socked their customers with a surcharge of $178 after the first delivery, or so the story went. That one lost a few customers.
WR, $110 per face cord, or full cord?
And Jake, hardwood would have to hit almost $450 a full cord to equal the cost of fuel oil here for the same amount of heat.
OP, I'm old enough to remember coal at $7 a ton too, and fuel oil at 17 cents/gallon. The reduced buying power of the dollar over the years is scary. Probably only going to get worse.
bill preston
Just noticed Ernest's water post. We do use bottled water for drinking, coffee making, but not at that price. More like 79 cents/gallon. Our well water is very "hard" and fails every mineral content test known to man.
[ January 02, 2006, 07:35 PM: Message edited by: Bill Preston ]
-------------------- Bill Preston Fly Creek, N.Y. USA Posts: 943 | From: Fly Creek, N.Y. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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Well, if I lived in in the LA harbor I'd be hanging around a Perrier tanker too given the condition of the water there.
I also buy water but it's R.O. at 75 cents per 5 gallon jug (self fill-up), 50 gazillion times better than bottled or filtered tap, only distilled water is more pure but it's not available in self service dispensers around here.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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Our natural gas went from 8.99/mcf to 12.49/mcf last month. We pay the budget amount where you pay the same year round & they adjust it periodically. It's $110/month. That heats the shop, the house, runs the water heater & the stove.
Jill, you have got to get a more efficient furnace & insulate the heck outta your place.
As for water, I pay 69 cents a gallon (for dogs & Bill's coffee) cause our well water is icky. Tried the faucet filter thing, but at $20/filter and at best 1.5 weeks outta it, it was more expensive than buying water.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Up here in the Great White North, fuel bills are a matter of daily discussion (and disgust!)...with a 111 year old building of 4300 sq. ft., we run two natural gas furnaces at an average cost of $4000.00/year. Just replaced one furnace at a cost of 3500.00. Insurance Co. won't allow us to burn wood...Fire Dept. said they might be slow arriving in case of a fire 'cause they'd have to stop to get the marshmallows. So, how is the sign market in Florida? MUR
-------------------- Murray MacDonald OldTime Signs 529 Third Ave S Kenora, ON. P9N 1Y3 oldtimesigns@gokenora.com Posts: 781 | From: Kenora, ON | Registered: Jan 2003
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you wont be able to make the FUEL BILLS!!!!!!(income) over abundance of plotters and people who dont like the cold...(i wasnt one of them)hehehehehehehehehehehehehe
[ January 03, 2006, 02:54 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Firewood is $325 a bush (full) cord here in Central Ontario. We have radiant heat using propane (no natural as out in the country).
I did however make sure that whatever heat was in here, stayed in here. I created a second 2x6 wall inside the first 2x6 walls in the 105 year old church and filled them with R42 Rocksol insulation. We also have R60 in the attic.
I'm hoping this will at least make the most of the heat we have. We also run a Tempcast masonry fireplace that radiates heat slowly from 1 fire for up to15 hours on one fire.
warm and cuddly monk
-------------------- Sandy "Monk" Baird Windwalker Sign Studio Port Colborne, Ontario L3K 4H9 Posts: 442 | From: Port Colborne, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jun 2004
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we(that would mainly be my hubby)cut and stacked about 5 to 6 cord of wood...we have over 8 acres with plenty of trees so that will never be an issue...my idea of wood heat is "wood you like me to turn up the thermostat?" i do however keep the thing running during the day. we have a wood boiler...if that isn't enough the oil kicks in.
last year we decided to spend the $ and get the total water purification system with reverse osmosis. i love it, as we had sooo much iron in our water b4 that it would make our toilets, dishwasher, sinks etc stained! not to mention not being able to drink it from the tap. now everything is clean...and since i drink a gallon a day i totally appreciate it! it is amazing what we spend our money on eh?
geesh jill i didn't know they would shut off peoples heat...i don't think they can do that in nh.
[ January 03, 2006, 05:27 PM: Message edited by: KARYN BUSH ]
-------------------- Karyn Bush Simply Not Ordinary, LLC Bartlett, NH 603-383-9955 www.snosigns.com info@snosigns.com Posts: 3516 | From: Bartlett, NH USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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My gas bill for a very large two bed, two bath apartment is about 50 to 70 bucks per month. But, the apartment to the top next door is switched with meters to mine. We are getting opposite bills! I got one that was $130 last month for November, so I started paying attention and found out it didn't stay straightened out with the gas company. They owe me the difference. My bill actually should come out at $45 because I keep the heat off and hang up almost all of our clothing. Hot showers are the exception. I have a heating pad in the bed and usually dress very warm with silkie long johns and sweatshirts during the day! We keep moving and never have the heat above 58, with lots of rugs and blankets around the doors. The windows in the bedrooms have woolen blankets on them, and even if it's not pretty, their awesome. Now, I can use the savings to pay other bills. I wish I had a fireplace, but, you know gas heat is wonderfully clean so I like it too.
-------------------- Deb Fowler
"It's kind of fun to do the impossible - Walt Disney (1901-1966) Posts: 5373 | From: Loves Park, Illinois | Registered: Aug 1999
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Hey, there, Monk, I wish I had thought of putting an inside wall...unfortunately, time dictated that we move in and keep the shop going while renovating. Have done MUCH insulating, gap filling etc. and things are getting better, but we ain't never gonna need an air exchanger! See you in July. MUR
-------------------- Murray MacDonald OldTime Signs 529 Third Ave S Kenora, ON. P9N 1Y3 oldtimesigns@gokenora.com Posts: 781 | From: Kenora, ON | Registered: Jan 2003
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THURSDAY JAN 5, 2005 natural gas prices dropped to PRE-KATRINA prices!!!!!! imagine that.... news says there is a SURPLUS of it now, because the cold weather they THOUGHT was gona make them money....DIDNT HAPPEN!!!! FRICKEN THIVES!!!!! now with the drop in price, from $15 to less then $10 they want to lull uses into USING MORE NATURAL GAS... then the will jack it.....
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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-------------------- Frank Magoo, Magoo's-Las Vegas; fmagoo@netzero.com "the only easy day was yesterday" Posts: 2365 | From: Las Vegas, Nv. | Registered: Jun 2003
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where wayne lives, the trees are growin in the house, eliminates the loadib truck, stack, and carrin out the ashes....hehehehehehehehhe
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Whaddaya mean Joe....I live IN a tree.... I enjoy cutting the wood, stacking and splitting etc....and I need the exercise.
If you want to see a primitive lookin' shack, and you're ever in Panama City sometime, go to to the city museum. They have my great, great grandpa's log cabin on display. Archaeologists catalogued and moved it there from northern Holmes County.
The fireplace and chimney were made of clay. My dad took me to the old homeplace where it once stood and remnants of the old chimney were still there. Dad referred to it as a "stick and dirt" chimney.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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